Most underachieving Vols of all time?

#76
#76
WesternKyVol said:
Absolutely. His accomplishments are VERY underappreciated. I really don't get it. He had as good of a career at UT as Bogans and Prince did at UK, and yet those two are beloved. Some fans expected him to do be some amalgamation of Allan Houston and Vince Carter, and he just didn't have that much talent. But his career accomplishments are significant.
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I agree, I was just clarifying. I never said anything about VY so wwas trying to make sure I know what you disagreed with
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#77
#77
WesternKyVol said:
Why do you think we call talent, "talent"? It came from that parable. That is the historical Christian interpretation of the story!

However, I agree that Jesus was probably talking about things we could do that directly serve God, probably not basketball.
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That is exactly right! It is about faithfulness to God with what He gives you. Talent is a form of currency in the parable, but can pertain to actual talents,money, time exactly. The point is MHF is in left field using it about bball, especially when players underachieve for many reasons(injuries, coaching, their talent was overhyped, etc) It isn't always a matter of a player not being faithful with his abilities. The lesson is that God honors faithfulness above results. Sorry, don't mean to preach, but I am a pastor so it's kind of a habit.
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#78
#78
Andy Kelly. Sure, he quarterbacked UT to two SEC titles, but look at them. He had to share one of them with a couple of teams from a state that ranks 49th in education, and he only won the second one because Florida was cheating. He needed a miracle comeback just to beat Notre Dame one out of two. Couldn't even get us to a Citrus Bowl, let alone win one. We had to settle for those crummy Cotton, Sugar and Fiesta bowls, and he actually lost one of those lousy bowls, and barely won the other two!

Why, if he could have only accomplished as much at UT as that Manning guy did in the mid-1990s...
 
#79
#79
jsc1973 said:
Andy Kelly. Sure, he quarterbacked UT to two SEC titles, but look at them. He had to share one of them with a couple of teams from a state that ranks 49th in education, and he only won the second one because Florida was cheating. He needed a miracle comeback just to beat Notre Dame one out of two. Couldn't even get us to a Citrus Bowl, let alone win one. We had to settle for those crummy Cotton, Sugar and Fiesta bowls, and he actually lost one of those lousy bowls, and barely won the other two!

Why, if he could have only accomplished as much at UT as that Manning guy did in the mid-1990s...
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But did he have anywhere near the talent Manning did? I don't think he did, I think Kelly had a solid career here. That comeback at ND shouldn't be devalued at all. ND was a power at that time, and it was in South Bend. He should get a lot of credit for that win and it was a phenomenal win either way. The Sugar Bowl win, The Cotton Bowl win, Auburn, Florida.... He had some good wins and solid career
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#80
#80
If God made me 6'6 and gave me a 42 inch vertical, I would be wasting the talent He gave me if I lacked the discipline to learn to dribble under control on the way to the rim. Michael Jordan was cut from his high school team, but he also developed an awesome fade away jumper while in the NBA through an amazing amount of hard work.

I want Hopson to stay because I think he is incredibly talented. Tobias Harris is a combination of immense talent and extremely hard work. Lofton, Jujuan Smith etc all took their gifts and worked incredibly hard.

The parable of the talents is about taking whatever you are entrusted with as a steward of the master (God giving you time, natural abilities etc.) and doing your very best with it. "To whom much is given, much will be required." A person who is given 3 talents can take that and increase it to 5 talents and then compare themselves to the person who started with 1 and made 1.5 more and think they are doing twice as well. That is not what God perceives.

You guys may disagree, I think you can absolutely serve God through excellence in sports. And for the guy who is 6'6 with the 42 inch vertical, if he also has an IQ of 170, he may want to apply his talents in designing a new rocket for private space flight. If the same guy has an IQ in the average range? He should apply himself in the area where God has given him extreme gifting.

