NCAA files response in Tennessee lawsuit, cites state’s laws barring NIL in recruiting

[NATHAN05]

They need to justify their existence and save their own jobs.

I 110% agree......im just saying why do they not live to fight another day? Spin it like we (the school and fans) jumped the gun, they hadn't finished their inquiry, retreat while saving face, and then go pummel some small G5 school to make themselves feel better?........just seems like a tremendous amount of egos and arrogance.

We all have SOME bosses like that. They wanna continually move up to try and feel important or satisfy their own existence and they go around making subordinates lives miserable with their management decisions......just dumb to me.

 

[madbamahater]

I'm not sure I want Pitino on my team

While we agree with him on this one, we need to stay very far away from him.

I do support him and St Johns starting there own defensive strategy against the AA. The more the merrier........

 

[cherokeeeVOL]

I 110% agree......im just saying why do they not live to fight another day? Spin it like we (the school and fans) jumped the gun, they hadn't finished their inquiry, retreat while saving face, and then go pummel some small G5 school to make themselves feel better?........just seems like a tremendous amount of egos and arrogance.

We all have SOME bosses like that. They wanna continually move up to try and feel important or satisfy their own existence and they go around making subordinates lives miserable with their management decisions......just dumb to me.

Good question. Ego I guess, combined with the desire for power and control. They’ve definitely overplayed their hand this time.

 

[Sudden Impact]

IMO, the NCAA appears to be trying to grasp control of a Recruiting environment of which in the past they had total Control of but now with NIL and the Portal they got "Zero" Control.

They grasped at a Straw and basically focused on Tennessee coming out of a fight with the NCAA of which Tennessee loss. They targeted Tennessee because the one thing that stills stands is the Repeat Violations during the probationary period.

The loss the Supreme Court decision, the NCAA has changed the rules regarding the Portal at least 2 times. They have had to make COVID Policy decisions and the list goes on and on. There are 6 lawsuits regarding NIL and Transfer Rules and Portal Issues already.

The NCAA must be in total Chaos and so desperate that it appears they have stepped into the Custer's Last Stand at Little Big Horn. A scalping may take place.

 

[SpookyAction]

I think you're exactly correct. This is only about the restraining order.

It's very close to signing day and the NCAA is trying to argue, it seems, that the lack of NIL restrictions creates chaos for signing day as schools might use the lack of NCAA NIL restrictions to "last minute flip" players via methods the NCAA disapproves of.

This is nowhere near their complete response to the meat of the lawsuit, just the temporary restraining order request.

It's early yet. The attorneys haven't even billed enough to pay for a new pool at the beach house yet. There's a lot more billable hours to be charged before they get anywhere near the response, countersuit, or whatever the NCAA does, much less a trial.

Both sides are in the kabuki posedown phase trying to appear their most powerful and threatening.

.

 

[FLVOL_79]

NCAA, Let me put this in layman terms for you. Kids go to college to learn how to make money. NiL is a way they make money. Therefore you NCAA are not allowed to tell a kid they can or cannot make money. Lawsuit from UT says, GTFO on behalf of all kids!

With some of the degrees offered nowadays I am not so sure about that.

 

[K87vol]

 

[JohnWardForever]

“Tennessee is not irreparably harmed " Oh yes they are! The leak did that, and the leak will be more ammo for The Plaintiffs.

 

[VolTull]

With some of the degrees offered nowadays I am not so sure about that.

Nor should college be all about making money and for most it is not.

 

[DaddyChad]

I'm not sure I understand the ins and outs of all this, but I think the NCAA is merely responding to the request presented to the court for injunctive relief. The merits of the case filed by the state will still be tried, and I don't think this particular response is addressing their investigation against us. I may be wrong, and if there are any attorneys on here, clear it up for us (me), if you would.

(Tomorrow, going to bed now..)

I believe you’re right this is just a response to the injunction.

Sounds like and I’m no lawyer that they’re still trying to use old booster rules. And that would all depend on if a collective could be defined as a booster. If they lose this it isn’t over but it essentially is.

 

[DaddyChad]

Nor should college be all about making money and for most it is not.

College isn’t football is. And let’s be honest it’s been that way for many years, just now the the players make money.

 

[LordVOLdemort]

Nor should college be all about making money and for most it is not.

Mr. Baker, you’re not welcome here…

 

[DaddyChad]

I 110% agree......im just saying why do they not live to fight another day? Spin it like we (the school and fans) jumped the gun, they hadn't finished their inquiry, retreat while saving face, and then go pummel some small G5 school to make themselves feel better?........just seems like a tremendous amount of egos and arrogance.

