NCAA proposing new rules to allow schools to pay athletes directly

[LWSVOL]

there are very few athletic programs that would be able to fund this, if any. There are not many programs that make a profit to absorb additional expenses. It will have to be funded by the operational budgets of the universities.

It will require cutting sports programs (rowing, golf, etc) at many universities in order to work. Many other universities will have to give up athletics. Its not sustainable.

Its going to be very interesting to watch how this unfolds.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

there are very few athletic programs that would be able to fund this, if any. There are not many programs that make a profit to absorb additional expenses. It will have to be funded by the operational budgets of the universities.

It will require cutting sports programs (rowing, golf, etc) at many universities in order to work. Many other universities will have to give up athletics. Its not sustainable.

Its going to be very interesting to watch how this unfolds.

Less golf? Hooray!

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

All of this is really beyond the scope of whether we like it or agree to it.
It is happening and the only things to hash out is what the system is going to look like and what obligations the schools will continue to have toward the players, and vice versa.
This is going to be messy. Schools that do the best jobs of simplifying this for their players will have advantages.

I think the smart move for the NCAA is to negotiate a solution allowing student athletes to be employees and obligated to be students as well.
I can't think of a legal impediment to doing it.
If the schools and NCAA can't work this out, the athletes will be legally declared employees sooner rather than later, and will then have all of the leverage in the short run, without NCAA or Conference guidelines. They could unionize. They could possibly sit out seasons to receive better compensation.

It is in the interest of the NCAA to make this happen now or it could lose oversight of the money-making sports if they spinoff in their own direction. A tiered system is probably inevitable.

It will make wages taxable, which will change things because state tax rates will become a factor for players choosing colleges. I guess it already is a factor with NIL, I just hadn't thought much about it before.

Scholarships are not taxable, and would continue to be lucrative compensation.

My only question is whether forcing an employee to attend school full-time AND be a full-time employee, essentially have two jobs instead of one for the employer can stand.

My biggest fear is other sports if the schools keep control of revenue sports. I can't see schools getting away with compensating too unequally because someone like a swimmer trains extremely hard, works a lot on technique, maintains a strict workout and diet, etc much like a football or basketball player but doesn't generate revenue. I know NIL will help the revenue players but I'm unsure the courts accept "minimums and maximums" for compensation easily.

I'm hoping this stays in the courts and then after the courts decision there's a lot of transition period allowed. Courts often allow quite a bit of time, years even, for a major shift to be sorted out, as they did with desegregation/busing but what it does is put the court in the position of "watching" which never goes well.

It's a huge mess and I wish the NCAA had realized the "bag money" was a red flag that they could've started to deal with as compensation 40 years or more ago. They essentially ignored the systemic problem until we have this giant mess.

 

[hog88]

there are very few athletic programs that would be able to fund this, if any. There are not many programs that make a profit to absorb additional expenses. It will have to be funded by the operational budgets of the universities.

It will require cutting sports programs (rowing, golf, etc) at many universities in order to work. Many other universities will have to give up athletics. Its not sustainable.

Its going to be very interesting to watch how this unfolds.

It will be funded the same way the collectives are funded, through donations. You are absolutely correct, the universities aren't going to pull money out of their operational budgets to fund NIL deals but I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that if this goes through NIL donations will be diverted to operational accounts.

 

[Voltopia]

there are very few athletic programs that would be able to fund this, if any. There are not many programs that make a profit to absorb additional expenses. It will have to be funded by the operational budgets of the universities.

It will require cutting sports programs (rowing, golf, etc) at many universities in order to work. Many other universities will have to give up athletics. Its not sustainable.

Its going to be very interesting to watch how this unfolds.

All true, and the people pounding the "pay the players" couldn't care less. They'll get their precious little mini-NFL, completely disconnected from the college experience, and the rest be damned.

It was nice while it lasted.

 

[TheDeeble]

there are very few athletic programs that would be able to fund this, if any. There are not many programs that make a profit to absorb additional expenses. It will have to be funded by the operational budgets of the universities.

It will require cutting sports programs (rowing, golf, etc) at many universities in order to work. Many other universities will have to give up athletics. Its not sustainable.

Its going to be very interesting to watch how this unfolds.

They're making it optional. No university would be required to join this new subdivision they are proposing. This is only for schools choosing to join the new subdivision and they will be able to write their own rules under which they operate. Recruiting, scholarships, NIL, roster sizes, transfers rules, and possibly more will be different from the rest of the NCAA.

