Nothing like celebrating at a church

#51
#51
dsbyrd said:
Turning off my sarcasm for a moment, I understand why abortion is such an intensely emotional issue for many people. If you buy into the the premise that it constitutes infanticide, I can see why it moves you deeply.

For those of us who don't buy that premise, and who see it as a civil rights issue for mothers it is different. I do respect your opinion and I understand this is a deeply divisive issue for our nation.

On so many issues, political, football, or whatever, we should all take a moment to at least to see things from the other factions' perspective.
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I can agree with that. I just work out my belief with the way I feel God would have me to believe. I use the bible as my guide.

Night for real! :)
 
#53
#53
bigtime said:
War and Murder are completely different things. Your gonna come back with how Iraq is murder but its all perspective
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Thank you mister obvious. Otherwise there wouldn't be a politics forum, or any debate in any other venue.
 
#54
#54
bigtime said:
War and Murder are completely different things. Your gonna come back with how Iraq is murder but its all perspective
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What's the difference between war and murder for hire? What if it's not your own country being attacked, but instead you're a soldier that's been sent somewhere in Asia on, say, a peacekeeping mission to protect the interests of your country's economy? Does it change the moral perspective of the individual solider?

Killing a lump of cells without a brain is murder. Shooting a man in the face because your commanding officer told you to is fine because it's "war." It's not the positions I necessarily disagree with; it's certainty coupled with a disregard for consistency. On both sides. These are tough issues.
 
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#55
#55
Vercingetorix said:
The problem with abortion as a political issue in this country -- on both sides, really -- is that people aren't able to admit ambiguity into the argument. They don't make distinctions between an hour-old fertilized cell and an eight-month viable fetus. It's black and white, good and evil. It becomes, as this thread argues, "infanticide," as though ending a month-old pregnancy before a brain has even formed is morally equivalent to walking into the neonatal unit of a hospital and sticking a knife into a newborn, screaming infant. It's making whichever piece of dogma you believe about it into the prism through which you view the entire political world.
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OOOOHHH! I wanna play! Ok, I like the way you've approached this subject first of all, but lemme give you a thought to ponder. If you take a seed, plant it in soil......is it not "alive" when it starts to root? It's clearly not a plant yet, but is it not still alive? If you pluck it from the ground are you not killing it?

I agree with you it ought to be pretty cut and dry when it comes to late term abortion. But stopping the ability for a baby to form is indeed still "killing" it.

What gets on my nerves are the agenda seekers bringing up the "rape victims" or potentially retarded babies due to age, etc. The percentage of those cases are so small you shouldn't be allowed to mention it. Obviously in cases like that I think you do what's right for the mom & baby. The flat out truth of the matter is women are getting pregnant & deciding they don't want a baby & killing 'em. I mean crap, spades a spade.

Now peace out ya'll, go vols, go God, & help us find a great coach.
 
#56
#56
Vercingetorix said:
I clearly shouldn't be sticking my face into an abortion thread at 1:30 in the morning, but half of all fertilized eggs never even attach to the uterine wall; they just roll right on out and the woman never knows that she was "pregnant." Does that mean God kills more babies than anybody?
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You are right and since everyone born eventually dies, then God kills us all, correct? I would hardly equate some natural event to that of a purposeful act of ending the existence of something.
 
#57
#57
rockytophigh said:
OOOOHHH! I wanna play! Ok, I like the way you've approached this subject first of all, but lemme give you a thought to ponder. If you take a seed, plant it in soil......is it not "alive" when it starts to root? It's clearly not a plant yet, but is it not still alive? If you pluck it from the ground are you not killing it?

I agree with you it ought to be pretty cut and dry when it comes to late term abortion. But stopping the ability for a baby to form is indeed still "killing" it.

What gets on my nerves are the agenda seekers bringing up the "rape victims" or potentially retarded babies due to age, etc. The percentage of those cases are so small you shouldn't be allowed to mention it. Obviously in cases like that I think you do what's right for the mom & baby. The flat out truth of the matter is women are getting pregnant & deciding they don't want a baby & killing 'em. I mean crap, spades a spade.

Now peace out ya'll, go vols, go God, & help us find a great coach.
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I bet you would think it was worth mentioning if you had been raped by your father & got pregnant because of it. You would not want some idealogue telling you THAT life was sacred. Or would you?
 
#58
#58
temat said:
I bet you would think it was worth mentioning if you had been raped by your father & got pregnant because of it. You would not want some idealogue telling you THAT life was sacred. Or would you?
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I'd want it mentioned if alien snails from the planet Zircon raped me with a filing cabinet too but really, it's such a small percentage we're talking about, it is just about as revelant.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#59
#59
rockytophigh said:
I'd want it mentioned if alien snails from the planet Zircon raped me with a filing cabinet too but really, it's such a small percentage we're talking about, it is just about as revelant.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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& read the next line of what I wrote please. in ALL cases of rape, I think you offer services to the female...if that's what she chooses
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#60
#60
rockytophigh said:
& read the next line of what I wrote please. in ALL cases of rape, I think you offer services to the female...if that's what she chooses
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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I agree.