We all have SOME bosses like that. They wanna continually move up to try and feel important or satisfy their own existence and they go around making subordinates lives miserable with their management decisions......just dumb to me.

I think that they already saw the writing on the wall. They needed to win a case like this and redefine how collectives are defined thus how NIL is awarded. I think they knew this was essentially their last stand. They thought they would get public support vs a program with a recent history of transgressions and a high profile nil.

 

[VolTull]

Mr. Baker, you’re not welcome here…

I'd take offense but you got your ass kicked by a bespectacled teenager. Is there an afterlife?

 

[Ovol]

Pretty sure that enforcing the laws of the State of Tennessee is not in the NCAAs purview.

 

[Voluble2]

There is no reason to upend this process, invite chaos on a moment’s notice, and transform college sports into an environment where players and schools match up based primarily on the dollars that can change hands,” NCAA lawyers wrote.

Calling the Sherman Anti-trust Act "no reason" is a bold strategy. I imagine the kids who want to compare offers may feel there is ample reason to act now.

The NCAA may win this round based on the fact that they have issued no penalties or notice of investigation. Courts are loathe to act preemptively. That is the biggest weakness I see here. To that end, it might help if an athlete joined as plaintiff since it is easier to make the case they are already being harmed.

As to the ultimate disposition, UT should prevail. But anything can happen in the interim.

 

[VolTull]

College isn’t football is. And let’s be honest it’s been that way for many years, just now the the players make money.

Decades, half a century. Used to be free tickets we could sell. Place your freebies in the right slot at Gibbs and viola they disappeared and turned into money .

 

[NATHAN05]

I think that they already saw the writing on the wall. They needed to win a case like this and redefine how collectives are defined thus how NIL is awarded. I think they knew this was essentially their last stand. They thought they would get public support vs a program with a recent history of transgressions and a high profile nil.

I agree and your probably right. I just don't understand the ego that is the NCAA. It's like their adamant that they don't want players to get paid and the game to change. All they had to do when they lost the Supreme Court case and various other small cases was say "Hey commissioners, coaches, collectives, etc. We're going to Vegas for 2 weeks and we're going to sit down in the Bellagio ballroom and we're going to come up with rules and a plan for this NIL."

Instead they're going the Blockbuster, Circuit City, laser disc, music stores......

 

[NighthawkVol]

Sorry if already posted. Too many threads to keep up with everything. Move if needed.

NCAA files response in NIL lawsuit brought by Tennessee, Virginia AGs

Tennessee and Virginia have their own deadline for a response on Sunday, and a hearing is scheduled for Feb. 13.

www.google.com

What state laws are they referring to?

 

[DaddyChad]

I agree and your probably right. I just don't understand the ego that is the NCAA. It's like their adamant that they don't want players to get paid and the game to change. All they had to do when they lost the Supreme Court case and various other small cases was say "Hey commissioners, coaches, collectives, etc. We're going to Vegas for 2 weeks and we're going to sit down in the Bellagio ballroom and we're going to come up with rules and a plan for this NIL."

Instead they're going the Blockbuster, Circuit City, laser disc, music stores......View attachment 617544

I think when NIL was originally purposed it was to put legit marketing and branding money in athletes hands. A lot of collectives are mostly a collections of boosters with some businesses etc seeking legit marketing. NCAA wants to be able to define each of these collectives which is imo beyond their ability and honestly I’m not sure it’s legal to begin with. I’m sure they will have a compelling argument but I’m not sure that works out for them.

If the goal of the Supreme Court ruling was to put the most money in these athletes hands they have to be able to explore all options in a free market system. If and I mean even if some of those options aren’t legit you still can’t do away with the whole open market system.

Ncaa was ill prepared and slow to act on the NIL change, heck you can argue they allowed it to come about themselves by hard lining against it. It’s sadly the same incompetent, heavy handed strategy they’ve always used now. I’m not sure we win the injunction; I feel we will but I’m not sure. The suit against the ncaa? I see no possible way they win that. They’re toast there and likely sued into oblivion following. Everyone sees that which is why this conference advisory board is already in motion.

 

[CAVPUT]

This is for a temporary injunction pending the outcome of the merits of the case. It requires several things to be granted. One of the things that must be shown is “likelihood of success on the merits.” So, if it is granted, it’s usually all but over. However, a denial doesn’t mean quite as much, because they can be denied for other reasons (typically lack of immediate irreparable harm). It’s usually only game over for the movant if the court states something devastating like the movant is not likely to succeed on the merits.

So, if it’s granted, NCAA will most like try to appeal because it would foreshadow a likely loss for them. If Tennessee doesn’t win, it’s not the end of the world for the case depending on the rationale for the denial.

