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#4
#4
n_huffhines said:
It sucks. I'd love to live there, but politicians have ruined the state. I feel bad for all the people who feel compelled to leave because their leadership has failed them.
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More of a philosophical question than soecific to this instance, but is it a failure of leadership when that leadership is constantly elected?

Take your pick of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Or fool me once shame on you, fool me for 40 years straight, shame on me.

At this point you cant blame the politicians, especially with the incumbency rate. People are responsible for who they elect. It's why I believe the "supporters" of someone should be their biggest critics. If that happened you at least have a chance to get something different to happen. Especially if you keep holding the standard.
 
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#5
#5
LouderVol said:
More of a philosophical question than soecific to this instance, but is it a failure of leadership when that leadership is constantly elected?

Take your pick of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Or fool me once shame on you, fool me for 40 years straight, shame on me.

At this point you cant blame the politicians, especially with the incumbency rate. People are responsible for who they elect. It's why I believe the "supporters" of someone should be their biggest critics. If that happened you at least have a chance to get something different to happen. Especially if you keep holding the standard.
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It's not a failure of leadership because the leaders are doing exactly what they were elected to do. IMO CA needs to be broken up into 2 or 3 different states.
 
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#6
#6
LouderVol said:
More of a philosophical question than soecific to this instance, but is it a failure of leadership when that leadership is constantly elected?

Take your pick of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Or fool me once shame on you, fool me for 40 years straight, shame on me.

At this point you cant blame the politicians, especially with the incumbency rate. People are responsible for who they elect. It's why I believe the "supporters" of someone should be their biggest critics. If that happened you at least have a chance to get something different to happen. Especially if you keep holding the standard.
Click to expand...

I think if people voted more for Republicans, it just would've slowed the process down a little bit. It's not like they're pumping out small-government conservatives there (or anywhere). I blame the inherent problems in government moreso than I blame Californians. I don't blame Californians anymore than I blame anybody who is voting for the lesser of 2 evils.

California's biggest problems are that it's a very attractive state with representative government with a population the size of a country. Politicians are going to take advantage of the fact that people want to be there no matter what the government does. Politicians are going to run up the debt. Etc.

California has more people and less debt than Canada. The US owes $75k per capita and CA only owes $14k per capita. These are just problems inherent with 2-party government and a large population.
 
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#7
#7
n_huffhines said:
I think if people voted more for Republicans, it just would've slowed the process down a little bit. It's not like they're pumping out small-government conservatives there (or anywhere). I blame the inherent problems in government moreso than I blame Californians. I don't blame Californians anymore than I blame anybody who is voting for the lesser of 2 evils.

California's biggest problems are that it's a very attractive state with representative government with a population the size of a country. Politicians are going to take advantage of the fact that people want to be there no matter what the government does. Politicians are going to run up the debt. Etc.

California has more people and less debt than Canada. The US owes $75k per capita and CA only owes $14k per capita. These are just problems inherent with 2-party government and a large population.
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How does CA’s $14k per capita compare to the other states?
 
#8
#8
Carl Pickens said:
How does CA’s $14k per capita compare to the other states?
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Poorly. It's the most attractive state (in terms of non-government factors), hence its large population, which enables runaway government. It's a microcosm of our national government. The US is the most attractive country, hence its large population and runaway government.
 
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#10
#10
n_huffhines said:
I think if people voted more for Republicans, it just would've slowed the process down a little bit. It's not like they're pumping out small-government conservatives there (or anywhere). I blame the inherent problems in government moreso than I blame Californians. I don't blame Californians anymore than I blame anybody who is voting for the lesser of 2 evils.

California's biggest problems are that it's a very attractive state with representative government with a population the size of a country. Politicians are going to take advantage of the fact that people want to be there no matter what the government does. Politicians are going to run up the debt. Etc.

California has more people and less debt than Canada. The US owes $75k per capita and CA only owes $14k per capita. These are just problems inherent with 2-party government and a large population.
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Doesnt matter the letter next to their name. As long as people continue to vote for whatever is the problem in their particular area they have some of the blame.

Democracy does not remove any of the responsibility for the end actions the elected for those who voted for them.
 
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#11
#11
LouderVol said:
Doesnt matter the letter next to their name. As long as people continue to vote for whatever is the problem in their particular area they have some of the blame.

Democracy does not remove any of the responsibility for the end actions the elected for those who voted for them.
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Yeah, nobody's absolving them of all the blame but I can't agree with the last statement. I voted for W and I'm not fully responsible for everything he did. It's an inherent problem with democracy that whoever I vote for (or don't vote for) is going to do things I disagree with. Of course this fact removes some of the responsibility from me.
 
#12
#12
n_huffhines said:
Yeah, nobody's absolving them of all the blame but I can't agree with the last statement. I voted for W and I'm not fully responsible for everything he did. It's an inherent problem with democracy that whoever I vote for (or don't vote for) is going to do things I disagree with. Of course this fact removes some of the responsibility from me.
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It's only an issue if you continue to vote that way. So in your case voting for W the second time would be on you. The politicians take advantage, shame on them, but then it's up to the people to recognize and move on. If you dont attempt to fix the problem you become part of it once you know about it.

You can still vote R or D, but there is no reason you are held to the particular scum bag in power.
 
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#13
#13
LouderVol said:
More of a philosophical question than soecific to this instance, but is it a failure of leadership when that leadership is constantly elected?

Take your pick of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Or fool me once shame on you, fool me for 40 years straight, shame on me.

At this point you cant blame the politicians, especially with the incumbency rate. People are responsible for who they elect. It's why I believe the "supporters" of someone should be their biggest critics. If that happened you at least have a chance to get something different to happen. Especially if you keep holding the standard.
Click to expand...

Completely agree. The people are to blame. Problrm is that people don't care in the big cities and the smaller towns, they dont have enough representation.
 
#18
#18
n_huffhines said:
I think if people voted more for Republicans, it just would've slowed the process down a little bit. It's not like they're pumping out small-government conservatives there (or anywhere). I blame the inherent problems in government moreso than I blame Californians. I don't blame Californians anymore than I blame anybody who is voting for the lesser of 2 evils.

California's biggest problems are that it's a very attractive state with representative government with a population the size of a country. Politicians are going to take advantage of the fact that people want to be there no matter what the government does. Politicians are going to run up the debt. Etc.

California has more people and less debt than Canada. The US owes $75k per capita and CA only owes $14k per capita. These are just problems inherent with 2-party government and a large population.
Click to expand...

Is comparing a country and the obligations of a country to a state really apples to apples? How about add on California's per capita share of national debt then redo the analysis.
 
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#19
#19
volinbham said:
Is comparing a country and the obligations of a country to a state really apples to apples? How about add on California's per capita share of national debt then redo the analysis.
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Riiight...add on their 75k for every human, in our most populous state, then the highest per capita state debt in the US as well, THEN we can see how great those voters and policies have been.
 
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