The arguement here is, people who want to use abortion a wholesale means of birth control.
 
#61
#61
My point is sometimes situations exist that can't be covered under a policy of "absolutely not".
 
#62
#62
The fact that some people compare slaughtering of innocent, babies that have no choice in the matter to the men & women who sign up for the MILITARY knowing they're signing up with the possibility to go to war is beyond me. If you're for abortion, be for it. If you're against it, be against it. Don't go equating abortion to the killing of troops in the war.
As far as the Bible goes, God has ordained wars throughout scripture. He fought with his people in some instances...so you can't say that abortion and war are the same thing in the sense that they're both senseless killings. But some people still will.
 
#63
#63
Etownvol said:
The fact that some people compare slaughtering of innocent, babies that have no choice in the matter to the men & women who sign up for the MILITARY knowing they're signing up with the possibility to go to war is beyond me. If you're for abortion, be for it. If you're against it, be against it. Don't go equating abortion to the killing of troops in the war.
As far as the Bible goes, God has ordained wars throughout scripture. He fought with his people in some instances...so you can't say that abortion and war are the same thing in the sense that they're both senseless killings. But some people still will.
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Good point!
 
#65
#65
BigPapaVol said:
not really. Not in the context of this thread, which was about infanticide.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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So we have to stick to the context of the thread? If so, VN is closing down. The last few pages were talking about abortion. There was discussion about being opposed to abortion but not being opposed to the war. Sorry. Should I run my posts by you next time before I submit them?
 
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#67
#67
allvol123 said:
You are right and since everyone born eventually dies, then God kills us all, correct? I would hardly equate some natural event to that of a purposeful act of ending the existence of something.
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We can play this game.

I guess you have never attributed God to sparing somebody's life? Survive car wreck? Remission of cancer? The pious are more than willing to credit God with stepping in during "miraculous" events. If he is willing and able to do that than he should be willing and able to stop the innocent dying of unborn babies through miscarriages. I saw a headline once after the Tsunami that said "Man attributes God for saving his life". The funny thing was on the same newspaper article another headline read "10,000 Die". Oh the narcissim of the saved.
 
#68
#68
Etownvol said:
The fact that some people compare slaughtering of innocent, babies that have no choice in the matter to the men & women who sign up for the MILITARY knowing they're signing up with the possibility to go to war is beyond me. If you're for abortion, be for it. If you're against it, be against it. Don't go equating abortion to the killing of troops in the war.
As far as the Bible goes, God has ordained wars throughout scripture. He fought with his people in some instances...so you can't say that abortion and war are the same thing in the sense that they're both senseless killings. But some people still will.
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So I guess you would be opposed to a draft if it were to come up again?
 
#69
#69
Jonesey said:
So I guess you would be opposed to a draft if it were to come up again?
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You'd have to give me a scenario, b/c technically, I'd be available...though passing the physical part would be somewhat impossible...I'm quite out of shape, you know.:)
My point is that we can't compare men & women who sign up to serve under their own will with an innocent baby that's killed with no choice in the matter. It's 2 completely separate issues.
 
#70
#70
Vercingetorix said:
The problem with abortion as a political issue in this country -- on both sides, really -- is that people aren't able to admit ambiguity into the argument. They don't make distinctions between an hour-old fertilized cell and an eight-month viable fetus. It's black and white, good and evil. It becomes, as this thread argues, "infanticide," as though ending a month-old pregnancy before a brain has even formed is morally equivalent to walking into the neonatal unit of a hospital and sticking a knife into a newborn, screaming infant. It's making whichever piece of dogma you believe about it into the prism through which you view the entire political world.
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Brilliant and insightful!
 
#71
#71
rockytophigh said:
I'd want it mentioned if alien snails from the planet Zircon raped me with a filing cabinet too but really, it's such a small percentage we're talking about, it is just about as revelant.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Hey- keep your sick fantasies to yourself!
 
#72
#72
Etownvol said:
The fact that some people compare slaughtering of innocent, babies that have no choice in the matter to the men & women who sign up for the MILITARY knowing they're signing up with the possibility to go to war is beyond me. If you're for abortion, be for it. If you're against it, be against it. Don't go equating abortion to the killing of troops in the war.
As far as the Bible goes, God has ordained wars throughout scripture. He fought with his people in some instances...so you can't say that abortion and war are the same thing in the sense that they're both senseless killings. But some people still will.
Click to expand...

Etownvol said:
You'd have to give me a scenario, b/c technically, I'd be available...though passing the physical part would be somewhat impossible...I'm quite out of shape, you know.:)
My point is that we can't compare men & women who sign up to serve under their own will with an innocent baby that's killed with no choice in the matter. It's 2 completely separate issues.
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I am not an advocate of war, don't think we should be killing people, but if I were drafted would I be forced to kill even though I don't believe in it?
 
#73
#73
Jonesey said:
I am not an advocate of war, don't think we should be killing people, but if I were drafted would I be forced to kill even though I don't believe in it?
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Well we'll get whats coming to us when Obama tries to make friends and peace with all these people. Problem is, they see being nice as weakness and fear. They only understand brute force.
 
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