Next year means everything

#27
#27
UTFranklinVol said:
I don't understand the point? The argument is he was a major factor or force in our success and he most definitely was not based on the numbers.
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Because in the first 3-4 games and the last 3-4 games he clearly WAS a major factor. You can't tell me he was the #5 WR based purely on cumulative numbers when we all know he missed 4 or 5 games with an ankle injury. Stats tell a story, but context matters. Put him on the roster right now and he's clearly the #1 option at WR.
 
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#28
#28
EZE said:
Yes….way worse…”besides that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?”
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But so many argue Hooker sucked until Heupel but apparently Heupels magic didn't work on Milton lol.

Point is Heupel struggled without a Heisman level QB, which you can say about any coach on the planet. Lol

Like I said in my OP, Heupel now has HIS GUY for QB next year and we shall see. But I bet the apologists will still get in line next year if it doesn't work out.
 
#29
#29
GAVol said:
Because in the first 3-4 games and the last 3-4 games he clearly WAS a major factor. You can't tell me he was the #5 WR based purely on cumulative numbers when we all know he missed 4 or 5 games with an ankle injury. Stats tell a story, but context matters. Put him on the roster right now and he's clearly the #1 option at WR.
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Yeah but injuries matter. Bru McCoy was the best WR on this team which means EXACTLY NOTHING because he ain't playing! Playing is how you have an impact, not trading on your name lol.

Anybody remember the name Kelley Washington? He would have gone down as the greatest WR in UT history except he didn't because he hardly played due to injury and thus contributed very little which is why stats matter lol.
 
#34
#34
UTFranklinVol said:
Yeah but injuries matter. Bru McCoy was the best WR on this team which means EXACTLY NOTHING because he ain't playing! Playing is how you have an impact, not trading on your name lol.

Anybody remember the name Kelley Washington? He would have gone down as the greatest WR in UT history except he didn't because he hardly played due to injury and thus contributed very little which is why stats matter lol.
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I'm not trying to make Cedric Tillman out to be Jerry Rice. Just pointing out that you failed to mention the guy who went into last season as the #1 option and ended up being a 3rd round NFL Draft pick.
 
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#35
#35
UTFranklinVol said:
But so many argue Hooker sucked until Heupel but apparently Heupels magic didn't work on Milton lol.

Point is Heupel struggled without a Heisman level QB, which you can say about any coach on the planet. Lol

Like I said in my OP, Heupel now has HIS GUY for QB next year and we shall see. But I bet the apologists will still get in line next year if it doesn't work out.
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Heupel has not had a losing season at UT despite inheriting Pruitt’s huge mess.

And Hooker looked like Milton at VaTech. Hooker’s development did help Heupel, but you have to give Heupel credit for his development.

As for the current team, the QB clearly has held it back. And maybe Milton is just a lost cause. I give credit to Heupel for getting this team to 8 wins with the obvious limitations.

And Nico will tell us a lot about all of this. I suspect growing pains (just like when Peyton was a soph), but we should see better QB play next season.
 
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#36
#36
UTFranklinVol said:
According to what statistics?
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Stats don’t tell the whole story. The Oline sucked against Mizzou and Bama and Florida with run blocking in comparison to last season. We didn’t have Cooper Mays in the Florida game which made a huge difference but still last year it was better overall.
 
#37
#37
UTFranklinVol said:
I don't think so. Nobody has any facts or stats like I do. Just orange colored glasses
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OP did you post this thread to ask the question? Or are you really just making the statement that in your opinion Heup isn't a good coach and phrasing it like it's a question?
 
#38
#38
UTFranklinVol said:
I think I can make a pretty good argument that the 2023 team was basically the same (or better) except for Hooker and Hyatt.

We had a better more experienced OL than last year which is evidenced by the fact that they have given up 10 fewer sacks than last year. There was very little that Milton was genuinely pressured this year. The second evidence was how much better our running game was. That's 100% due to a better OL. Not to rob our RB of their due credit because they have had more yards per carry and more yards per game.

And I've pointed out that in spite of all the belly aching over the defense. It has actually produced better numbers than the last 2 years. The defense had one big issue this year and that issue was named Joe Milton who went 3-and-out like it was his job. Or defense was on the field way too much this year vs last but has so far outperformed last year.

So yes I am quite confident that I can say the 2023 team as a whole was basically the same (or in cases better) than 2022 with the main difference being no Hooker or Hyatt.
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I think blaming Joe Milton for all the 3 and outs is quite a stretch. I can think of two scenarios in the last two games that Squirrel dropped passes that would have resulted in a first down but instead we went 3 and out. Joe gets plenty of blame but it is quite unfair to blame him for all of them.
 
#40
#40
Folks, the only thing that is going to bring stability to this program is recruiting at a high level for another 3-4 years. After that, the foundation for continuing success and consistency on an annual basis will have been laid.
 