Maybe some of the funding requirements could be adjusted but this to me looks like the NCAA trying to get ahead of or slow the major conferences leaving the NCAA and forming their own governing body. They're giving them the option to write their own rules separate from the rest of the NCAA.

 

[SpookyAction]

My only question is whether forcing an employee to attend school full-time AND be a full-time employee, essentially have two jobs instead of one for the employer can stand.

Directly to this, the state of TN didn't force me to work and go to school both full time, but I would have been fired if I didn't do both. I would also have been fired if I did not complete my certification within the 3 year time frame.
It is already happening in every state. It will stand.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Directly to this, the state of TN didn't force me to work and go to school both full time, but I would have been fired if I didn't do both. I would also have been fired if I did not complete my certification within the 3 year time frame.
It is already happening in every state. It will stand.

I had to gather certification also, though not expressly to keep my job but certainly to advance, get noticed, play the game, etc.

I assume your requirements were related to your field, though. Mine were. Making someone attend school in an unrelated area to their work might prove more difficult. Just a generic "you have to study something or we won't keep you" seems more intrusive than "we need you to advance by studying in your chosen career area."

 

[volfan102455]

They're making it optional. No university would be required to join this new subdivision they are proposing. This is only for schools choosing to join the new subdivision and they will be able to write their own rules under which they operate. Recruiting, scholarships, NIL, roster sizes, transfers rules, and possibly more will be different from the rest of the NCAA.

Maybe some of the funding requirements could be adjusted but this to me looks like the NCAA trying to get ahead of or slow the major conferences leaving the NCAA and forming their own governing body. They're giving them the option to write their own rules separate from the rest of the NCAA.

So you have a division with what maybe 10 to 15 universities that can afford this? I guess that makes the championship easier - each can just play all the others. No need for bowl games or championship week anymore.

 

[volfan102455]

It will be funded the same way the collectives are funded, through donations. You are absolutely correct, the universities aren't going to pull money out of their operational budgets to fund NIL deals but I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that if this goes through NIL donations will be diverted to operational accounts.

While that may sound like it will work but paying every player will pull the money from the donations that are used to upgrade the facilities. NIL donations are coming from the same set of folks that donate to the AD. There is NOT an endless supply of money there.

 

[volfan102455]

They're making it optional. No university would be required to join this new subdivision they are proposing. This is only for schools choosing to join the new subdivision and they will be able to write their own rules under which they operate. Recruiting, scholarships, NIL, roster sizes, transfers rules, and possibly more will be different from the rest of the NCAA.

Maybe some of the funding requirements could be adjusted but this to me looks like the NCAA trying to get ahead of or slow the major conferences leaving the NCAA and forming their own governing body. They're giving them the option to write their own rules separate from the rest of the NCAA.

NIL and what is happening now are lawsuits waiting to happen IMO. The proposal is ensuring ALL student athletes are treated equally.

 

[hog88]

While that may sound like it will work but paying every player will pull the money from the donations that are used to upgrade the facilities. NIL donations are coming from the same set of folks that donate to the AD. There is NOT an endless supply of money there.

Oh by no means do I think it will work. The NCAA and university administrators will screw up royally and make things worse.

 

[TheDeeble]

So you have a division with what maybe 10 to 15 universities that can afford this? I guess that makes the championship easier - each can just play all the others. No need for bowl games or championship week anymore.

I would guess it wouldn't be independent schools choosing to join and leave their conference. Nobody would do anything without knowing what others would do.

I'd think it would be an entire conference, SEC/Big10/ACC/Big12 for example, that would join together. And if that conference joined I'd think the athletic director/presidents/ect of each school in their respective conference might agree to have some conference revenue allocated to funding those required programs for the schools in their conference. Maybe not all schools have the revenue individually. But as a conference they probably would? If the SEC joined for example, I'd think they would have all the financial questions sorted out about how the new expenses will be paid for.

But before any of that happened I'd think the Commissioners of each conference would probably meet to sort out what they wanted to do.

Just speculation on my part as to the how it may go down. I might be wrong about everything.

The bottom bullet point is what would be attractive to the big schools (Power 5 conferences) imo.

 

[LWSVOL]

It will be funded the same way the collectives are funded, through donations. You are absolutely correct, the universities aren't going to pull money out of their operational budgets to fund NIL deals but I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that if this goes through NIL donations will be diverted to operational accounts.

you are talking about a whole lot more money needed than the collectives have been able to get thus far. the proposal (it will be tweaked) calls for a lot more money to players than is currently being given.

