NCAA files response in Tennessee lawsuit, cites state’s laws barring NIL in recruiting

[Volfansince1980]

First, as I mentioned above, there can be a "market" for anything if people are stupid enough to create it. And, in my opinion, the majors are stupid to create a market for 17-year-old football players because there is no advantage in it, really. Because they will all just cancel each other out. UT is not going to build a better roster than Georgia or Ohio State because of NIL in recruiting, though feel free to pretend that we will. Beyond that, bribery contests for high-school players is unseemly and unethical on the face of it.

College football players are already paid for their efforts--and rather handsomely--in the form of a free, four year college education--and for a lot of kids nowadays it extends to five or six years and they can even get a graduate degree on the university's dime. You do realize that a free college/graduate education is worth a helluva lot of money? Probably in excess of $250,000 over four years, everything including. And it would be more than that if they're able to earn a graduate degree because they were redshirted or had an injury redshirt/covid year, etc. How come this is never mentioned by the crazies? I think because the college/academic side of alll this doesn't register with them--because most haven't been to college. All they know and see is the football.

There are probably high-school football programs around the country---think Texas, for one--with fans/administrators crazy enough to offer money to 12- or 14-year-olds to persuade them to attend and play for their team as opposed to a rival. It would be stupid and unethical--but certainly it could be done.

Sure, I hire people to play piano at parties on occasion. It is free-time, part-time work--like cutting grass or shoveling snow. That is not college football. College football is a sanctioned sport sponsored--made possible by--the university. Football players can't play football for money on their own and get paid for it. They play it only because it is a university-sponsored activity--and they are full-time university students. If UT didn't have football, and they weren't a student at UT, they of course wouldn't be playing football at all.

Who exactly is "profiting" off the "hard work" of the football players? The only ones really profiting, financially, are the head coaches. The others who are profiting are all the student-athletes who participate in the 15/20 non-revenue sports at UT and other colleges. It is football revenue that sponsors all those sports, which do not make money and never will. Football revenues are plowed back into the athletic department--into stadium improvements--and essetially fund much of the athletic department. Some athletic department money goes to the academic side as well. So, nobody but the head coach is directly "profiting" from the games. It's a myth. I'm glad that we have a bunch of good Olympic sports teams at UT, made possible in part by football, because they enhance UT's overall reputation--as they do at all other universities

European soccer academics are not schools--and the kids are not paid. They may get stipends for certain expenses, but they're not paid, I do not believe.

NIL was not--not--conceived as a recruiting tool. It was conceived---by SEC states, originally (how funny)-- to compensate existing student-athletes for the use of their name, image, likeness. Fair enough. It's been corrupted and devolved into a recruiting tool because programs and their boosters are crazy. That is a word that ever more accurately drives college football. It is why A&M will spend more than $100 million to fire one coach and hire another--idiocy of the highest order, and all to win a few more college football games.

If the majors are allowed to carry on with NIL bribery in recruiting, then fans can be free to send their hard-earned money to a collective so that it can bribe some gangly, pimply tight end to UT, in the hope--and it will only be that--that he might develop into a player good enough to help us beat Ole Miss or Kentucky or whomever. I won't do it--but plenty of zealous fans will because they care excessively about college games.

Nice speech. My only takeaway from your diatribe. Is you enjoy acting like the ‘smartest guy in the room’ while being condescending to others who realize your outdated views are not applicable in today’s environment. If you think ‘bribery’ started with NIL, you have not paid a lot of attention over the years. And you seem to be siding with an organization that has been one of the most corrupt, vaguely ran organizations that is allowed to arbitrarily drop their sickle and hammer on schools they choose. Your mentality is everything wrong with how college sports operates in today’s space. Translation: Go suck on a Wherthers and sit this one out.

 

[volfanhill]

In all aspects of turbos life he wants to keep poor people poor
Hates the idea of the market determining someone's worth. Thinks a group or comittee should

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Nor should college be all about making money and for most it is not.

Based on what? It certainly is about making money for the coaches, the schools, and Tre NCAA.

It's past time for the athletes to benefit with a greater share. Without them, there is NO college ball.

 

[Godfatha]

When is Tennessee's response due today, and will it be publicized?

