NIL $ and walk-ons vs scholarship spots

#26
#26
Isn't there a cap to overall team size with the NCAA.
Meaning you can have X amount of players, but only 85 can be on scholarship and only Y amount can travel for away games.

I think I recall this being the response to teams that were 'hoarding' players and having like 150 plus available to play.

To that end though, I think NIL has pretty much done away with the NCAA penalty of reduced scholarships. I'll be surprised if in the future the penalty isn't a reduced NIL percentage allowed or some such.
 
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#27
#27
UTFranklinVol said:
Technically no. Although I think the most that any current school has is around 130 players.

You can only have 85 scholarship players. The other 30-40 can be walk-ons.

The issue as I see it would be convincing an athlete to spend their NIL money on college tuition when another school will most likely give them a scholarship plus NIL money.

But it's theoretically possible I suppose.
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Plus there are other benefits to being on scholarship that walk-ons do not receive.
 
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#28
#28
I think the population of players who would be receptive to being a walk on instead of a scholarship is going to be pretty small. You’re talking about players with enough talent to be wanted by multiple power 5 schools. It would have to be a kid who was so in love with being a Vol ( or a Dawg - Stetson Bennet) that he would come as a walk on even though scholarships were being offered. Maybe a legacy who grew up dreaming of being a Vol and isn’t interested in playing anywhere. But the combination of talent and desire to only play for the Vols is gonna limit the population.
 
#30
#30
Fightmaker said:
My point was, that they could easily slide these kids in as walk ons and pay them tuition. Money does not seem to be the issue.
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The players have to represent someone to sell their name. While the collective could have money, they have to sell the player to some business or arrange appearances somewhere. Can't just give them money for doing nothing...
 
#31
#31
I "borrowed" a lot of money from my granny's assisted-living fund, and I intend to give it to a UT player--maybe a long snapper--because
he plays football and I don't think a college football player should have to go without a really nice car and a condo, and a fat bank account,
even if he's just 19 and getting a full scholarship. My mom asked if I knew anything about the missing money, and I told her she doesn't understand the importance of college games.

I'm sure my granny will be OK, once I find her.
 
#32
#32
LWSVOL said:
The players have to represent someone to sell their name. While the collective could have money, they have to sell the player to some business or arrange appearances somewhere. Can't just give them money for doing nothing...
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Yes I do understand that. Perhaps I am poorly communicating my thoughts.
Let’s say that we are stocked full of scholarship players. No loophole for a grey shirt, no way we could add another scholarship player. But then a transfer stud becomes available, and he wants to come here. Why could the collective not pay him whatever his market value was, plus his tuition, and have him be considered a walk on. Maybe it’s some kind of conflict of the NIL bylaws or whatever, I don’t know. But I think this was the original thought of the OP, and I don’t know why the various collectives around the country aren’t pursuing this angle.
 
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#33
#33
IndianaVol said:
Isn't there a cap to overall team size with the NCAA.
Meaning you can have X amount of players, but only 85 can be on scholarship and only Y amount can travel for away games.

I think I recall this being the response to teams that were 'hoarding' players and having like 150 plus available to play.

To that end though, I think NIL has pretty much done away with the NCAA penalty of reduced scholarships. I'll be surprised if in the future the penalty isn't a reduced NIL percentage allowed or some such.
Click to expand...

there is an SEC cap on travel for SEC games, 70. No cap on OOC games.

No cap on number of players on roster but typically around 120-130. You have to feed them so teams are not going to have 200 kids.
 
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#34
#34
Fightmaker said:
Yes I do understand that. Perhaps I am poorly communicating my thoughts.
Let’s say that we are stocked full of scholarship players. No loophole for a grey shirt, no way we could add another scholarship player. But then a transfer stud becomes available, and he wants to come here. Why could the collective not pay him whatever his market value was, plus his tuition, and have him be considered a walk on. Maybe it’s some kind of conflict of the NIL bylaws or whatever, I don’t know. But I think this was the original thought of the OP, and I don’t know why the various collectives around the country aren’t pursuing this angle.
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State law prohibits it. Players can only be paid for the USE of their name, image and likeness. Cannot be paid just because they are enrolled or on a sports team.
 
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#36
#36
Fightmaker said:
Yes I do understand that. Perhaps I am poorly communicating my thoughts.
Let’s say that we are stocked full of scholarship players. No loophole for a grey shirt, no way we could add another scholarship player. But then a transfer stud becomes available, and he wants to come here. Why could the collective not pay him whatever his market value was, plus his tuition, and have him be considered a walk on. Maybe it’s some kind of conflict of the NIL bylaws or whatever, I don’t know. But I think this was the original thought of the OP, and I don’t know why the various collectives around the country aren’t pursuing this angle.
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Well kinda my thought..was if a team is punished with a loss of scholarships like we were after the Pruitt stuff, then why not pay the scholly for the 5* with NIL $$ and also pay them..that was my real question.
 
#37
#37
gattisman said:
Hypothetically speaking,could a P5 school or any school with the way that NIL is now.Could a school bring in more student athletes than they are allowed by the NCAA restrictions and rules by paying the tution of said players? Example: With UT's punishment from NCAA we can have only ## of scholarship players.Why cant we or dont we go offer more athletes to play here at Tennessee? Example: A shool on probation limited to 50 scholar ships go out and recruit as many players they need with NIL $$.
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It would have to be a "great fit" situation. If a player is 5* material, he's not going to get just one offer.

