Most overrated college coaches

[Boston Vol]

Still waiting for that list of ten coaches.....

 

[VFL-82-JP]

If you just watch Jim Harbaugh coaches teams (just like watching Nick Saban or Urban Meyer teams) you can tell how good of a coach he is. It's why it's beyond silly to argue this whole "ONLY SALARY MATTERS" argument.

Now you sound a bit like D4H. You doing the "he passes the looks-good test" on us?

 

[99gator]

Thirteen years as head coach. You're missing some in your count. Three at SDSU, four at Stanford, four in the NFL, and 2nd year running at Michigan. That = 13. Not 6, not 10.

I'm absolutely willing to admit points well made, and you've made one here. He did accomplish a great deal at Stanford, it being Stanford and all. So kudos to him. he never won a championship there, not even a conference championship, but he raised a Vandy-esque program from the dead.

That doesn't mean he's a miracle worker. Did you know that he's only the 9th-best coach Stanford ever had, by win %? Pop Warner was the best, of course (71-17-8, .781), but there were also guys like John Ralston, David Shaw, Bill Walsh, and Tyrone Willingham higher in the win column than Harbaugh. A total of eight other coaches out-performed him there.

So let's not make TOO huge a deal of it. He's a good coach. But he's over-rated today, based on his salary.

Hard to win a college football national championship while coaching in the NFL.

He also did not coach at San Diego State. He coached at San Diego...which is not Division 1.

I only counted his Division 1 jobs and this is his 6th season as a D1 college coach

 

[zjcvols]

Still waiting for that list of ten coaches.....

Still waiting on if Butch Jones is overrated since he hasn't earned the same accolades as those in his pay bracket.

 

[zjcvols]

Now you sound a bit like D4H. You doing the "he passes the looks-good test" on us?

You refuse to listen to facts and established perspective most people would agree with me and others on, so I figured why the hell not.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

If you just watch Jim Harbaugh coaches teams (just like watching Nick Saban or Urban Meyer teams) you can tell how good of a coach he is. It's why it's beyond silly to argue this whole "ONLY SALARY MATTERS" argument.

p.s. Never said "only salary matters." I said that is one objective way of measuring coaches and whether they're over-rated. One way. There are certainly others.

I wouldn't be so silly as to say he "looks good on the sideline," but that's just me.

Based on that one objective method, Harbaugh is significantly over-rated. He's had somewhat less than Les Miles' success, and is being paid at a Nick Saban rate. == Over-rated.

 

[bamawriter]

If that's how we are judging coaches then yes I would agree. Unlike our fellow friend here, that's not how I judge college football coaches because it's a silly argument.

FYI: I think Butch Jones is properly rated.

I'm definitely not saying that Harbaugh isn't a fantastic college coach. I think he has expectations that are totally within his grasp. But he's living off expectations that are currently beyond his results.

 

[zjcvols]

Hard to win a college football national championship while coaching in the NFL.

He also did not coach at San Diego State. He coached at San Diego...which is not Division 1.

I only counted his Division 1 jobs and this is his 6th season as a D1 college coach

Also led that school to its first ever conference title in his second year.

 

[zjcvols]

I'm definitely not saying that Harbaugh isn't a fantastic college coach. I think he has expectations that are totally within his grasp. But he's living off expectations that are currently beyond his results.

I'm going to disagree with you on that one because of his NFL results but I do get what you are saying.

 

[zjcvols]

Still waiting on that list of ten college coaches better than Harbaugh.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Harbaugh didn't coach at San Diego State. He coached at San Diego, which isn't in FBS.

My bad, you're right, USD, not SDSU. Still, college head coach.

 

[zjcvols]

p.s. Never said "only salary matters." I said that is one objective way of measuring coaches and whether they're over-rated. One way. There are certainly others.

I wouldn't be so silly as to say he "looks good on the sideline," but that's just me.

Based on that one objective method, Harbaugh is significantly over-rated. He's had somewhat less than Les Miles' success, and is being paid at a Nick Saban rate. == Over-rated.

Except you are leaving out a significant portion of his coaching profile, which is his NFL resume, in which he had the third best record during his four year run in the NFL.

 

[99gator]

If I were to list guys seriously that I could even attempt to make an argument for.....just to play devil's advocate.....