This captures it well: Sample for Home Page of Preaching Great Text
In the motion picture, Chariots of Fire, there is an unforgettable scene and line about deciding between what one has to do and what one is called to do. The story is about the 1924 Olympic games and a Scottish runner named Eric Liddell. Liddell is the son of a minister. He's a theological student at the University of Edinburgh, preparing to be a missionary. But he can run, and to compete in the Olympics, he must discontinue his theological studies in order to train properly. The scene I will never forget occurs on a windswept hilltop…Arthur's Seat, I believe, in Edinburgh. Liddell and his sister are talking about his decision. She is arguing that he ought to forget about running and listen to God's call to the mission field. Liddell replies, "I believe God made me for a purpose; but he also made me fast. And when I run I feel his pleasure. To give it up would be to hold him in contempt; to win is to honor him."

So Liddell decides to run—to feel the pleasure of God, to honor God by running. The reason the movie was made was Liddell's decision to drop out of the 100-meter dash because the event was scheduled for Sunday, and his strict Scottish sabbatarianism would not allow it. Coaches, politicians, teammates, even British royalty, tried to persuade him to run, but he would not budge. Finally, a teammate, Harold Abrahams, who was Jewish and the British 400-meter champion, suggested that he and Liddell swap events. Liddell agreed and entered the 400, a very different and obviously longer event. Abrahams entered the 100. Remarkably, both won gold medals. Liddell set a world record in the 400, which stood for more than a decade.
 
#81
#81
OrangeInKy said:
But did he have anywhere near the talent Manning did? I don't think he did, I think Kelly had a solid career here. That comeback at ND shouldn't be devalued at all. ND was a power at that time, and it was in South Bend. He should get a lot of credit for that win and it was a phenomenal win either way. The Sugar Bowl win, The Cotton Bowl win, Auburn, Florida.... He had some good wins and solid career
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I think you missed the sarcasm there. I'm in no way devaluing anything Andy Kelly did. His achievements, as far as actually winning hardware, are far beyond those of any UT quarterback of the last 50 years save Tee Martin, and Tee only because he won a national championship. (I thought my reference to the Vols "settling" for major bowls instead of a Citrus Bowl made my intent obvious.)

He led UT to two SEC titles and three major bowls, and won two of those. I'm actually pointing out that he doesn't get credit for what he did.
 
#82
#82
MikeHamiltonFan said:
If God made me 6'6 and gave me a 42 inch vertical, I would be wasting the talent He gave me if I lacked the discipline to learn to dribble under control on the way to the rim. Michael Jordan was cut from his high school team, but he also developed an awesome fade away jumper while in the NBA through an amazing amount of hard work.

I want Hopson to stay because I think he is incredibly talented. Tobias Harris is a combination of immense talent and extremely hard work. Lofton, Jujuan Smith etc all took their gifts and worked incredibly hard.

The parable of the talents is about taking whatever you are entrusted with as a steward of the master (God giving you time, natural abilities etc.) and doing your very best with it. "To whom much is given, much will be required." A person who is given 3 talents can take that and increase it to 5 talents and then compare themselves to the person who started with 1 and made 1.5 more and think they are doing twice as well. That is not what God perceives.

You guys may disagree, I think you can absolutely serve God through excellence in sports. And for the guy who is 6'6 with the 42 inch vertical, if he also has an IQ of 170, he may want to apply his talents in designing a new rocket for private space flight. If the same guy has an IQ in the average range? He should apply himself in the area where God has given him extreme gifting.

This captures it well: Sample for Home Page of Preaching Great Text
In the motion picture, Chariots of Fire, there is an unforgettable scene and line about deciding between what one has to do and what one is called to do. The story is about the 1924 Olympic games and a Scottish runner named Eric Liddell. Liddell is the son of a minister. He's a theological student at the University of Edinburgh, preparing to be a missionary. But he can run, and to compete in the Olympics, he must discontinue his theological studies in order to train properly. The scene I will never forget occurs on a windswept hilltop…Arthur's Seat, I believe, in Edinburgh. Liddell and his sister are talking about his decision. She is arguing that he ought to forget about running and listen to God's call to the mission field. Liddell replies, "I believe God made me for a purpose; but he also made me fast. And when I run I feel his pleasure. To give it up would be to hold him in contempt; to win is to honor him."

