National Sales Tax Replacing Income Tax

[NorthDallas40]

It's cute that you think that corporations that have managed to dodge paying any taxes on literal billions of dollars under income tax laws will suddenly start paying more because we adopt a national sales tax.

It’s cute that you continue to focus on a taxed group that represents a less than a tenth of total tax revenue. You could vacate corporate taxes and we would carry on fine. Corporate taxes aren’t the damn problem no matter how much you want to screech on it.

 

[NEO]

Umm It’s a 17% tax either way.

Currently no. Few states currently have no sales tax on cars.

In the hypothetical maybe if it applies to business purchases also.

But there will be a loop hole. There always is.

 

[McDad]

Their additional purchases are negligible so their taxes paid on those additional purchases is negligible.

do you feel like providing examples where the increase in spending is acknowledged while also negligible?

 

[NorthDallas40]

It's cute that you think that corporations that have managed to dodge paying any taxes on literal billions of dollars under income tax laws will suddenly start paying more because we adopt a national sales tax.

Here ya go Einstein! You’re welcome.

 

[McDad]

Currently no. Few states currently have no sales tax on cars.

In the hypothetical maybe if it applies to business purchases also.

But there will be a loop hole. There always is.

We are discussing the OP's link. You're discussing Neocon's treadmill time killing topics.

we aren't discussing the same thing.

 

[NEO]

Here ya go Einstein! You’re welcome. View attachment 295316

This right here is why businesses are trying to automate as fast as possible.

 

[volfanhill]

Currently no. Few states currently have no sales tax on cars.

In the hypothetical maybe if it applies to business purchases also.

But there will be a loop hole. There always is.

We aren’t discussing currently man

 

[BeardedVol]

Here ya go Einstein! You’re welcome. View attachment 295316

LOL, are you trying to prove my point for me?

 

[NorthDallas40]

Well that’s where we will always disagree.

I cannot fathom why many damn people seem to think the damn government is automatically ENTITLED to a portion of my damn wages. Before the Civil War they got all their damn money by means not requiring fleecing our people or companies.

 

[McDad]

I'm tired. Yall be well.

 

[volfanhill]

Boortz has been talking about this since the 80's.

I first listened to him in eighth grade. Listened every day till he retired. Didn’t always agree with him. But he is/was way more entertaining then Limbaugh/Hannity.

 

[NorthDallas40]

LOL, are you trying to prove my point for me?

If by your point being the people, not corporations, bear 86% of the tax burden in this country then yeah. You see Einstein the real take away is you could TRIPLE corporate taxes and we would still be paying around 80%. But then... they would simply leave. Genius! The damn government is not ENTITLED automatically to the fruits of company’s or people’s labor.

 

[NEO]

We are discussing the OP's link. You're discussing Neocon's treadmill time killing topics.

we aren't discussing the same thing.

Fine i read the article.

His idea elimates need for personal tax return, per article.

This would create a huge black market for sole props.

So are we going by the article or deviating from it?

 

[NorthDallas40]

This right here is why businesses are trying to automate as fast as possible.

Wait ... what?

 

[luthervol]

do you feel like providing examples where the increase in spending is acknowledged while also negligible?

Very Sad Graph: How Much Americans Have Left to Spend After Essentials, Today

 

[NEO]

We aren’t discussing currently man

Payroll taxes suck.

Unemployment tax sucks.

Workers comp sucks.

All overhead.

Those are paid for by the owners and once automated completely go away as does the tax revenue.

 

[luthervol]

I first listened to him in eighth grade. Listened every day till he retired. Didn’t always agree with him. But he is/was way more entertaining then Limbaugh/Hannity.

I agree. Great sense of humor.
He irritated me because he refused to discuss the only things with which we agreed: Gay rights (big in the 80's) and women's choice.
I also always hated the way he talked about public education......even before I worked in education.