Saban
Meyer
Fisher
Stoops
Dabo
D'Antonio

You could make an argument for Herman, but he's been a college coach for 5 seconds and hasn't accomplished what Harbaugh has.

That's it. And that's a devil's advocate argument. I would take Harbaugh over most of those I mentioned.

 

[99gator]

The other thing I have to mention is that his salary is what it is because he's the only coach anywhere who is as coveted at the NFL level as he is at the college level.

Whether due to age or other reasons, there aren't any college head coaches the NFL is drooling over. The NFL doesn't want Dabo. They don't want Jimbo. They don't want Big Game Bob. They don't want Saban either.

So, Michigan had to pay him a salary competitive not only to what he was worth in the NCAA market, but in the NFL market as well.




Not that any of that speaks to his skills as a head coach or anything.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

You refuse to listen to facts and established perspective most people would agree with me and others on, so I figured why the hell not.

You seem to think one or two others agree with you in this thread and that means your weaker argument has merit.

It doesn't.

You have not yet responded to the central point of my original post, which outlined an objective method of comparing all current coaches' value to their performance. Pay to championships. Really simple. And you haven't yet taken the first step to refute it.

You have failed to acknowledge that a handful of other college coaches, who all make less (most millions less per year) have accomplished more in the college game. In other words, they all won national titles.

Meanwhile, you want to dissemble.

You bring up Butch, trying to change the subject away from the central argument. Because you were losing it, badly, on the facts.

All you had left was your own D4H-like eye test. You know he's a great coach because you look at his (non-championship-winning) teams. Okay.

And you want me to play the sucker bet of naming other coaches I think more of than Harbaugh. You know that every person reading this thread recognizes that as a sucker's trap. I name 10 guys I like, and it doesn't matter who they are. Now you get to flip the table, get away from the argument you were losing, and open a whole new game that you might get a chance to win.

It's a stooge move, and I'm not falling for it.

So back to the central point, which you have never refuted. There are five active college coaches who have won national titles. Four of them earn significantly less than Harbaugh. By that measure, the man is significantly over-rated.

It really is a simple point, and non-refutable.

 

[zjcvols]

You seem to think one or two others agree with you in this thread and that means your weaker argument has merit.

It doesn't.

You have not yet responded to the central point of my original post, which outlined an objective method of comparing all current coaches' value to their performance. Pay to championships. Really simple. And you haven't yet taken the first step to refute it.

You have failed to acknowledge that a handful of other college coaches, who all make less (most millions less per year) have accomplished more in the college game. In other words, they all won national titles.

Meanwhile, you want to dissemble.

You bring up Butch, trying to change the subject away from the central argument. Because you were losing it, badly, on the facts.

All you had left was your own D4H-like eye test. You know he's a great coach because you look at his (non-championship-winning) teams. Okay.

And you want me to play the sucker bet of naming other coaches I think more of than Harbaugh. You know that every person reading this thread recognizes that as a sucker's trap. I name 10 guys I like, and it doesn't matter who they are. Now you get to flip the table, get away from the argument you were losing, and open a whole new game that you might get a chance to win.

It's a stooge move, and I'm not falling for it.

So back to the central point, which you have never refuted. There are five active college coaches who have won national titles. Four of them earn significantly less than Harbaugh. By that measure, the man is significantly over-rated.

It really is a simple point, and non-refutable.

Fine.

Jim Harbaugh was won one NFL conference championship. All college football coaches combined have won exactly zero. Hence Jim Harbaugh deserves to be the one of the highest paid coaches in college football since no other college football coach currently can match his NFL accolades.

 

[zjcvols]

I said from the beginning that you are right, Harbaugh doesn't have a national title, but that no coach in college football can match his NFL accolades (which is 100% fact) and should be paid like a top five coach, especially since multiple NFL teams wanted his services when Michigan went after him.

Also, you brought up ten coaches better than Harbaugh. YOU brought up that coaches should be judge on salaries among their peers, hence I asked about Butch Jones.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Fine.

Jim Harbaugh was won one NFL conference championship. All college football coaches combined have won exactly zero. Hence Jim Harbaugh deserves to be the one of the highest paid coaches in college football since no other college football coach currently can match his NFL accolades.

No, that would mean he deserves to be the highest-paid college coach switching to the NFL ranks (assuming a lot of these guys were trying to make the leap to the NFL). Because that's the place where he won that NFL conference championship. That doesn't mean he's won at the college level, or even could. And we're talking about what coaches are over-rated at the college level.

