NLRB Rules College Athletes are EMPLOYEES

[Voltopia]

One can argue, and the Supreme Court did, that an enterprise generating the kind of revenue the NCAA and schools have for decades should compensate the workers, ie. players, at a reasonable rate and have less revenue to plow back into the business.

So yes, the facilities are magnificent, the recruiting budgets are high, the nutritional staff, physical therapy staff and rehab facilities are top notch, the dressing rooms are palatial, and the school isn't getting rich.

It still doesn't mean the players were compensated at market value.

I don't think I argued they were compensated at market value. I was saying that I agreed colleges should not be running professional sports companies, but was alos getting ahead of a common retort some like to fire off. "Well that's what they've been doing all along dur," to which I would counter that to the extent they have, it's been almost solely with the intent of growing their overall capacity for supporting athletic opportunities at their schools. Not with the intent of generating profit purely for profit's sake. In other words, what a actual business would do.

For a hundred years, college sports occupied a very unique niche where they had the backing of their schools, alumni, and regional intersting, (and certain government classifications), and were able to parlay that into creating brands strong enough to power unimaginably large athletic programs that could offer scholarships across a variety of sports. They took it too far. And probably knew they were doing so, but saw no other way to move forward. None of the major football powers were going to willingly fall behind whoever was the most recent to sell out - and sell out hard. And so it's gone. In a world where companies are struggling more and more to build connections with consumers, the value of college sports brands will only continue to rise -- until they're unrecognizable and inauthentic. Whatever happens after that is anyone's guess.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Strawman. I said nothing about profit.
Every penny UT makes from the athletic program goes back into improving the school and facilities.

The University's first mission is to do whatever it takes to ensure long term financial success in order to perform the other compo debts of the mission. That includes sports, especially football.

If I'm wrong, show me a university that keeps the doors open without money. I'll wait.

What did you mean my long term financial success?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I don't think I argued they were compensated at market value. I was saying that I agreed colleges should not be running professional sports companies, but was alos getting ahead of a common retort some like to fire off. "Well that's what they've been doing all along dur," to which I would counter that to the extent they have, it's been almost solely with the intent of growing their overall capacity for supporting athletic opportunities at their schools. Not with the intent of generating profit purely for profit's sake. In other words, what a actual business would do.

For a hundred years, college sports occupied a very unique niche where they had the backing of their schools, alumni, and regional intersting, (and certain government classifications), and were able to parlay that into creating brands strong enough to power unimaginably large athletic programs that could offer scholarships across a variety of sports. They took it too far. And probably knew they were doing so, but saw no other way to move forward. None of the major football powers were going to willingly fall behind whoever was the most recent to sell out - and sell out hard. And so it's gone. In a world where companies are struggling more and more to build connections with consumers, the value of college sports brands will only continue to rise -- until they're unrecognizable and inauthentic. Whatever happens after that is anyone's guess.

The NCAA argued to the Supreme Court that "we're traditionally amateur and important to the fabric of America" without success in Alston.

9-0.

I get the brand loyalty to college ball but the tradition card can only be played so long. If it looks like a pro locker room, looks like a pro stadium, sells media like a pro franchise, builds training and rehab facilities like a pro franchise......... tradition won't help you.

 

[volfan102455]

The NCAA argued to the Supreme Court that "we're traditionally amateur and important to the fabric of America" without success in Alston.

9-0.

I get the brand loyalty to college ball but the tradition card can only be played so long. If it looks like a pro locker room, looks like a pro stadium, sells media like a pro franchise, builds training and rehab facilities like a pro franchise......... tradition won't help you.

So if it becomes the Knoxville blah blah, and they no longer wear orange or blast out Rocky Top, or run through the T etc. it becomes a "Knoxville" professional team not a team built on traditions created by the history of the university. There is no alma mater, there is no homecoming tradition, there is no Pride of the Southland Band or Smokey, etc. Those trademarks and traditions make the University a lot of money outside of sporting events and define the most visible STATE university in Tennessee.

I have absolutely no interest in a "Knoxville Professional Football" team.

If you really think they can cut ties with the university and still have the level of success they have today, I don't know what to tell you. Those brands sell.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

So if it becomes the Knoxville blah blah, and they no longer wear orange or blast out Rocky Top, or run through the T etc. it becomes a "Knoxville" professional team not a team built on traditions created by the history of the university. There is no alma mater, there is no homecoming tradition, there is no Pride of the Southland Band or Smokey, etc. Those trademarks and traditions make the University a lot of money outside of sporting events and define the most visible STATE university in Tennessee.

I have absolutely no interest in a "Knoxville Professional Football" team.

If you really think they can cut ties with the university and still have the level of success they have today, I don't know what to tell you. Those brands sell.

I think the schools could and should lease the brand, the facilities, the stadium, etc for big money and use that money to fund non-revenue sports.

They simply don't need the hassle of owning pro sports franchises.

Look, given the situation where elite college athletes are becoming millionaires before ever playing a down, where those athletes are extensively tutored and prompted for what they must do to remain eligible, and the players may easily transfer next year and every year throughout college.......

Tell me again, other than "that's what I've always done," why it matters that the school is involved.

The traditional college student athlete model is dying. I get the connection to the school, especially if you attended or have pulled for them for years, but it's already going/gone pro.

 

[Voltopia]

The NCAA argued to the Supreme Court that "we're traditionally amateur and important to the fabric of America" without success in Alston.

9-0.