Pick the lengthiest road to resolution and that's how this plays out. Would be great to slam the door and move on, but for the Vols, that's not how this game goes. Can't have a recruiting class without cloud's, and we absolutely need to drag this out at least through the spring portal.

 

[DaddyChad]

Pick the lengthiest road to resolution and that's how this plays out. Would be great to slam the door and move on, but for the Vols, that's not how this game goes. Can't have a recruiting class without cloud's, and we absolutely need to drag this out at least through the spring portal.

I have a feeling if we don’t get the injunction this will be a long hard slog for us as a program. I don’t think in the end it matters the ncaa is dead; it’s just can they drag us down while they’re dying?

 

[1 in 102 455]

Pick the lengthiest road to resolution and that's how this plays out. Would be great to slam the door and move on, but for the Vols, that's not how this game goes. Can't have a recruiting class without cloud's, and we absolutely need to drag this out at least through the spring portal.

The PI hearing is February 13, so we’ll know soon enough. There was a request to have a ruling on the TRO by the 6th. The grant or denial of the TRO will be telling. It’s easier to get the TRO because you don’t have to show likelihood of success on the merits, so if the TRO is denied, good luck getting the PI.

 

[sjt18]

Only one side agrees with you.

There's literally nothing there.

UT doesn't have to prove irreparable harm or anything close to that standard.

The NCAA does not have the authority to arbitrarily find and interpret state law as a basis for what they tried to do.

The Vols aren't challenging the rules. The "rules" the NCAA hopes to use were overturned by NIL. Otherwise they may be talking about state law for which they have ZERO jurisdiction or authority. They failed to come up with new rules. That's not a violation by UT.

UT waited "years"? NIL isn't years old. Was UT supposed to call Miss Cleo and get a reading about what rules would NOT BE PLACE in 2024?
And no... UT doesn't have to seek relief until it recognizes damages. That's meaningless and highly prejudiced language.

What process? A process where the NCAA just gets to make things up as they go? Where they (continue to) arbitrarily apply the rules based on who they like and dislike?

If there is "chaos" then the NCAA is 100% responsible. They had an opportunity to look for ways to regulate NIL after the ruling. They didn't. You only have to look at how badly they've managed the portal to know how competent they are to do anything with NIL. Time to kick them to the curb and start over.

“Requests for radical change require sound deliberation. They benefit from a complete record and fulsome consideration. The Court should deny Plaintiffs’ late-breaking and ill-conceived request for injunctive relief.”

This has to be the most delusional grasp of all... or else they know they have a sympathetic judge... or they just felt like they had to say something in response. They are threatening UT with what could be the death penalty. THEY are the ones who have RADICALLY and suddenly and without ANY "sound" deliberation targeted a school (and it could be virtually any other school) for violating rules.... that it does not have and that UT never agreed to comply with.


Bottom line is that the NCAA has been like an abusive wife for its whole existence. The teams tolerated the abuse because they thought the marriage was good on the whole. They have brow beaten and abused programs with inconsistent application and interpretation of the rules. The ONLY thing that permitted it is that no one stood up and said no. It looks like UT, UVA, and hopefully others... have finally had enough.

 

[turbovol]

NCAA, Let me put this in layman terms for you. Kids go to college to learn how to make money. NiL is a way they make money. Therefore you NCAA are not allowed to tell a kid they can or cannot make money. Lawsuit from UT says, GTFO on behalf of all kids!

What a stupid response.

The NCAA's response reiterates what I've been asserting for days--that recruiting should not be about bribery of high-school prospects. And it astounds me that some, if not many UT fans are OK with it--first, because it's essentially unethical; and second, because UT is not going to gain any advantage from a system of NIL bribery. If it's allowed, all the majors will do it; they've all got plenty of money, and all the majors will nullify one another.

What's more, I did not know that Tennessee's state law prohibits using NIL for recruiting purposes--a major factor apparently left out by the state's lawsuit. It would now appear that the lawsuit wants to argue that because we and other schools had been ignoring or violating the state's laws against NIL in recruiting, we should be allowed to carry on with it. Nonsense.

I also didin't realize that the NCAA had issued clear instructions prohibiting the use of NIL deals in recruiting on or before Jan 1 2023.

It's my hope that the major conferences, starting with the SEC and Big10 advisory committee, will come to see the folly and unethical nature of bribery in recruiting. It's a sucker's game, it's corrupting the kids--and it's just unnecessary and stupid. It's not what college sports is supposed to be about. There can be a market for anybody, doing anything, if enough people are dumb enough to create it. Let's hope the majors have some common sense.