If Harbaugh wants to stop being over-rated, he has two choices: win a college national title. Or ask for his salary to be reduced (heh, fat chance of that). Short of one of those, he's over-rated by this one objective measure.

 

[zjcvols]

No, that would mean he deserves to be the highest-paid college coach switching to the NFL ranks. Because that's the place where he won that NFL conference championship. That doesn't mean he's won at the college level, or even could. And we're talking about what coaches are over-rated at the college level.

If Harbaugh wants to stop being over-rated, he has two choices: win a college national title. Or ask for his salary to be reduced (heh, fat chance of that). Short of one of those, he's over-rated by this one objective measure.

Except he's won at the college level. He took two programs to heights it has never been.

Harbaugh isn't overrated, except by you on just one factor which doesn't prove anything about his coaching ability other than the commodity he is.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Okay, so I'm beginning to understand you better now. You see Harbaugh as an awesome NFL coach who is bound to achieve greatness in the college game.

Meanwhile, I see Harbaugh as a very good coach who hasn't yet proven he can win the Big Game (at either level).

I get your perspective, though there's a significant amount of Faith (or Hope) involved. My perspective, on the other hand, is more Bah Humbugish, forcing Harbaugh to prove it before I hand him any flowers.

Okay, there's room for us to disagree this way. I can live with that. We won't know which of us is right until he retires or wins a national title. I'm willing to wait and see who was right.

 

[99gator]

In theory, you have it kind of backward though.

Is Les Miles being paid because of what he currently brings to the table or because of his past performance? So, what is really going on is that you are overpaying now for what you underpaid for then.

There isn't anyone alive who would trade Harbaugh for Miles. Not a damn soul.

So, past performance is kind of irrelevant in terms of salary. You are paying someone (or should be in purely theoretical terms) for what they can do today and what they will do tomorrow.

This is exactly why Gene Chizik isn't a head coach. It's why Mack Brown was asked to leave. It's why Tennessee fired Phil Fulmer. It's why Miami fired Larry Coker.

Because of recent retirements and firings, there isn't a coach in the ACC or SEC who have done jack squat outside of Les Miles, Nick Saban, Dabo, and Fisher. Everyone else hasn't done a damn thing. Well, Gus has an SEC title. So, Gus too.

Professional teams do this all the time. They pay top free agent price for what a player did for his prime only to see his numbers decline as he enters his 30's.

However, this is all theoretical crap.

As others in this thread pointed out, name the coaches you would rather have on your sideline than Harbaugh. We all know how short the list is.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Except he's won at the college level. He took two programs to heights it has never been.

Stanford has been significantly higher in its program life.

It claims national titles from Pop Warner and Clark Shaughnessy's tenures (1926 and 1940). It has won 15 conference titles under a variety of coaches (none named Harbaugh).

Yes, Stanford has had Vandyesque decades. It has also had championship decades.

Harbaugh did not take Stanford to the Mountain. He merely got them way up the slope. Kind of like Butch is doing for Tennessee right now.

Maybe Butch is Harbaugh, 10 years younger....

 

[99gator]

Stanford has been significantly higher in its program life.

It claims national titles from Pop Warner and Clark Shaughnessy's tenures (1926 and 1940). It has won 15 conference titles under a variety of coaches (none named Harbaugh).

Yes, Stanford has had Vandyesque decades. It has also had championship decades.

Harbaugh did not take Stanford to the Mountain. He merely got them way up the slope. Kind of like Butch is doing for Tennessee right now.

Maybe Butch is Harbaugh, 10 years younger....

Sweet mother of pearl.

 

[Boston Vol]

Stanford has been significantly higher in its program life.

It claims national titles from Pop Warner and Clark Shaughnessy's tenures (1926 and 1940). It has won 15 conference titles under a variety of coaches (none named Harbaugh).

Yes, Stanford has had Vandyesque decades. It has also had championship decades.

Harbaugh did not take Stanford to the Mountain. He merely got them way up the slope. Kind of like Butch is doing for Tennessee right now.

Maybe Butch is Harbaugh, 10 years younger....

Butch is Harbaugh, just 10 years younger? Thanks for providing me that laugh I needed.

 

[white65]

His rep has taken a hit after Michigan, but Rich Rod was up there. He's only one or two good years at Arizona away from getting another high level job too.