No. 2 Al Qaeda leader dead from drone strike

#77
#77
7thgroupvolfan said:
So we should just set back and let the enemy organize his forces and bring the fight to us? Or do we strike him when he's weak and prevent such attacks?

If you've seen any combat then you know the answer to this question. Your position on it from a former military stand point is a disgrace.
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I am not at all worried about al Qeada bringing the fight to us.

For most of the time I was in, I felt the same way you do now; I do not anymore. I think that life, all life, is too valuable to waste. If I am strictly choosing between my life and the life of someone who poses an immediate an imminent threat to my life, and my only resort is to kill that person, then I will kill that person. Outside of that, I think there are plenty of other options that the U.S. has completely bypassed, and, in so doing, has ended up killing plenty of innocent women, children, and noncombatants.

I care little about whether or not you think I am a disgrace.
 
#79
#79
Gramps said:
I do not agree with TRUT on several issues but I do think he has been in combat.

There are men that have been in combat that do have different opinions.
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obviously

I don't believe he's seen a lick of combat. His position on the whole thing is backwards and goes against everything that is taught in warfare.

He may have set behind his desk and tracked ticks or something, but highly doubtful he was ever on the ground engaging the enemy.
 
#80
#80
bamacheats said:
On the positive side, no American soldiers were killed.
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and we took care of business.

On the other hand, who is to say they were innocent? Kids being killed are the only ones that come to mind. It is a cross that we must carry and strive to do our very best not to let happen.
 
#81
#81
therealUT said:
I am not at all worried about al Qeada bringing the fight to us.

For most of the time I was in, I felt the same way you do now; I do not anymore. I think that life, all life, is too valuable to waste. If I am strictly choosing between my life and the life of someone who poses an immediate an imminent threat to my life, and my only resort is to kill that person, then I will kill that person. Outside of that, I think there are plenty of other options that the U.S. has completely bypassed, and, in so doing, has ended up killing plenty of innocent women, children, and noncombatants.

I care little about whether or not you think I am a disgrace.
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What other options would that be?
 
#83
#83
therealUT said:
If I walk away after attacking you and then you attack me, that is vengeance, not self-defense. Self-defense is resorting to the use of force in order to defend and preserve your own life.




Then, we invade Afghanistan because al Qaeda, not the Taliban (even though those guys are *******s, too), killed 3,000 Americans and over the course of the next eleven years we sink billions of dollars and 1,800 soldiers and counting (plus countless others that have been critically wounded) for what?

We could have easily spent billions of dollars on defense measures in America; we could have saved 1,800 lives; we could have told Americans not to sit idly by while someone hijacks your plane with a box-cutter...
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Sometimes vengance is needed and well deserved!

You have a slight point here. Like Iraq, thousands of mistakes were made that lengthened the war, endangered our people and cost lives.
 
#84
#84
7thgroupvolfan said:
What other options would that be?
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1. Diplomacy and negotiations with the Taliban and other terrorist organizations. The pervasive myth that if you negotiate with terrorists you will create more terrorists has never been proven; it is more than likely a fallacy.

2. If we do resort to fighting foreign wars, stop fighting counterinsurgencies. In order to even win counterinsurgencies one must place their own forces in much graver danger, and counterinsurgencies always entail greater danger for the local civilian populations. If we are going to fight foreign wars, we would be much better off just colonizing and instituting our own government, our own economy, and our own police forces. I view this as just as wrong, fundamentally, as fighting any other foreign wars; however, this would be a much less costly approach (in terms of capital, soldiers lost, and innocent individuals killed).

3. Get rid of our military presence in the Middle East. One of the few grievances that makes it onto each and every terrorist organization's list of grievances against the U.S. is the presence of an infidel army in Saudi Arabia.

4. Cut Israel loose; that seems to be the other grievance that makes it on to each and every list of grievances.
 
#87
#87
therealUT said:
1. Diplomacy and negotiations with the Taliban and other terrorist organizations. The pervasive myth that if you negotiate with terrorists you will create more terrorists has never been proven; it is more than likely a fallacy.

