obama a coward?

#51
#51
shortgameVol said:
YOu got hammered in the original debate. Stop trying to twist it in your favor. No one is trying to argue they didn't prosper financially because of being in the office. I just said they didn't seek the job for the money. And they didn't. Case closed
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You can't prove either way why they seek the job so the case isn't closed. It's all just opinion.

To me it's obvious that they don't do it out of principle, otherwise they wouldn't cave and play politics so much. I'd say they do it for gain whether money, fame, or power.
 
#52
#52
nbakerld said:
You can't prove either way why they seek the job so the case isn't closed. It's all just opinion.

To me it's obvious that they don't do it out of principle, otherwise they wouldn't cave and play politics so much. I'd say they do it for gain whether money, fame, or power.
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which reinforces my earlier point about ego
 
#53
#53
lawgator1 said:
Article was written prior to passage of the UN resolution and action by U.S. government. Author complained that Obama wasn't taking a stand.

He has in fact now taken a stand.

/thread.
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I have to wonder if you read the article and understand the premise. The approach on Libya is simply one example of an overall leadership style that is being examined.

The "head snapping turnaround" as David Gergen describes it on Libya is a further example of the overall message in the article.
 
#54
#54
shortgameVol said:
I am not an Obama supporter, but to suggest he is a coward is mind numbingly stupid. Heck, to suggest any POTUS is a coward is mind numbingly stupid. It takes more courage than anyone in this forum has just to run for POTUS, exposing yourself to unprecedented and continuous scrutiny and analysis every single hour of every single day, not to mention the difficult decisions that have to be made on a daily basis.

None of us have a clue
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The author specifically says he is not calling Obama a coward. I don't believe anyone in this thread is either.
 
#55
#55
I'll repost this article as evidence regarding the supposition in the Economist article

Europe Pressure, