Nico on QB battle

[DaddyChad]

Understand your opinions just disagree. I feel a hardcore redshirt season is a waste of prep and development time when he’s the clear next man up.

I’ll be shocked if any QB body worth a scholarship signs up to be 3rd man up.

Yep. I think the landscape has shifted and most people don’t realize. It’s hard to stack talent at qb anymore regardless of the program.

 

[Ashevillevol]

We have 2 scholarship QBs, one’s a true freshman who needs weight. We could use another one.

And no one knows how long Nico will be here. If it goes like we hope you’re probably right. But none of us can predict the future. Literally anything can happen. It’s not worth burning a year playing him in 6 garbage time games, vs 4. Obviously if we need him then that’s a moot point.

With the way things stand presently, I just don’t see any portal qb wanting to come here knowing you’re going to be third string behind Joe and Nico. But who knows. Maybe there’s somebody.

 

[benholt06]

With the way things stand presently, I just don’t see any portal qb wanting to come here knowing you’re going to be third string behind Joe and Nico. But who knows. Maybe there’s somebody.

A guy with eligibility left would be 2nd string in a year. The portal ain’t lacking for guys in need of a home.

 

[Johnnyreb#VFL]

I’m sick and tired of hearing about Joe and Nico. I think Harrison Bailey wins the starting job in camp this fall.

I just threw up a little. Highest rated Noodle arm I ever seen. Did we ever find out if he was injured or just that weak of an arm?

 

[butchna]

I think many just hate the idea of redshirting such a touted prospect and I get it. It may turn out Nico and the staff agree, I have no idea.

If it comes down to a choice, that being to play him 4 games garbage time and preserve a year, or play him 5-6 games (looking at our schedule with even the most optimistic view that would be a stretch), the potential benefits for the former far outweigh those for the latter option. Redshirts are also effectively retroactive, so I don’t get the argument that it would change the approach to his development in any way.

And to the "he won’t be here long enough for it to matter" crowd: chances are that’s true. But we had a big time QB once who did play out his eligibility. And he didn’t have the NIL money. Any number of other things could happen, we just don’t know.

If you're referencing Dobbs? He wanted to redshirt (twice) and couldn't because he was the last man standing. Doing a revisionist spin, if he had participated his true freshman season before it was necessary he would have been much more prepared and presented a case to be THE guy in 2014.. instead of the inferior talent that was Worley. Redshirts don't go away if you don't utilize them so it's a handy item to have if there's an injury. Mebbe they can limit his touches to four games or less and he'll still be as developed and prepared for starting…just skeptical of that process. If you’re referencing PEYTON? That was a different animal. A self-anointed football historian from a storied football family with zero financial concerns. Wouldn’t count on Nico to mimic him and even come back a fourth season, but beyond that Peyton benefitted from struggles his true freshman season after being pressed into action. Not redshirting was absolutely no disservice to his development…quite the opposite.

 

[butchna]

A guy with eligibility left would be 2nd string in a year. The portal ain’t lacking for guys in need of a home.

Why leave a starting job to hope someone sucks or gets hurt?

 

[BADGER_VOL]

I’m 46 and some of ya’ll be making me feel old.
Most of all of you thinking Nico’s gonna take the job clearly weren’t around for Peyton’s freshmen year. Logically only way Nico starts as a frosh outside of injury to Milton is those of you saying it’ll happen also say Nico is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Manning was as a freshman. SIGNIFICANTLY.

 

[BADGER_VOL]

I thought Helton's knee injury was sufficient to keep him out? Didn't they try Stewart first? IIRC, Manning was 4th string when Colquitt took the first snap.

Yes…people are forgetting.

 

[butchna]

I’m 46 and some of ya’ll be making me feel old.
Most of all of you thinking Nico’s gonna take the job clearly weren’t around for Peyton’s freshmen year. Logically only way Nico starts as a frosh outside of injury to Milton is those of you saying it’ll happen also say Nico is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Manning was as a freshman. SIGNIFICANTLY.