 

[midtnvol2]

I wonder what can or does happen if the major conferences "resign" from the NCAA.

When it comes to March Madness, the NCAA has the TV contracts for the tournament and I think it's until beyond 2030. That tourney accounts for most of their money.

I'm unsure if the schools can force the NCAA to give up those rights (a la the ACC "Grant of Rights" issues.)

I agree, but if the power 5 can legally break away from the NCAA and you no longer have a Kansas vs Michigan matchup and now you have a San Jose St vs MTSU national championship game, who is going to pay for the rights to that game? The power 5 have the best and most watchable catalog of teams in just about any championship tourney .

 

[VolTull]

Based on what? It certainly is about making money for the coaches, the schools, and Tre NCAA.

It's past time for the athletes to benefit with a greater share. Without them, there is NO college ball.

College does not equal football

 

[Danl]

Your comment is laughable. You think it's easy managing the country's major college football programs, which in some ways are driven by the irrational behavior and expectations of fans? You seem to be under the naive illusion that throwing money at 18-year-olds is somehow going to give us some sort of recruiting advantage. It quite obviously won't, and it's unethical, which then begs the question of why certain UT fans seem eager to participate in the unseemly bribery of high-school prospects. The NCAA is trying to retain at least a bit of integrity in college football--an admittedly tough task when one considers how absurdities in the sport nowadays--and I for one applaud it for doing so. What we know is that simple fans will always start running around flailing their arms whenever they perceive some "attack" on their beloved program, which is why there is this constant refrain that either ESPN, or some football analyst, or the officials or the NCAA, or someone else, is always out to get UT.

Let’s consider three students attending college.

Student A goes to college, his parents pay for most of it. He works part time to make up the difference. He can legally work as much or as little wants and he can make as much money as he wants doing whatever he wants.

Student B is on a full academic scholarship. The scholarship pays for all tuition, room and board, books, food, and an $8,0000.00 annual stipend. Student B also works for himself during the summer as an intern at his Dad’s firm. Student B can legally work as much or as little wants doing whatever he wants and he can make as much money as he wants.

Student C is on a full athletic scholarship. The scholarship pays for all tuition, room and board, books, food, and a small stipend. The NCAA says that Student C can not work and make as much money as he wants.

Do you think that the NCAA is treating Student C fairly? Do you think the State or Federal government, including the Federal Courts think the NCAA is treating Student C fairly?

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

View attachment 617527

Choas=NCAA

 

[Godfatha]

First, as I mentioned above, there can be a "market" for anything if people are stupid enough to create it. And, in my opinion, the majors are stupid to create a market for 17-year-old football players because there is no advantage in it, really. Because they will all just cancel each other out. UT is not going to build a better roster than Georgia or Ohio State because of NIL in recruiting, though feel free to pretend that we will. Beyond that, bribery contests for high-school players is unseemly and unethical on the face of it.

College football players are already paid for their efforts--and rather handsomely--in the form of a free, four year college education--and for a lot of kids nowadays it extends to five or six years and they can even get a graduate degree on the university's dime. You do realize that a free college/graduate education is worth a helluva lot of money? Probably in excess of $250,000 over four years, everything including. And it would be more than that if they're able to earn a graduate degree because they were redshirted or had an injury redshirt/covid year, etc. How come this is never mentioned by the crazies? I think because the college/academic side of alll this doesn't register with them--because most haven't been to college. All they know and see is the football.

There are probably high-school football programs around the country---think Texas, for one--with fans/administrators crazy enough to offer money to 12- or 14-year-olds to persuade them to attend and play for their team as opposed to a rival. It would be stupid and unethical--but certainly it could be done.

Sure, I hire people to play piano at parties on occasion. It is free-time, part-time work--like cutting grass or shoveling snow. That is not college football. College football is a sanctioned sport sponsored--made possible by--the university. Football players can't play football for money on their own and get paid for it. They play it only because it is a university-sponsored activity--and they are full-time university students. If UT didn't have football, and they weren't a student at UT, they of course wouldn't be playing football at all.