So Liddell decides to run—to feel the pleasure of God, to honor God by running. The reason the movie was made was Liddell's decision to drop out of the 100-meter dash because the event was scheduled for Sunday, and his strict Scottish sabbatarianism would not allow it. Coaches, politicians, teammates, even British royalty, tried to persuade him to run, but he would not budge. Finally, a teammate, Harold Abrahams, who was Jewish and the British 400-meter champion, suggested that he and Liddell swap events. Liddell agreed and entered the 400, a very different and obviously longer event. Abrahams entered the 100. Remarkably, both won gold medals. Liddell set a world record in the 400, which stood for more than a decade.
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I don't disagree that athletes can be used in that way. The Liddell story is a great one. However, it still doesn't apply to every college athlete and to repeat my point in a previous post, underchieving isant always about a player nor being faithful or working hard. Sometimes, the player may not have had as much talent as analysts thought, injuries come into play, etc. I fully understand the point you are trying to make but you can't hold players accountable for not being faithful to God with their athletic abilities of they don't have that belief or think they have talents for that reason. I just never heard athletics used as an explanation for that parable while in seminary.
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#83
#83
jsc1973 said:
I think you missed the sarcasm there. I'm in no way devaluing anything Andy Kelly did. His achievements, as far as actually winning hardware, are far beyond those of any UT quarterback of the last 50 years save Tee Martin, and Tee only because he won a national championship. (I thought my reference to the Vols "settling" for major bowls instead of a Citrus Bowl made my intent obvious.)

He led UT to two SEC titles and three major bowls, and won two of those. I'm actually pointing out that he doesn't get credit for what he did.
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Oh, haha. Totally missed it, I'm an idiot. My bad
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#85
#85
jsc1973 said:
I think you missed the sarcasm there. I'm in no way devaluing anything Andy Kelly did. His achievements, as far as actually winning hardware, are far beyond those of any UT quarterback of the last 50 years save Tee Martin, and Tee only because he won a national championship. (I thought my reference to the Vols "settling" for major bowls instead of a Citrus Bowl made my intent obvious.)

He led UT to two SEC titles and three major bowls, and won two of those. I'm actually pointing out that he doesn't get credit for what he did.
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I agree. But Kelly probably did have more talent around him than even Manning: Harper, Pickens, Morgan, Fleming, Cobb, Webb, Thompson, Stewart, Hayden, and the best batch of O lineman that have ever came through the program. That Johnny Majors, he could recruit if nothing else.
 
#86
#86
WesternKyVol said:
I agree. But Kelly probably did have more talent around him than even Manning: Harper, Pickens, Morgan, Fleming, Cobb, Webb, Thompson, Stewart, Hayden, and the best batch of O lineman that have ever came through the program. That Johnny Majors, he could recruit if nothing else.
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I still haven't gotten over what could have been with those guys. Look at that 1 loss team in 89, I am not sure that wasn't most talent laden team at UT, with possible exception of a couple mid 90's teams
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#87
#87
zjcvols said:
Who then was benched for JP Prince...who...wasn't a point guard...like...at all.
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Go back and look at his rivals and scout profile coming out of HS. He was recruited as a 6'7" PG and originally signed with AZ. He played one season in a very limited roll, and we brought him in for his length on the perimeter and as a backup PG initially. We moved him to the 3. His career, outside of transferring, is similar to DeAndre Liggins up at UK. Both were initially slated as tall PG's coming out of HS and both found their niche on the wing. JP was the best passer we had on the team for the majority of his time on The Hill, and by FAR the best at feeding the post. Chism owes a lot of his pts in the paint to great entry passes from JP.