You sound old enough to remember the differences in these eras they played. There was no 7x7 camps and year long training in Peyton's day and enrolling early was an anomoly. I don't think the majority posting in this thread are stumping for Nico to START. Personally I'm advocating he be top backup and get as many reps (garbage or otherwise) as our offense and fortune allows. It will be the difference in how fast Nico excels as the guy next season.

 

[benholt06]

If you're referencing Dobbs? He wanted to redshirt (twice) and couldn't because he was the last man standing. Doing a revisionist spin, if he had participated his true freshman season before it was necessary he would have been much more prepared and presented a case to be THE guy in 2014.. instead of the inferior talent that was Worley. Redshirts don't go away if you don't utilize them so it's a handy item to have if there's an injury. Mebbe they can limit his touches to four games or less and he'll still be as developed and prepared for starting…just skeptical of that process. If you’re referencing PEYTON? That was a different animal. A self-anointed football historian from a storied football family with zero financial concerns. Wouldn’t count on Nico to mimic him and even come back a fourth season, but beyond that Peyton benefitted from struggles his true freshman season after being pressed into action. Not redshirting was absolutely no disservice to his development…quite the opposite.

Regardless of any other QB’s decisions, past or future, you’re saying that a hypothetical extra couple of garbage time series which probably won’t even be available is going to be essential to his development? There’s nothing different about the approach. If you get to his hypothetical 5th game, there’s a choice. The idea that a couple of extra series while we’re spanking somebody will make or break his time here is silly to me. You’re adding connotations to a potential redshirt that simply don’t exist.

If the decision even comes up, it’s something I’m sure the staff has thought about and are cognizant of. There’s no "process" to it. You just don’t like the idea.

And also seem to know a lot about portal QBs that aren’t in the portal yet. Who said they have to be a transferring starter? It doesn’t even have to be a scholly player. But they’ll bring a body in I’d just about bet on it. It’s really not relevant anyway. If things are going well Nico just won’t be needed that much.

Milton made 4 appearances before Hooker’s injury. And one of those was the end-of-half Hail Mary attempt v Bama. Had HH not gone down, he probably would’ve played v Vandy and that’s it, totaling 5 appearances not counting the one play. If this year takes a similar path, you hold him out of the last game to save a year. It’s just the logical thing to do.

 

[butchna]

Regardless of any other QB’s decisions, past or future, you’re saying that a hypothetical extra couple of garbage time series which probably won’t even be available is going to be essential to his development? There’s nothing different about the approach. If you get to his hypothetical 5th game, there’s a choice. The idea that a couple of extra series while we’re spanking somebody will make or break his time here is silly to me. You’re adding connotations to a potential redshirt that simply don’t exist.

If the decision even comes up, it’s something I’m sure the staff has thought about and are cognizant of. There’s no "process" to it. You just don’t like the idea.

And also seem to know a lot about portal QBs that aren’t in the portal yet. Who said they have to be a transferring starter? It doesn’t even have to be a scholly player. But they’ll bring a body in I’d just about bet on it. It’s really not relevant anyway. If things are going well Nico just won’t be needed that much.

Milton made 4 appearances before Hooker’s injury. And one of those was the end-of-half Hail Mary attempt v Bama. Had HH not gone down, he probably would’ve played v Vandy and that’s it, totaling 5 appearances not counting the one play. If this year takes a similar path, you hold him out of the last game to save a year. It’s just the logical thing to do.

We'll agree that the staff will evaluate and go with the best decision...and disagree with everything else.

We have bodies galore in the FCS/PWO level with Moore, Shuler and Damron (amongst others). We don't need to import more. None of them will get the nod id Milton comes up lame, so if we're blowing out Mizzou in the 3rrd quarter we should get the 2024 starter some live time to adjust to the speed of the game. Doing that more than 4 times this season is perfectly feasible. Thinking we can engineer a fourth of fifth year out of a talent is foolhardy imo. There's no such thing as "saving a year" anymore. Time is ticking and you have a short window when you have a major talent.

 

[BADGER_VOL]

You sound old enough to remember the differences in these eras they played. There was no 7x7 camps and year long training in Peyton's day and enrolling early was an anomoly. I don't think the majority posting in this thread are stumping for Nico to START. Personally I'm advocating he be top backup and get as many reps (garbage or otherwise) as our offense and fortune allows. It will be the difference in how fast Nico excels as the guy next season.