I get the brand loyalty to college ball but the tradition card can only be played so long. If it looks like a pro locker room, looks like a pro stadium, sells media like a pro franchise, builds training and rehab facilities like a pro franchise......... tradition won't help you.

I'm not arguing any of that at all. I'm just saying (to the poster you were speaking to, or others) that the schools have not, in the past, operated as actual for-profit businesses. They've been in a very unique niche, and for a time it was navigable, but somewhere along the way the schools lost the point.

I realize tradition won't help me. I know they'll sell the Peyton Manning off the stadium wraparound boards if it makes them a million bucks. I get it. It's all for sale now.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I don't think I argued they were compensated at market value. I was saying that I agreed colleges should not be running professional sports companies, but was alos getting ahead of a common retort some like to fire off. "Well that's what they've been doing all along dur," to which I would counter that to the extent they have, it's been almost solely with the intent of growing their overall capacity for supporting athletic opportunities at their schools. Not with the intent of generating profit purely for profit's sake. In other words, what a actual business would do.

For a hundred years, college sports occupied a very unique niche where they had the backing of their schools, alumni, and regional intersting, (and certain government classifications), and were able to parlay that into creating brands strong enough to power unimaginably large athletic programs that could offer scholarships across a variety of sports. They took it too far. And probably knew they were doing so, but saw no other way to move forward. None of the major football powers were going to willingly fall behind whoever was the most recent to sell out - and sell out hard. And so it's gone. In a world where companies are struggling more and more to build connections with consumers, the value of college sports brands will only continue to rise -- until they're unrecognizable and inauthentic. Whatever happens after that is anyone's guess.

For more than 100 years, college sports occupied s unique position of violating antitrust laws and getting away with it.

 

[Voltopia]

For more than 100 years, college sports occupied s unique position of violating antitrust laws and getting away with it.

Awwww. And yet somehow, someway, the players kept accepting the scholarships and attending college to play. How curious.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I'm not arguing any of that at all. I'm just saying (to the poster you were speaking to, or others) that the schools have not, in the past, operated as actual for-profit businesses. They've been in a very unique niche, and for a time it was navigable, but somewhere along the way the schools lost the point.

I realize tradition won't help me. I know they'll sell the Peyton Manning off the stadium wraparound boards if it makes them a million bucks. I get it. It's all for sale now.

I know you get it. Like me, you probably wish something could've been done to head this off.

As the NCAA moves toward "revenue sharing" which I thought would help preserve college football, I see that it's just the opposite. Revenue sharing invites the courts to conclude "What business shares revenue with anyone but owners/shareholders OR employees?" I can't think of another reason for a business to share revenue, but I'm willing to listen.

I don't think the NCAA had a chance once they lost O'Bannon years ago. It was just a matter of time before the model exploded in Antitrust lawsuits.

It's sad. It sucks. If handled poorly by the schools it will REALLY suck for non-revenue sports, I'm afraid.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Awwww. And yet somehow, someway, the players kept accepting the scholarships and attending college to play. How curious.

They actually had no choice. College was the only route because of pro age/college restrictions.

Then they couldn't get NIL because the NCAA blocked it. As soon as they could, some became millionaires quickly.

Then they didn't transfer all the time because the NCAA wouldn't allow it. As soon as they could, they transferred wholesale.

Without the NCAA enforcing illegal Antitrust violations, things changed very fast.

 

[Voltopia]

They actually had no choice. College was the only route because of pro age/college restrictions.

Then they couldn't get NIL because the NCAA blocked it. As soon as they could, some became millionaires quickly.

Then they didn't transfer all the time because the NCAA wouldn't allow it. As soon as they could, they transferred wholesale.

Without the NCAA enforcing illegal Antitrust violations, things changed very fast.

All very true, if we accept that the players are employees working at jobs. Which, again, that's more or less what they are now, so in the current context I cannot argue the changes. Now that the courts have ruled, the only thing to do is get it over with. Forty years ago, I think, not the same story, but - but genie, TV money, giant bottle, etc.

But true or not, without those enforcement mechanisms, the race to the bottom will be swift and, mostly, certain. I think, for the ones who never gave a damn about the history or the college and community connections, that's just super. TV networks, for example, give no damns. For the rest, eh. We'll hang on as well as we can, for as long as we can.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

All very true, if we accept that the players are employees working at jobs. Which, again, that's more or less what they are now, so in the current context I cannot argue the changes. Now that the courts have ruled, the only thing to do is get it over with. Forty years ago, I think, not the same story, but - but genie, TV money, giant bottle, etc.

But true or not, without those enforcement mechanisms, the race to the bottom will be swift and, mostly, certain. I think, for the ones who never gave a damn about the history or the college and community connections, that's just super. TV networks, for example, give no damns. For the rest, eh. We'll hang on as well as we can, for as long as we can.

It's money. It's always money.

I recall the stink when Johnny was gonna get $100k to coach. "No college coach is worth that" and on and on.

If I'd had crystal ball I'd have seen it coming then but I loved that feeling of watching Johnny, a little deep in his cups sometimes but always entertaining, leading the Vols. I felt he was worth whatever he could get.

It became a business and I loved every bit of it. All of the TV exposure, the Power T sales, the building of the brand by hook or hundred dollar handshake.... all of it.

I'll take my share of the blame.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

They did

Awwww. And yet somehow, someway, the players kept accepting the scholarships and attending college to play. How curious.

by know enough to get good lawyers back then. That's changed, for the better.

 

[WillisWG]