NFL.com Top 10 Players & Teams of the 1990s

#27
#27
99gator said:
What are the top 5 games that Peyton had while at Tennessee?
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Games or wins? I'll start with wins

1995 Georgia won on last sec FG by Jeff Hall
1995 Bama 41-14 ended their streak, started ours
1996 Citrus bowl over Ohio State
1997 win at UCLA
1997 SECCG 30-29 over Auburn
 
#28
#28
The point I am making with the question is that for the general public, there is no memorable Peyton Manning game.

There is no heisman moment.

Personnally, I think the right guy won in 1997.
 
#29
#29
livefaith said:
Heisman is a media popularity contest loaded with regional and politics. I hated it pre-Manning too.
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That played a significant factor when Eric Crouch won it in 2001.
 
#30
#30
99gator said:
The point I am making with the question is that for the general public, there is no memorable Peyton Manning game.

There is no heisman moment.

Personnally, I think the right guy won in 1997.
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Manning to Nash SEC Championship game after Auburn had made a run to put it away
 
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#31
#31
99gator said:
The point I am making with the question is that for the general public, there is no memorable Peyton Manning game.

There is no heisman moment.

Personnally, I think the right guy won in 1997.
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By that logic it's not about recognizing the best player - simply a media driven beauty pageant.

What was Bo Jackson's in 85? Testaverde's in 86? Ty Detmer's in 90?

Media changed the "rules" to their liking and openly campaigned for Woodson.
 
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#32
#32
99gator said:
The point I am making with the question is that for the general public, there is no memorable Peyton Manning game.

There is no heisman moment.

Personnally, I think the right guy won in 1997.
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Ridiculous on many fronts...the come from behind win in the SECCG vs Auburn would qualify as both a memorable game and a Heisman moment (whatever the hell that means)...Also had great games vs UCLA and Georgia in 1997...it's fine that you think Woodson was deserving and I'm sure some people here would even agree but to disparage Manning is just wrong - he was deserving as well. Can you name a "Heisman moment" from the likes of Eric Crouch, Jason White or Troy Smith?
 
#33
#33
99gator said:
The point I am making with the question is that for the general public, there is no memorable Peyton Manning game.

There is no heisman moment.

Personnally, I think the right guy won in 1997.
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340 yds/gm,37 td's,and an SEC championship,there are plenty of "moments"...

and by their criteria,Champ Bailey should've won it the next year because his numbers were miles ahead of Woodson's...and was a better shutdown CB on top of it in a league that threw it a lot more than the Big 10...
 
#34
#34
99gator said:
The point I am making with the question is that for the general public, there is no memorable Peyton Manning game.

There is no heisman moment.

Personnally, I think the right guy won in 1997.
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I don't necessarily disagree. Peyton's biggest game was a loss. Woodson's biggest game was a win because of him.
 
#35
#35
crusse10 said:
I don't necessarily disagree. Peyton's biggest game was a loss. Woodson's biggest game was a win because of him.
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Woodson got burned by Boston not once, but twice to keep OSU in that game.

He's lucky he returned that punt.

Revisionist history. Love it.
 
#37
#37
crusse10 said:
I don't necessarily disagree. Peyton's biggest game was a loss. Woodson's biggest game was a win because of him.
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Ummm, no. You can't say that a regular season SEC game was more important than the SECCG. I don't have a problem with people that think Woodson was also deserving, however. His contributions on offense and special teams were greatly exaggerated by the media though.
 
#38
#38
2. FSU.

I have to disagree with that ranking they received. During the 90's the ACC had sub-standard competition for FSU practically every year. The fact that FSU went for several years without a conference loss while in the ACC (first one against UVA in 1995) doesn't necessarily speak of how dominant FSU was but just how bad the level of competition was back then.

FSU had their own version of "Paul Blake" with a 30 yr. old QB and the benefit of playing a fairly soft schedule. There are several teams on this list more deserving of the #2 spot.
 
#39
#39
BowlBrother85 said:
Ummm, no. You can't say that a regular season SEC game was more important than the SECCG. I don't have a problem with people that think Woodson was also deserving, however. His contributions on offense and special teams were greatly exaggerated by the media though.
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The best opponents Peyton played against were Florida and Nebraska and we lost to both of them. The best opponents Woodson played against were Ohio State and Penn State. Against OSU he had an INT and returned the punt. He got a TD against PSU and shut down Jurevicius.

I'm not saying that Peyton is bad or anything, just that I don't think it's nearly the travesty that Vol fans consider it.
 
#40
#40
BowlBrother85 said:
Ridiculous on many fronts...the come from behind win in the SECCG vs Auburn would qualify as both a memorable game and a Heisman moment (whatever the hell that means)...Also had great games vs UCLA and Georgia in 1997...it's fine that you think Woodson was deserving and I'm sure some people here would even agree but to disparage Manning is just wrong - he was deserving as well. Can you name a "Heisman moment" from the likes of Eric Crouch, Jason White or Troy Smith?
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I'm not knocking Manning.

He was a worthy candidate.

Woodson had a better year. He seemed to make a spectacular play whenever his team needed it when the cameras were there.
 
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#41
#41
99gator said:
I'm not knocking Manning.

He was a worthy candidate.

Woodson had a better year. He seemed to make a spectacular play whenever his team needed it when the cameras were there.
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We dispute it for many reasons but I think the main reason is (and most people forget this of course) we were fighting for a national title going into the bowl games. The Florida game shouldn't have mattered at that point.

He had his 'moment' in the SEC Championship game that put them in position to win it all.

Of course, UM beat WSU earlier in the day and we went out and laid an egg against Nebraska with nothing to play for. But the Heisman had already been voted on at that point.
 