 

[LWSVOL]

They're making it optional. No university would be required to join this new subdivision they are proposing. This is only for schools choosing to join the new subdivision and they will be able to write their own rules under which they operate. Recruiting, scholarships, NIL, roster sizes, transfers rules, and possibly more will be different from the rest of the NCAA.

Maybe some of the funding requirements could be adjusted but this to me looks like the NCAA trying to get ahead of or slow the major conferences leaving the NCAA and forming their own governing body. They're giving them the option to write their own rules separate from the rest of the NCAA.

I would guess over half of the SEC would have funding problems which may cause them to hesitate. Yes, it is voluntary.

As I said, the developments will be fun to watch..

 

[hog88]

you are talking about a whole lot more money needed than the collectives have been able to get thus far. the proposal (it will be tweaked) calls for a lot more money to players than is currently being given.

I think the proposal is untenable with title IX still in play.

 

[volfan102455]

Being that I was a math major, I always do the math on things like this.

The min per student is 30K per year. The ones that agree have to allow for 50% of the countable student-athletes and 50% of that 50% has to be female. I believe I read somehwere in all this were OSU has 1,000 students that would need to be covered.

At 100% that is at a min 1000 *30,000 = 30,000,000. Half of that is 15 million per year. That is on top of having to pay for the scholarships, housing, meals for these students. The estimated cost to attend OSU (in state) is 29K and (out of state) 52K. Let's assume everyone is in state though they aren't. That is approximately 30M outside of this. If they account for everyone that is easily 60M.

The catch also is the 50% must be female. So if you include football, you need to make sure you cover the same amount of females across the sports they participate in. There will be male sports that will also be cut.

I don't know what is going to happen with this, but I dare say only a small number of colleges will be able to sign up for this. It is just not affordable.

The sad part to me is that there will be student athletes who will lose the opportunity to obtain an education without racking up massive amounts of debt in student loans that they will be paying back forever. Those students are there for the education and sports has given them the means to obtain that.

 

[turbovol]

So the part saying that programs must "allow for 50 percent of countable athletes" confuses me. What exactly does this mean? That the program must have enough money to pay half of the total number of student athletes? And what would mean what? Would programs pay certain student-athletes but not others? THAT wouldn't cover over too well. Can of worms. Big can of worms.

 

[Boston Vol]

 

[Boston Vol]

“The lawsuit seeks to end the NCAA's core business model limiting pay-for-play. It differs from NCAA's ongoing litigation challenging its limits to NIL endorsements and education-related benefits.”

 

[GulfCoasterVol]

Oh Boy. Huge ramifications.

This will cause sports to be cut within programs.

Now University employees requiring full benefits

WAGE laws since they are no longer amateur Athletes

Oh boy, I could go on but being administered by school with no cap, for all those unhappy with NIL, this is full out pro sports

Wonder if ticket costs will go up, LOL

College Football Players Union announces a strike for the upcoming season. Demands are higher wages and less physical exertion.

 

[Voltopia]

Wonderful. Why wait for the body to expire? Just pull the plug and bury the damn corpse already. Kill it, end it, and be done with it.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

It will be funded the same way the collectives are funded, through donations. You are absolutely correct, the universities aren't going to pull money out of their operational budgets to fund NIL deals but I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that if this goes through NIL donations will be diverted to operational accounts.

You do know that most donuts cost as much or more than a dollar.

 

[Rememberthelate90s]

So basically, the footnotes are:

Schools have to set aside a minimum of $30k a year, and half of the recipients have to be females to make sure they get a piece of it.

Collectives would become a part of the athletic department essentially

So donations to the UTAD could basically be used as NIL funds.

But it is designed to benefit both men and women's sports.

Nobody will do this.

 

[volfan102455]

I wonder if those filing these realize that in the end, they will probably cut off the hand that feeds them, so to speak.

Ultimately the end result will be less opportunities for many student-athletes and the sport they participate in may be one that is removed from existence at the college level.

This is all I want my 'cake' and 'eat it too'. If they are paid and their scholarship is based on them participating in a sport, then their employer decides their services are no longer needed in the middle of the year - they also lose their scholarship (that is only fair and how it works in the real world).

They also have to go through the process of finding another employer and another school. May seem simple but I bet a lot of players that are not "high stars" don't always find a landing spot.

To me it is a lot of lawyers seeing dollar signs and influencing young folks that may not really have a grasp on what they are asking means. All the see is a lawyer telling them how much money they could make when in reality it will not be what they think.

And the poor high school players trying to understand this when they barely understand how to apply for college, financial aid and such - now they are expected to negotiate a wage? Can 17-year-olds even enter into such agreements? Lots of opportunity for these students to be exploited.