Who exactly is "profiting" off the "hard work" of the football players? The only ones really profiting, financially, are the head coaches. The others who are profiting are all the student-athletes who participate in the 15/20 non-revenue sports at UT and other colleges. It is football revenue that sponsors all those sports, which do not make money and never will. Football revenues are plowed back into the athletic department--into stadium improvements--and essetially fund much of the athletic department. Some athletic department money goes to the academic side as well. So, nobody but the head coach is directly "profiting" from the games. It's a myth. I'm glad that we have a bunch of good Olympic sports teams at UT, made possible in part by football, because they enhance UT's overall reputation--as they do at all other universities

European soccer academics are not schools--and the kids are not paid. They may get stipends for certain expenses, but they're not paid, I do not believe.

NIL was not--not--conceived as a recruiting tool. It was conceived---by SEC states, originally (how funny)-- to compensate existing student-athletes for the use of their name, image, likeness. Fair enough. It's been corrupted and devolved into a recruiting tool because programs and their boosters are crazy. That is a word that ever more accurately drives college football. It is why A&M will spend more than $100 million to fire one coach and hire another--idiocy of the highest order, and all to win a few more college football games.

If the majors are allowed to carry on with NIL bribery in recruiting, then fans can be free to send their hard-earned money to a collective so that it can bribe some gangly, pimply tight end to UT, in the hope--and it will only be that--that he might develop into a player good enough to help us beat Ole Miss or Kentucky or whomever. I won't do it--but plenty of zealous fans will because they care excessively about college games.

Again, how is it unethical to pay someone for their abilities? Virtually all highly competitive specialized/technical businesses pay for the abilities of their employees.

The value of a college degree is overinflated. Just because it costs $250k doesn't mean it is worth it.

High schools have been recruiting players into their programs for years. This is nothing new.

European football players are paid when they are brought up to their club. I've seen 17 and 18 year old kids make clubs.

Competition made NIL into a recruiting tool. School A is at a disadvantage if they're not using it, because school B is.

It's fan's choice where to send their money. Actually all of this is about choice. I, for one, think it is a great thing that kids are able to make some life changing money to help their families. Many of these kids come from poor backgrounds and they and their families lives are being improved.

 

[Godfatha]

Let’s consider three students attending college.

Student A goes to college, his parents pay for most of it. He works part time to make up the difference. He can legally work as much or as little wants and he can make as much money as he wants doing whatever he wants.

Student B is on a full academic scholarship. The scholarship pays for all tuition, room and board, books, food, and an $8,0000.00 annual stipend. Student B also works for himself during the summer as an intern at his Dad’s firm. Student B can legally work as much or as little wants doing whatever he wants and he can make as much money as he wants.

Student C is on a full athletic scholarship. The scholarship pays for all tuition, room and board, books, food, and a small stipend. The NCAA says that Student C can not work and make as much money as he wants.

Do you think that the NCAA is treating Student C fairly? Do you think the State or Federal government, including the Federal Courts think the NCAA is treating Student C fairly?

Student C is often poor and can't afford anything unless he/she is getting money under the table or through NIL.

 

[joevol33]

Let’s consider three students attending college.

Student A goes to college, his parents pay for most of it. He works part time to make up the difference. He can legally work as much or as little wants and he can make as much money as he wants doing whatever he wants.

Student B is on a full academic scholarship. The scholarship pays for all tuition, room and board, books, food, and an $8,0000.00 annual stipend. Student B also works for himself during the summer as an intern at his Dad’s firm. Student B can legally work as much or as little wants doing whatever he wants and he can make as much money as he wants.

Student C is on a full athletic scholarship. The scholarship pays for all tuition, room and board, books, food, and a small stipend. The NCAA says that Student C can not work and make as much money as he wants.

Do you think that the NCAA is treating Student C fairly? Do you think the State or Federal government, including the Federal Courts think the NCAA is treating Student C fairly?

If u gonna argue with yahoos get back to the zone

 

[Sudden Impact]

.

I deleted the reply portion because I didn't want anybody to have to read the BS you spewed.
This is a bad habit you have so take a chill pill.
I now understand the issues that Trump supporters have with you in the Political forum.
You will not admit that you are WRONG or that you cannot GRASP what it going on.
Move Forward not backwards instead of faulty speculation.
I understand the problem with you now that you are in a different area.
Town Crier. You sound as though you work for the NCAA.

