non-partisan feelings on bailout

#76
#76
TheDeeble said:
I've read enough that made me believe the bill just wasn't what needed to be done. For the most part, the only people I could find supporting it, were govt official/politicians. Just about everything else I've seen said it's a bad idea.
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I think we're seeing that the markets as a whole think the bailout is necessary.
 
#77
#77
Get ready for the final hour sell off... down 618 right now, maybe we hit down 1000

getting crushed on my trade today
 
#82
#82
TheDeeble said:
Although there was a lot of folks saying it wouldn't be pretty, just that the bill would have made it worse.
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it couldn't have hurt. and sending hte message that congress would help out the credit crisis is a message that was needed.
 
#83
#83
droski said:
it couldn't have hurt. and sending hte message that congress would help out the credit crisis is a message that was needed.
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It could have hurt badly, what if passed and the market collapsed anyway? The Government is still going to bail some banks out anyway and we did need an attitude shift in this country.
 
#84
#84
MontereyVol said:
It could have hurt badly, what if passed and the market collapsed anyway? The Government is still going to bail some banks out anyway and we did need an attitude shift in this country.
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well if they don't do something the market will definetly collapse. and they will have to bail out a lot of banks that they wouldnt' have had to bail out if they did something.
 
#85
#85
Can you imagine what the foreign markets are going to do tonight? And then we react more tomorrow....

The cycle this is going to start, and the amount of wealth that will be destroyed in the next 48 hours, is mind boggling.

Necessary? Justified? Inevitable? I don't know. But a lot of people are going to lose their jobs and their homes because of this and its going to be a long and painful recovery.
 
#86
#86
droski said:
well if they don't do something the market will definetly collapse. and they will have to bail out a lot of banks that they wouldnt' have had to bail out if they did something.
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Don't get me wrong, I know we haven't hit bottom yet but I do believe you have to pay for your sins. We were freewheeling this since the mid 90's it is going to take time for us to recover. I honestly think the way this bailout ended up would have just maintained the problem for a few more months, maybe a couple of years and then what? Do it again?
 
#87
#87
MontereyVol said:
Don't get me wrong, I know we haven't hit bottom yet but I do believe you have to pay for your sins. We were freewheeling this since the mid 90's it is going to take time for us to recover. I honestly think the way this bailout ended up would have just maintianed the problem for a few more months, maybe a couple of years and then what? Do it again?
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negative. the bailout is actually a long term solution intended to free up capital at our lending institutions, who will presumably have to avoid a similar pile of loans going forward.
 
#88
#88
MontereyVol said:
Don't get me wrong, I know we haven't hit bottom yet but I do believe you have to pay for your sins. We were freewheeling this since the mid 90's it is going to take time for us to recover. I honestly think the way this bailout ended up would have just maintained the problem for a few more months, maybe a couple of years and then what? Do it again?
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the corporate executives have paid for their sins by being fired. i'm not sure why the rest of us should get screwed by losing our jobs too. the market for these bonds isn't working. that is a serious problem. that is something that need to be addressed now or we WILL go into a great depression. this doesn't solve the problem but it should help the credit markets settle down. sometimes you just have to bite the bullett even if it tastes horrible.
 
#89
#89
BigPapaVol said:
negative. the bailout is actually a long term solution intended to free up capital at our lending institutions, who will presumably have to avoid a similar pile of loans going forward.
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That's what I am talking about, we have to get back to, or get better regulation, than before the late 90's. Since this bill did nothing like that in its stipulations it made it useless, you have to fix the problems before trying to clean them up.
 
#92
#92
droski said:
the only people thinking this didn't need to be done are those who don't understand how screwed we are right now.
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Some feel the long term consequences of the plan as written would be worse than what we may experience otherwise.

BigPapaVol said:
negative. the bailout is actually a long term solution intended to free up capital at our lending institutions, who will presumably have to avoid a similar pile of loans going forward.
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But at what cost? Putting the treasury and the fed above the law? Giving more power and control to the government? Allowing them to take the proceeds that they stand to make from this and use it to fund socialist programs?

I'm not claiming to begin to understand all of this but to me, there are bigger issues at hand here. I'm interested to hear thoughts of the details on this.
 