2. If we do resort to fighting foreign wars, stop fighting counterinsurgencies. In order to even win counterinsurgencies one must place their own forces in much graver danger, and counterinsurgencies always entail greater danger for the local civilian populations. If we are going to fight foreign wars, we would be much better off just colonizing and instituting our own government, our own economy, and our own police forces. I view this as just as wrong, fundamentally, as fighting any other foreign wars; however, this would be a much less costly approach (in terms of capital, soldiers lost, and innocent individuals killed).

3. Get rid of our military presence in the Middle East. One of the few grievances that makes it onto each and every terrorist organization's list of grievances against the U.S. is the presence of an infidel army in Saudi Arabia.

4. Cut Israel loose; that seems to be the other grievance that makes it on to each and every list of grievances.
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#1 actually did make me laugh.
 
#90
#90
In hindsight, we over-reacted to 9/11. We should have massively punished AQ and the Taliban, stayed out of Iraq and not tried to transform Afghanistan. We should have beefed up intelligence and focused on stopping plots rather than trying to eradicate AQ all around the globe.

I'm ambivalent about the drone attacks. Glad some of these SoBs are gone but wonder if we are simply kicking the can down the road and making as many new terrorists as we kill.
 
#91
#91
volinbham said:
In hindsight, we over-reacted to 9/11. We should have massively punished AQ and the Taliban, stayed out of Iraq and not tried to transform Afghanistan. We should have beefed up intelligence and focused on stopping plots rather than trying to eradicate AQ all around the globe.

I'm ambivalent about the drone attacks. Glad some of these SoBs are gone but wonder if we are simply kicking the can down the road and making as many new terrorists as we kill.
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Plus 1
 
#92
#92
volinbham said:
In hindsight, we over-reacted to 9/11. We should have massively punished AQ and the Taliban, stayed out of Iraq and not tried to transform Afghanistan. We should have beefed up intelligence and focused on stopping plots rather than trying to eradicate AQ all around the globe.

I'm ambivalent about the drone attacks. Glad some of these SoBs are gone but wonder if we are simply kicking the can down the road and making as many new terrorists as we kill.
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We did all of that.

And then it grew.
 
#93
#93
volinbham said:
In hindsight, we over-reacted to 9/11. We should have massively punished AQ and the Taliban, stayed out of Iraq and not tried to transform Afghanistan. We should have beefed up intelligence and focused on stopping plots rather than trying to eradicate AQ all around the globe.

I'm ambivalent about the drone attacks. Glad some of these SoBs are gone but wonder if we are simply kicking the can down the road and making as many new
terrorists as we kill.
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Kicking the can down the road is something the USA does great and has for years.
 
#97
#97
Gramps said:
In YorkVol I put my trust when it concerns the military.
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Crap, responsibility...

In all seriousness, there are some good perspectives on this board and I learn something every day, mostly from those with opposing view points.
 
#98
#98
volinbham said:
In hindsight, we over-reacted to 9/11. We should have massively punished AQ and the Taliban, stayed out of Iraq and not tried to transform Afghanistan. We should have beefed up intelligence and focused on stopping plots rather than trying to eradicate AQ all around the globe.

I'm ambivalent about the drone attacks. Glad some of these SoBs are gone but wonder if we are simply kicking the can down the road and making as many new terrorists as we kill.
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There is a lot to be said for this. Unfortunately the State Department, the key partner in the national security policy process is woefully unprepared to handle any sort of crisis, and even worse at executing any long term program. Consequently DOD becomes the defacto tool for every problem.nnwhen all you have is a hammer...
 
#99
#99
YorkVol said:
Crap, responsibility...

In all seriousness, there are some good perspectives on this board and I learn something every day, mostly from those with opposing view points.
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You're ok as long as you don't accept TRUT as the truth.
 
#100
#100
YorkVol said:
Crap, responsibility...

In all seriousness, there are some good perspectives on this board and I learn something every day, mostly from those with opposing view points.
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I do not know you but I have been reading your posting for a while, solid poster.

i would think you are use to responsibility.

There are some very knowledgeable posters on this board.

Thank you for your service sir.
 
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