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

The fact that NCAA thinks there isn't already chaos just shows how out of touch they are on the campus level. Further proving our point.

Bingo, Turbo?&@ loves him some NCAA. The old outdated and corrupt machine. GBO

 

[Jxn Vol]

I deleted the reply portion because I didn't want anybody to have to read the BS you spewed.
This is a bad habit you have so take a chill pill.
I now understand the issues that Trump supporters have with you in the Political forum.
You will not admit that you are WRONG or that you cannot GRASP what it going on.
Move Forward not backwards instead of faulty speculation.
I understand the problem with you now that you are in a different area.
Town Crier. You sound as though you work for the NCAA.

Speedo is easily the biggest idiot that posts in the PF. I’m fairly certain he has purple hair, wears skinny jeans, and enough facial piercings that looks like he fell on a tackle box.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

What a stupid response.

The NCAA's response reiterates what I've been asserting for days--that recruiting should not be about bribery of high-school prospects. And it astounds me that some, if not many UT fans are OK with it--first, because it's essentially unethical; and second, because UT is not going to gain any advantage from a system of NIL bribery. If it's allowed, all the majors will do it; they've all got plenty of money, and all the majors will nullify one another.

What's more, I did not know that Tennessee's state law prohibits using NIL for recruiting purposes--a major factor apparently left out by the state's lawsuit. It would now appear that the lawsuit wants to argue that because we and other schools had been ignoring or violating the state's laws against NIL in recruiting, we should be allowed to carry on with it. Nonsense.

I also didin't realize that the NCAA had issued clear instructions prohibiting the use of NIL deals in recruiting on or before Jan 1 2023.

It's my hope that the major conferences, starting with the SEC and Big10 advisory committee, will come to see the folly and unethical nature of bribery in recruiting. It's a sucker's game, it's corrupting the kids--and it's just unnecessary and stupid. It's not what college sports is supposed to be about. There can be a market for anybody, doing anything, if enough people are dumb enough to create it. Let's hope the majors have some common sense.

"Should be"??? Says who? It's not bribery. It's free market enterprise. Does your employer "bribe" you to come to work?

 

[Revengevol]

Now that we have semi pro ball. Let’s just forget all the damn rules and pay as much as we can.

 

[Revengevol]

Hire Pruitt and that bunch back and we’d be ahead of the curve. We would also save money on McDonald’s bags.

 

[turbovol]

Student C is often poor and can't afford anything unless he/she is getting money under the table or through NIL.

You're mixing apples and oranges, dude. The NCAA doesn't prevent the football player from taking an outside job if he has the time and inclination.
And he's getting paid for playing football, yes, to the tune of a full scholarship +++ worth $50K a year. Most college students go in debt to
earn a college degree. Let's stop all this silliness about poor, pitiful football players.

By your viewpoint, the university should be paying the band members and cheerleaders, too, yes?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Hire Pruitt and that bunch back and we’d be ahead of the curve. We would also save money on McDonald’s bags.

This is sarcasm right? And it was Chick Fil A bags. At least get something right.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

You're mixing apples and oranges, dude. The NCAA doesn't prevent the football player from taking an outside job if he has the time and inclination.
And he's getting paid for playing football, yes, to the tune of a full scholarship +++ worth $50K a year. Most college students go in debt to
earn a college degree. Let's stop all this silliness about poor, pitiful football players.

By your viewpoint, the university should be paying the band members and cheerleaders, too, yes?

No use in arguing this. NIL is here to stay. It’s way far from perfect and I don’t really like it but it is what it is. I suspect college football will turn more into being like the NFL sooner than later.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I wonder what can or does happen if the major conferences "resign" from the NCAA.

When it comes to March Madness, the NCAA has the TV contracts for the tournament and I think it's until beyond 2030. That tourney accounts for most of their money.

I'm unsure if the schools can force the NCAA to give up those rights (a la the ACC "Grant of Rights" issues.)

If the SEC and BIG leave the NCAA they can have their own national tournament. That will greatly reduce the NCAA's March Madness product value.