#93
#93
vol_freak said:
Some feel the long term consequences of the plan as written would be worse than what we may experience otherwise.
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I respectfully disagree. The short term consequences of doing nothing are far worse than the average person realizes. we'll see virtually ever major bank go under and we'll see a lot of layoffs and we will see a depression. I have zero doubt about this. My company just put out a thing saying conforming mortgages need 60% equity to get a loan at the prefered rate. If these people can barely get loans what do you think is going to happen to the rest of us? or how about your companies payroll financing? or your car loan? or your credit cards? the world is ending and i'm not even joking. this is the worst thing the credit markets have seen since hte great depression.
 
#94
#94
droski said:
I respectfully disagree. The short term consequences of doing nothing are far worse than the average person realizes. we'll see virtually ever major bank go under and we'll see a lot of layoffs and we will see a depression. I have zero doubt about this. My company just put out a thing saying conforming mortgages need 60% equity to get a loan at the prefered rate. If these people can barely get loans what do you think is going to happen to the rest of us? or how about your companies payroll financing? or your car loan? or your credit cards? the world is ending and i'm not even joking. this is the worst thing the credit markets have seen since hte great depression.
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Surely something can be done that does not involve the government buying anything? You see a problem with that? Wouldn't changing the accounting rules people are bitching about instantly solve some of these issues?
 
#95
#95
droski said:
I respectfully disagree. The short term consequences of doing nothing are far worse than the average person realizes. we'll see virtually ever major bank go under and we'll see a lot of layoffs and we will see a depression. I have zero doubt about this. My company just put out a thing saying conforming mortgages need 60% equity to get a loan at the prefered rate. If these people can barely get loans what do you think is going to happen to the rest of us? or how about your companies payroll financing? or your car loan? or your credit cards? the world is ending and i'm not even joking. this is the worst thing the credit markets have seen since hte great depression.
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I'm not advocating doing nothing, but I'm not for that plan as written. I don't like being put in a situation where the government is going to rescue everyone by doing things that are unconstitutional. I think the long term consequences of that plan are far worse than anyone recognizes.

I think a depression could happen regardless.

I'm still trying to understand all of this myself. It seems to me that it's a lose lose situation in some regards. I wish I knew the answer.

Can someone clearly explain to me where this money is coming from exactly? I'm not clear on that and if it's just an infusion of money can't we expect to likely see double digit inflation rates. I saw where Bloomberg was estimating $5 trillion dollars.
 
#96
#96
allvol123 said:
Surely something can be done that does not involve the government buying anything? You see a problem with that? Wouldn't changing the accounting rules people are bitching about instantly solve some of these issues?
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You are thinking more along the same lines as me. I would like to find some alternative. I don't know exactly how it would work, but I know they were looking into just insuring these loans versus buying them all.
 
#97
#97
vol_freak said:
You are thinking more along the same lines as me. I would like to find some alternative. I don't know exactly how it would work, but I know they were looking into just insuring these loans versus buying them all.
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That is a solution that got bandied about, but got tossed for the bailout plan.
 
#98
#98
vol_freak said:
You are thinking more along the same lines as me. I would like to find some alternative. I don't know exactly how it would work, but I know they were looking into just insuring these loans versus buying them all.
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Yea, I have the same worries as you. The financial possibilties sound scary, but the path down socialism I find scarier.
 
#99
#99
vol_freak said:
I'm not advocating doing nothing, but I'm not for that plan as written. I don't like being put in a situation where the government is going to rescue everyone by doing things that are unconstitutional. I think the long term consequences of that plan are far worse than anyone recognizes.

I think a depression could happen regardless.

I'm still trying to understand all of this myself. It seems to me that it's a lose lose situation in some regards. I wish I knew the answer.

Can someone clearly explain to me where this money is coming from exactly? I'm not clear on that and if it's just an infusion of money can't we expect to likely see double digit inflation rates. I saw where Bloomberg was estimating $5 trillion dollars.
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I guess what i am trying to argue is that they can't wait. at all. the market wants a sign that congress is going to help. another week and we could easily see a lot more banks go down. is it a perfect solution? nope.

the money is going to come from the treasury selling treasuries which are yielding 4%. we shouldn't be worried about double digit inflation we should be worried about deflation which is far far worse.
 
#100
#100
vol_freak said:
You are thinking more along the same lines as me. I would like to find some alternative. I don't know exactly how it would work, but I know they were looking into just insuring these loans versus buying them all.
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you are buying these bonds at 65 cents on the dollar. insuring them would cost trillions more.
 
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