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#41
#41
knox-townVOL said:
OP did you post this thread to ask the question? Or are you really just making the statement that in your opinion Heup isn't a good coach and phrasing it like it's a question?
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Read the title. Next year means everything. I don't have an opinion if Heupel is a good coach or not. But it will be proven out next year.
 
#42
#42
volfan411 said:
I think blaming Joe Milton for all the 3 and outs is quite a stretch. I can think of two scenarios in the last two games that Squirrel dropped passes that would have resulted in a first down but instead we went 3 and out. Joe gets plenty of blame but it is quite unfair to blame him for all of them.
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But it is quite fair to blame him for MOST of them
 
#44
#44
UTFranklinVol said:
I think I can make a pretty good argument that the 2023 team was basically the same (or better) except for Hooker and Hyatt.

We had a better more experienced OL than last year which is evidenced by the fact that they have given up 10 fewer sacks than last year. There was very little that Milton was genuinely pressured this year. The second evidence was how much better our running game was. That's 100% due to a better OL. Not to rob our RB of their due credit because they have had more yards per carry and more yards per game.

And I've pointed out that in spite of all the belly aching over the defense. It has actually produced better numbers than the last 2 years. The defense had one big issue this year and that issue was named Joe Milton who went 3-and-out like it was his job. Or defense was on the field way too much this year vs last but has so far outperformed last year.

So yes I am quite confident that I can say the 2023 team as a whole was basically the same (or in cases better) than 2022 with the main difference being no Hooker or Hyatt.
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That argument isn't bad. But it misses one huge piece: team chemistry/personality.

The 2022 squad was driven. They were hungry. They were out to prove something. It started with Hendon, his ferocious dislike of losing, and spread through the whole team. They just WANTED it.

The 2023 lads, they're more relaxed. Calm. Cool. There are some go-getters among them, like Beasley and Pili and Pearce and Wright and Sampson ... but there are plenty who have adopted the "it's all good" persona of our QB.

That makes them two hugely different teams. And the results show it.

Go Vols!
 
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#45
#45
Hank Patrowski said:
I think Hooker was "his guy"
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Maybe Hooker was "his guy" after he proved himself in games, but the one troubling thing about Heupel and this staff is that he/they chose Milton over Hooker in 2021 during fall practice. The only thing that got Milton out as starter was his injury in the Pitt game.
 
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#46
#46
Next year hopefully is better with a QB that can run the offense which means pulling and running on RPO.
Milton is not that guy (not to knock on him) because he is so indecisive on reads and
Seems to not like contact. But what the hell, neither do I! Lol
 
#47
#47
DarkVolder said:
Stats don’t tell the whole story. The Oline sucked against Mizzou and Bama and Florida with run blocking in comparison to last season. We didn’t have Cooper Mays in the Florida game which made a huge difference but still last year it was better overall.
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Except the stats don't bear that out.

This year we have more yards per carry on the ground, more running yards per game and 50% fewer sacks. Joe Milton has had TONS of time to throw the ball and read the defense but sucks at it all.

Oh by the way the OL is doing all that while every defense in the country knows Joe Milton is no threat at all to throw the ball.

Also don't forget that last year we gave up 10 more sacks with a QB who knew how to scramble and not get caught and this year we have a statue at QB.

I'm just sorry but NO! This year's OL has done better and done it under much worse conditions given the QB. I don't care how many big "names" we had last year.
 
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#49
#49
I think you can ask this about any coach. Sometimes they're so stacked with 4 and 5 star talent that winning is just too easy. Do you think if Kirby Smart and Josh Heupel switched places for a couple of seasons that CJH could take Georgia and win a National Title? I definitely think so.
 
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#50
#50
VFL-82-JP said:
I don't agree that the 2023 squad was "basically the same team" as the 2022 squad. The differences were significant across the offense, defense and special teams.

And I'm not sure I agree 2024 is the litmus test. Yes, a lot of the lads will be "Heupelites" for the first time. But it's still a freshman QB, and it's still a roster that lost its "Covid fat" (all those players who got to play a 5th year thanks to the Covid exclusion). That latter is the rubber band snapping. And it's snapping for every team in college football in 2024.

So I'm waiting for 2025 to see what we really have. That will be a more "ordinary" transition from year to year. I think then we'll see what Josh Heupel and his system are fully capable of. That's the year I think we start lighting things up with our presence in championship contests (conference and national).

But still, I do hope next year is awesome, too. Of course.

Go Vols!
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Agree with you. Next year is important but we as fans need to stop thinking in absolutes. This year, next year, whichever year isn’t “the year” but a marker. If, over time, we improve and get competitive annually with UGA and Bama we are in good shape. If we see a couple years like this one then I’d agree it’s time to be concerned.

Keep in mind we will be starting a Redshirt Freshman at QB. May be a stud but will still need time to grow. I’m more interested in the development of returning players. Are DBs getting better? WRs and LBs? That’s the indicator we are on the path.
 
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