 

[Delmar]

Your comment is laughable. You think it's easy managing the country's major college football programs, which in some ways are driven by the irrational behavior and expectations of fans? You seem to be under the naive illusion that throwing money at 18-year-olds is somehow going to give us some sort of recruiting advantage. It quite obviously won't, and it's unethical, which then begs the question of why certain UT fans seem eager to participate in the unseemly bribery of high-school prospects. The NCAA is trying to retain at least a bit of integrity in college football--an admittedly tough task when one considers how absurdities in the sport nowadays--and I for one applaud it for doing so. What we know is that simple fans will always start running around flailing their arms whenever they perceive some "attack" on their beloved program, which is why there is this constant refrain that either ESPN, or some football analyst, or the officials or the NCAA, or someone else, is always out to get UT.

No, it’s your incessant nonsense on this subject that’s laughable and naive. As nice as your theory and wish is, it’s not going back to that era. You haven’t responded once to multiple posts asking you if you understand that NIL cannot be limited. Or do you not understand the word illegal? I’m not going to waste time asking again.

The NCAA is powerless to stop NIL and athletes making money. Why? Because the Supreme Court said so: 9 to 0 with no dissenting opinions. The NCAA is in the same position as Custer at the Little Big Horn. “Where did all these effin Indians come from?”

 

[Godfatha]

You're mixing apples and oranges, dude. The NCAA doesn't prevent the football player from taking an outside job if he has the time and inclination.
And he's getting paid for playing football, yes, to the tune of a full scholarship +++ worth $50K a year. Most college students go in debt to
earn a college degree. Let's stop all this silliness about poor, pitiful football players.

By your viewpoint, the university should be paying the band members and cheerleaders, too, yes?

Yeah, when they're is millions of dollars in play for people to watch bands and cheerleaders. Also, no rule prohibits bands and cheerleaders from getting NIL.

The NCAA prevented student athletes for taking part time jobs for a long time. So you are incorrect there.

 

[turbovol]

"Should be"??? Says who? It's not bribery. It's free market enterprise. Does your employer "bribe" you to come to work?

You're confusing an employee for a PRIVATE company with a full-time student at public university, dude. There's a big difference--duh. Also note that the private employee can be sacked at any time and is working 8 hours a day versus 2/3 hours for a football player participating in what was long considered an extracurricular activity.

And the players have already received a free-market benefit--a financially valuable college education.

And let's look at pro football, the NFL: They bid for free-agent players, too, yes? But there's a difference: The free agents are /established/ professional players. The clubs who sign free agents basically know what they're getting.

In contrast, in college we've had collectives bidding for 17-year-olds who are not established college players. And we know that probably half of all major college-signees won't amount to much. And this: both some of those who DO pan out and many of those who Don't pan out will be likely to transfer--which means that any NIL money paid to them was wasted.

Now, we'll see how it all shakes out, but spending lots of money on UNESTABLISHED free agents who may not pan out and who could transfer whether they do or don't pan out would be considered high risk and rather unwise/dumb by a lot of people.

The NFL also bids for unestablished pro players, too--BUT via an orderly draft. Players are picked, and their contracts are essentially set in stone already--there is an established and quite tight salary/bonus range for every player picked in the draft, I believe. If the NFL were like college recruiting with NIL, you'd have 20 teams engaged in crazy bidding for the the top 2 QBs in the draft. The NFL is smart enough to avoid that. There is also a salary cap in pro football that promotes parity, so that as we see in college football, we don't see the same 10 teams dominating every year.

If, at the end of the day, NIL bribes continue to be a part of recruiting, if that's what the major programs want to do, then have at it. If your money is burning a whole in your pocket, pull it out and send it to the collective. Fans just want to support to their programs--which of course they do anyway in myriad ways by donating to the athletic department, buying season tickets, parking, travel, hotels, etc.--I get that. But it also seems both unseemly and foolish to me. I'm opposed to turning college football into some version of pro football. Perhaps one needs to have some appreciation for the total college experiernce to think as I do. I'd venture that most adult SEC college fans didn't even go to the SEC school they support--or college at all--and so for them it's just about the football and doing all one can do win at football. And that's how they view NIL.

 

[Danl]

You're mixing apples and oranges, dude. The NCAA doesn't prevent the football player from taking an outside job if he has the time and inclination.

Not if, as part of his job, he wants to market his name, image, or likeness. All other students can do so, of course.