#42
#42
UTodd01 said:
We dispute it for many reasons but I think the main reason is (and most people forget this of course) we were fighting for a national title going into the bowl games. The Florida game shouldn't have mattered at that point.

He had his 'moment' in the SEC Championship game that put them in position to win it all.

Of course, UM beat WSU earlier in the day and we went out and laid an egg against Nebraska with nothing to play for. But the Heisman had already been voted on at that point.
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People also forget Manning ruptured bursa sack in his knee during SECCG prior to Orange Bowl and didn't practice much.

I remember hearing that Tee got most of the practice reps at QB during bowl prep.
 
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#43
#43
UTodd01 said:
We dispute it for many reasons but I think the main reason is (and most people forget this of course) we were fighting for a national title going into the bowl games. The Florida game shouldn't have mattered at that point.

He had his 'moment' in the SEC Championship game that put them in position to win it all.

Of course, UM beat WSU earlier in the day and we went out and laid an egg against Nebraska with nothing to play for. But the Heisman had already been voted on at that point.
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The Florida game was big not just because Tennessee lost but Manning did not play well. The most memorable moment for the game was the pick 6 he threw.

There are no rules for how someone wins a heisman.

It can be team success, stats, etc.

What was impressive about Woodson was the difference he seemed to make when the ball was so rarely in his hands.

Again, I asked for top 5 games as a vol and two posters only listed 2 games from his 1997 season
 
#44
#44
crusse10 said:
The best opponents Peyton played against were Florida and Nebraska and we lost to both of them. The best opponents Woodson played against were Ohio State and Penn State. Against OSU he had an INT and returned the punt. He got a TD against PSU and shut down Jurevicius.

I'm not saying that Peyton is bad or anything, just that I don't think it's nearly the travesty that Vol fans consider it.
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Nebraska was obviously after the voting, Florida was great in '97 (at least at home) but you still can't say that a regular season SEC game is bigger than the SECCG...I don't think Woodson winning was a travesty either but he was played up by the media as a two way player when in reality he only played about 8 snaps a game on offense and was a mediocre punt returner (Terry Fair had a much better year with returns). Woodson was a great CB and did have the punt return for a TD against Michigan and his team went undefeated so that's fine to think he deserved to win. I think there would have been a lot less bitterness from Tenn fans if Woodson hadn't been played up as a two way threat so much. It's also worth noting that there are no negative stats kept on CB's...We know that Peyton Manning threw a pick 6 to Tony George in the Florida game and have that stat in record but we really don't know how many times Woodson was beaten in '97 (David Boston definitely did once) and that was also to his advantage.
 
#45
#45
I'll also say that my thoughts are more like crusse here.

People act like they gave the heisman to a bum who wasn't a deserving candidate.

Maybe Manning should have won. Fine.

But, he wasn't screwed. Someone who had a fantastic season was voted the winner.

They didn't give the trophy to a scrub.
 
#46
#46
99gator said:
I'll also say that my thoughts are more like crusse here.

People act like they gave the heisman to a bum who wasn't a deserving candidate.

Maybe Manning should have won. Fine.

But, he wasn't screwed. Someone who had a fantastic season was voted the winner.

They didn't give the trophy to a scrub.
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No, I think most reasonable posters would agree with this. 1997 was an unusual year at the Downtown Athletic Club. Three of the Four finalists are now a lock for the Pro Football Hall of Fame (Randy Moss was also there - obviously Ryan Leaf won't be going to Canton).
 
#47
#47
99gator said:
The Florida game was big not just because Tennessee lost but Manning did not play well. The most memorable moment for the game was the pick 6 he threw.

There are no rules for how someone wins a heisman.

It can be team success, stats, etc.

What was impressive about Woodson was the difference he seemed to make when the ball was so rarely in his hands.

Again, I asked for top 5 games as a vol and two posters only listed 2 games from his 1997 season
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Be honest, you had no idea Tennessee, Michigan, and Nebraska were all playing for a NC in the '97 bowl season. Revisionist history leads you to believe it was only Michigan and Nebraska.

My point is, the case most people make against Manning is the Florida game - but at this point (when the Heisman was awarded) it meant exactly nothing.
 
#48
#48
Rivals should understand though why Tennessee fans have felt some disrespect at some of these post season awards...Reggie White should have won the Outland Trophy in 1983 (who the hell is Dean Steinkuhler?) and Al Wilson should have won the Butkus Award in 1998 (he wasn't even a finalist). The only time a player on a losing team won the Heisman just happened to be a year that we had a player finish a close second..You don't have to be a homer to see how we have gotten the short end of the stick on some of these awards.
 
#49
#49
UTodd01 said:
Be honest, you had no idea Tennessee, Michigan, and Nebraska were all playing for a NC in the '97 bowl season. Revisionist history leads you to believe it was only Michigan and Nebraska.

My point is, the case most people make against Manning is the Florida game - but at this point (when the Heisman was awarded) it meant exactly nothing.
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I remembered that fact just fine. Thank you.

I disagree completely with the other point.

There is no doubt in my mind that if Tennessee had beaten Florida (assuming Manning didn't look like N. Petetman), manning would have won the Heisman.

I think if Manning played like he did in 95 and Tennessee lost, he may have won the Heisman
 
#50
#50
99gator said:
I remembered that fact just fine. Thank you.

I disagree completely with the other point.

There is no doubt in my mind that if Tennessee had beaten Florida (assuming Manning didn't look like N. Petetman), manning would have won the Heisman.

I think if Manning played like he did in 95 and Tennessee lost, he may have won the Heisman
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How can you base it on what essentially became a meaningless game?
 
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