 

[BeardedVol]

If by your point being the people, not corporations, bear 86% of the tax burden in this country then yeah. You see Einstein the real take away is you could TRIPLE corporate taxes and we would still be paying around 80%. But then... they would simply leave. Genius! The damn government is not ENTITLED automatically to the fruits of company’s or people’s labor.

Right, and now your answer is to remove 50% of that income, and replace it with 17% sales tax, with as Moore has it, 20k in tax free purchases, which means in a state like TN that collects $1089 per capita, which is roughly ~$16k, in purchases where do you think the shortfall is going to come from?

A well ordered society has a price. A standing military has a price. If you want these things, they have to be paid for.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Right, and now your answer is to remove 50% of that income, and replace it with 17% sales tax, with as Moore has it, 20k in tax free purchases, which means in a state like TN that collects $1089 per capita, which is roughly ~$16k, in purchases where do you think the shortfall is going to come from?

Proof? Because McDad already provided first order revenue estimates and they don’t agree with you boogey man BS number.

Go read the fairtax.org link I provided earlier and stop using BS fear mongering like this post

 

[volfanhill]

I agree. Great sense of humor.
He irritated me because he refused to discuss the only things with which we agreed: Gay rights (big in the 80's) and women's choice.
I also always hated the way he talked about public education......even before I worked in education.

He was a huge anti public school guy. I have respect that you listened. He wouldn’t discuss what three of us agree on bc he knew it would drive the show into a sewage he couldn’t get out of.

 

[BeardedVol]

Proof? Because McDad already provided first order revenue estimates and they don’t agree with you boogey man BS number.

Go read the fairtax.org link I provided earlier and stop using BS fear mongering like this post

LOL I linked to the data in that post, you can see the sales tax collected per capita, by state. It's simple math to look at the sales tax rates and get a rough estimate of what is spent. 20k in tax free purchases wouls be a revenue shortfall, and would most likely cause consumers to opt for the cheapest options, and push purchases to the next year, rather than exceed 20k and pay an extra 17%.

 

[NEO]

Proof? Because McDad already provided first order revenue estimates and they don’t agree with you boogey man BS number.

Go read the fairtax.org link I provided earlier and stop using BS fear mongering like this post

Just because I am disagreeing doesn't mean I dont respect your opinions or the others.

But what do you think happens to low income single heads of households with a 17 percent sales tax on all goods?

 

[NorthDallas40]

One of the gripes I have about DC projections is they never take into consideration the public's change of behavior based on the policy. I made this mistake in my previous calculations. I want to redo the numbers to reflect the anticipated change in behavior.

Most of us have a budget. Only so much can be spent. Even if you spend 100% of your income, you cannot exceed that amount for ever. So in reality, as prices increase 17% we can expect 17% decrease in consumer spending. After all, each person has a finite amount of money to spend.

The new calculations are:
54T - 17% = 45T (rounded) is projected consumer spending.

45T x 17% = 7.65T revenue.

This still fails to take into account the 20K untaxed.

LOL I linked to the data in that post, you can see the sales tax collected per capita, by state. It's simple math to look at the sales tax rates and get a rough estimate of what is spent. 20k in tax free purchases wouls be a revenue shortfall, and would most likely cause consumers to opt for the cheapest options, and push purchases to the next year, rather than exceed 20k and pay an extra 17%.

Just knock a trillion or two off this for the 20K.

we’re fine.

Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

 

[luthervol]

He was a huge anti public school guy. I have respect that you listened. He wouldn’t discuss what three of us agree on bc he knew it would drive the show into a sewage he couldn’t get out of.

Listened to him, Hannity, and Limbaugh daily for years. Hated Hannity and Limbaugh. That's when I was first exposed to the horrible potential of right wing propaganda. It's been worse than my greatest fears.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Just because I am disagreeing doesn't mean I dont respect your opinions or the others.

But what do you think happens to low income single heads of households with a 17 percent sales tax on all goods?

Since their first $20K is untaxed I’d guess most would be fine actually.

look our current method sucks and is ridiculously inefficient. A sales tax is simple and fair. It taxes consumption and actually rewards savings