Yes I would hope everyone would agree he’s our top back up. Who else? Lol But I was addressing those thinking somehow Milton had a short leash or could be overtaken by Nico. It isn’t happening. By the time Colquitt and Helton went down and Manning got in he was a very solid frosh. And he still was third string. It isn’t typical any freshman anywhere no matter how good overtakes upperclassman with experience who are established and good. It’s a pipe dream.

 

[butchna]

Yes I would hope everyone would agree he’s our top back up. Who else? Lol But I was addressing those thinking somehow Milton had a short leash or could be overtaken by Nico. It isn’t happening. By the time Colquitt and Helton went down and Manning got in he was a very solid frosh. And he still was third string. It isn’t typical any freshman anywhere no matter how good overtakes upperclassman with experience who are established and good. It’s a pipe dream.

We're not disagreeing then.

 

[BADGER_VOL]

We're not disagreeing then.

Proves we’re both smart.
jk

 

[IndianapolisVol]

I just threw up a little. Highest rated Noodle arm I ever seen. Did we ever find out if he was injured or just that weak of an arm?

Not sure but he didn’t win the starting job at UNLV last year, so there’s that. 5 star recruit

 

[benholt06]

We'll agree that the staff will evaluate and go with the best decision...and disagree with everything else.

We have bodies galore in the FCS/PWO level with Moore, Shuler and Damron (amongst others). We don't need to import more. None of them will get the nod id Milton comes up lame, so if we're blowing out Mizzou in the 3rrd quarter we should get the 2024 starter some live time to adjust to the speed of the game. Doing that more than 4 times this season is perfectly feasible. Thinking we can engineer a fourth of fifth year out of a talent is foolhardy imo. There's no such thing as "saving a year" anymore. Time is ticking and you have a short window when you have a major talent.

Disagree. We need a QB of some kind. It may become more of a need if Nico doesn’t progress physically or mentally like we hope. Two scholarship QBs isn’t enough. As to why another would come here, I’ll leave it up to Coach to make that pitch. If staff feels Gaston or someone else has earned it, that’s good by me.

I do really want Joe to have his year and succeed. It seems some are impatient and rather would see Nico go ahead and win the job, not putting you in that box but some are. I think it’s better for our program if the former happens, and that’s what I’ll root for.

All I’m saying is if it’s down to playing a couple of series in a game that’s already over or not and leaving a redshirt possibility open, the smart thing to do is clear, regardless of anything else. And I’ll die on that hill.

Nico being the backup all year is the healthy thing for Vol football and I believe is the plan. No matter how enamored we get with incoming talent, the roster has to be managed according to the best overall interests of the program.

 

[benholt06]

.

 

[butchna]

Disagree. We need a QB of some kind. It may become more of a need if Nico doesn’t progress physically or mentally like we hope. Two scholarship QBs isn’t enough. As to why another would come here, I’ll leave it up to Coach to make that pitch. If staff feels Gaston or someone else has earned it, that’s good by me.

I do really want Joe to have his year and succeed. It seems some are impatient and rather would see Nico go ahead and win the job, not putting you in that box but some are. I think it’s better for our program if the former happens, and that’s what I’ll root for.

All I’m saying is if it’s down to playing a couple of series in a game that’s already over or not and leaving a redshirt possibility open, the smart thing to do is clear, regardless of anything else. And I’ll die on that hill.

Nico being the backup all year is the healthy thing for Vol football and I believe is the plan. No matter how enamored we get with incoming talent, the roster has to be managed according to the best overall interests of the program.

I’m not in the camp of Nico winning the starting job…or even taking any important reps from Milton. Just getting available live action without the pointless exercise of redshirting the best quarterback on the roster after Milton. Hope you don’t die for so meaningless a reason.

 

[benholt06]

I’m not in the camp of Nico winning the starting job…or even taking any important reps from Milton. Just getting available live action without the pointless exercise of redshirting the best quarterback on the roster after Milton. Hope you don’t die for so meaningless a reason.

You don’t burn a year you could save for a few garbage time snaps. It’s really just that simple.