If you're going the "we'll not get you a scholarship but we'll cover it with NIL" route, another program is going to negative recruit you with "Why are they disrespecting your talent? We've got a scholarship for you AND some NIL. You're worth that. Don't let them disrespect you like that."

That hurdle would be hard with an elite player. You might pull it off with a less valuable player.
 
#38
#38
gattisman said:
Well kinda my thought..was if a team is punished with a loss of scholarships like we were after the Pruitt stuff, then why not pay the scholly for the 5* with NIL $$ and also pay them..that was my real question.
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Wonder why no school has yet tried to do that? Against the law maybe...
 
#39
#39
LWSVOL said:
there is an SEC cap on travel for SEC games, 70. No cap on OOC games.

No cap on number of players on roster but typically around 120-130. You have to feed them so teams are not going to have 200 kids.
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I think 120 is correct. That is the number of players who can dress out for a home game. The SEC travel squad is smaller, but I have forgotten what it is. I think it is 85.
 
#40
#40
VOLINVONORE said:
I think 120 is correct. That is the number of players who can dress out for a home game. The SEC travel squad is smaller, but I have forgotten what it is. I think it is 85.
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its 70 unless it has changed in recent years. that is conference games, SEC rule. OOC you can travel whatever you want to pay expenses for

Just did a google and the league expanded SEC travel to 74 in 2023.
 
#42
#42
gattisman said:
Well kinda my thought..was if a team is punished with a loss of scholarships like we were after the Pruitt stuff, then why not pay the scholly for the 5* with NIL $$ and also pay them..that was my real question.
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A very good thought.
 
#43
#43
gattisman said:
Well kinda my thought..was if a team is punished with a loss of scholarships like we were after the Pruitt stuff, then why not pay the scholly for the 5* with NIL $$ and also pay them..that was my real question.
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This is done by SMART coaches that want to WIN. Find every loophole to get an edge, like use every trick to pay almost zero taxes. My father was a master in this regard, smart.
 
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#44
#44
Oldvoldad said:
No possible way of me having any clue if this is true, but I thought JJJ is not on scholly?
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After he made a late decision to return, he was going to cover his tuition through NIL deals that he had, but a scholarship opened up late in the process. I believe a transfer backed out.

There is no rule against receiving equivalent NIL money, in fact several schools have donors that are doing effectively that in sports that have partial scholarships like baseball, softball and track. But for a sport like football or basketball, it would be a tough sell to get a kid to turn down a scholarship somewhere else to hope to get NIL money.
 
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#46
#46
LWSVOL said:
A much bigger issue is convincing someone to pay a collective to provide NIL to someone walking-on. You would have to convince them they are a 5 star and then convince the 5 star to "walk-on". JMO

I'm sure there are walk-ons that get some NIL. Like maybe a few hundred bucks a month... fans would show up to get an autograph of a walk-on or two, if Nico was also there giving autographs. :)
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That was kind of my point. A 5* player isn't going to have any trouble finding NIL money AND a scholarship. He's not gonna walk on and pay his tuition.
 
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#47
#47
Aren’t there recruiting restrictions for walk-ons as well?

Hard for coaches to build a relationship with a kid if they can’t recruit them the same way as all the other coaches.
 
#48
#48
LWSVOL said:
A much bigger issue is convincing someone to pay a collective to provide NIL to someone walking-on. You would have to convince them they are a 5 star and then convince the 5 star to "walk-on". JMO

I'm sure there are walk-ons that get some NIL. Like maybe a few hundred bucks a month... fans would show up to get an autograph of a walk-on or two, if Nico was also there giving autographs. :)
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Nobody sees a 5 star taking an ALL NIL deal. But if you were competing with a schollie plus 40K NIL offer, would he consider a PWO plus 70k NIL offer? Maybe, but the place I see NIL is UT offsetting the NCAA penalty by getting a couple of guys on the cusp of P5 offers who would take a deal to play in the SEC instead of a full G5 ride. Total out of pocket neutral level NIL deal to get back to 85. Not going to beat out LSU for a kid but Tulane maybe.

In state guys would be a better bargain due to instate tuition. Our deal vs Memphis schollie? You can offer and see. Guys you danced with and like with lower floor but high ceiling evals. Bet every position coach has a list of close, but no cigar guys.

Bet the collectives have some discretionary money too. Just need a wink from the staff.
 
#49
#49
tnvolfan16 said:
i know this is all for discussion, but i think groups like SPYRE have thought of every scenerio possible to work NIL rules. I think if it were something they could do and get the athletes to get on board with, they would be doing it already
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No shat.
 
#50
#50
GUNTERSVOL said:
Nobody sees a 5 star taking an ALL NIL deal. But if you were competing with a schollie plus 40K NIL offer, would he consider a PWO plus 70k NIL offer? Maybe, but the place I see NIL is UT offsetting the NCAA penalty by getting a couple of guys on the cusp of P5 offers who would take a deal to play in the SEC instead of a full G5 ride. Total out of pocket neutral level NIL deal to get back to 85. Not going to beat out LSU for a kid but Tulane maybe.

In state guys would be a better bargain due to instate tuition. Our deal vs Memphis schollie? You can offer and see. Guys you danced with and like with lower floor but high ceiling evals. Bet every position coach has a list of close, but no cigar guys.

Bet the collectives have some discretionary money too. Just need a wink from the staff.
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your talking about 2 kids who most likely would not play just to get from 83 to 85? We are going to have several really good receivers who are on scholarship this coming year get minimal reps in backup roles. I just don't see the point in doing it. They would not get someone that could indeed help.
 
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