Go Vols!!!
 
#88
#88
Stanley Asumnu and I 2nd Erik Locke and Nilo Sylvan... best athletes to never contribute much of anything on the field. They were repeatedly spoken as the best athletes on UT's roster and never did squat on the field. Stanley was a consensus top 50 player coming out of Houston and that kid could pluck a quarter off the scoreboard, but couldn't hit 30% on layups... Could've been a great defensive player while here if someone would have coached him. There's a reason even this past season he was playing in the D-League, but that reason never surfaced at UT.
 
#89
#89
WesternKyVol said:
I agree. But Kelly probably did have more talent around him than even Manning: Harper, Pickens, Morgan, Fleming, Cobb, Webb, Thompson, Stewart, Hayden, and the best batch of O lineman that have ever came through the program. That Johnny Majors, he could recruit if nothing else.
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Be careful:shhh:

There's a faction of the fanbase that truly believes those successes were because of Phillip Fulmer and not Johnny Majors. Nevermind that Phillp had never been a successful head coach anywhere else other than UT and Johnny was successful at both Iowa St and Pitt before returning to his alma mater
 
#90
#90
DaDuRkEr said:
Stanley Asumnu and I 2nd Erik Locke and Nilo Sylvan... best athletes to never contribute much of anything on the field. They were repeatedly spoken as the best athletes on UT's roster and never did squat on the field. Stanley was a consensus top 50 player coming out of Houston and that kid could pluck a quarter off the scoreboard, but couldn't hit 30% on layups... Could've been a great defensive player while here if someone would have coached him. There's a reason even this past season he was playing in the D-League, but that reason never surfaced at UT.
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Asumnu was coached pretty well during the 05-06 season when Pearl arrived regardless of what our self annointed experts say
 
#91
#91
MikeHamiltonFan said:
If God made me 6'6 and gave me a 42 inch vertical, I would be wasting the talent He gave me if I lacked the discipline to learn to dribble under control on the way to the rim.
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Would it be fair to say that, in your opinion, all tall men with leaping ability have a moral obligation to play basketball?
 
#94
#94
Jaytrain5 said:
Would it be fair to say that, in your opinion, all tall men with leaping ability have a moral obligation to play basketball?
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Ha no.

Jurick is more talented than many giants as a ball player, but he is a good example of tall and not blessed in the way a Hopson is athletically.
 
#96
#96
shortgameVol said:
Asumnu was coached pretty well during the 05-06 season when Pearl arrived regardless of what our self annointed experts say
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You're right... we got a great 5-7 mpg out of a player that has had a pretty solid NBA D-league career for the last 5 years... fail
 
#97
#97
Jaytrain5 said:
Would it be fair to say that, in your opinion, all tall men with leaping ability have a moral obligation to play basketball for the Vols?
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fyp

yes. Except for Justin Hunter. he is morally obligated to continue the football.
 
#98
#98
WesternKyVol said:
Because he pulled a Haynesworth. We only got about half of a great season out of him. I disagree on VY, though.
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Haslip had the ugliest jump shot I have ever seen but it went in with regularity. He didn't shoot at the top of his jump, but on the way down, really wierd.
 
#99
#99
San Diego Vol said:
What? BW was a serious overachiever. He was awesome here
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If I'm remembering correctly Warton was the only player Oneil would let shoot. They would come down and run the clock down to about five seconds and then Warton would take the shot. Similar to UT this year pass the ball aroung the perimeter util about ten seconds and then try to get a shot.
 
#100
#100
OrangeInKy said:
But did he have anywhere near the talent Manning did? I don't think he did, I think Kelly had a solid career here. That comeback at ND shouldn't be devalued at all. ND was a power at that time, and it was in South Bend. He should get a lot of credit for that win and it was a phenomenal win either way. The Sugar Bowl win, The Cotton Bowl win, Auburn, Florida.... He had some good wins and solid career
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isnt that the game they call the miracle in south bend?
 
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