They may have a plan for him that includes more game time for him. That’s fine I’ll defer to them on what’s best for the kid. But if we’re winning with Milton, again I just don’t see meaningful snaps for him in much more than the 4 games. I’m fine if he doesn’t take it, but if they burn it for 15 or so garbage time snaps vs Vandy and that’s the difference, I’ll call it what it is: ill-advised.

No such thing as Too good for a redshirt. If you’re not getting the snaps anyway, might as well save it.

Anyway enough on this, it makes too much sense to me to concede it. But I think both guys are great and I’ll be their biggest, ugliest cheerleader.

 

[butchna]

You don’t burn a year you could save for a few garbage time snaps. It’s really just that simple.

They may have a plan for him that includes more game time for him. That’s fine I’ll defer to them on what’s best for the kid. But if we’re winning with Milton, again I just don’t see meaningful snaps for him in much more than the 4 games. I’m fine if he doesn’t take it, but if they burn it for 15 or so garbage time snaps vs Vandy and that’s the difference, I’ll call it what it is: ill-advised.

No such thing as Too good for a redshirt. If you’re not getting the snaps anyway, might as well save it.

Anyway enough on this, it makes too much sense to me to concede it. But I think both guys are great and I’ll be their biggest, ugliest cheerleader.

You’re not BURNING a year when you’re the next viable option at the most valuable position on the team. And it’s SAVED if you don’t use it…GONE if you do. If “15 or so garbage time snaps vs Vandy” ends up making the game click that much faster for the next season’s starter? Well worth it. We’re not running an election…no need to “concede” (either of us).

 

[benholt06]

You’re not BURNING a year when you’re the next viable option at the most valuable position on the team. And it’s SAVED if you don’t use it…GONE if you do. If “15 or so garbage time snaps vs Vandy” ends up making the game click that much faster for the next season’s starter? Well worth it. We’re not running an election…no need to “concede” (either of us).

If he’s what we think he is those snaps won’t make a difference. You can do all the mental gymnastics you want, in that situation there’s only one smart choice. He can either take it now while he’s the backup or never take it. Probably won’t make a damn either way, but the garbage snaps you’re inflating as so valuable aren’t worth it. They just aren’t. That’s our point of contention. I don’t feel any need to continue this.

 

[butchna]

If he’s what we think he is those snaps won’t make a difference. You can do all the mental gymnastics you want, in that situation there’s only one smart choice. He can either take it now while he’s the backup or never take it. Probably won’t make a damn either way, but the garbage snaps you’re inflating as so valuable aren’t worth it. They just aren’t. That’s our point of contention. I don’t feel any need to continue this.

It's not "gymnastics" because you disagree or dislike it. Enjoy our discussions better when you keep it honest. I've put as much thought (or more) into my position as you have.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

With the way things stand presently, I just don’t see any portal qb wanting to come here knowing you’re going to be third string behind Joe and Nico. But who knows. Maybe there’s somebody.

I sort of agree with you. But see, this is the SEC QBs, unless they have a steel curtain OL, get beat up. Sometimes, annihilated. So I wouldn't be overly surprised if some portal jumper came in. I hope it doesn't happen, but if it does, I bet it will be during the Bama game. I don't think our fan base realize how bad we hurt their ego, nor how much anger our victory has filled them. It's going to be a bloodbath.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

Yep. I think the landscape has shifted and most people don’t realize. It’s hard to stack talent at qb anymore regardless of the program.

I think the word stack will be replaced by the word stagger.

 

[benholt06]

It's not "gymnastics" because you disagree or dislike it. Enjoy our discussions better when you keep it honest. I've put as much thought (or more) into my position as you have.

It’s gymnastics because you went from not liking the idea of the “process" to implying he’s simply too good to worry about a redshirt, and even floated the possibility he might need it later…

I have seen some well thought out points from you. This ain’t one of em. You don’t like the idea of it so what you landed on after searching for a compelling justification is that a handful of snaps against Vandy’s (or insert other cupcake team here) second team are somehow going to make all the difference in the kid’s development.

So being honest, if the value of those snaps remains our disagreement, I remain unconvinced and see no point in going further. You can have the last word, I’m bored with this.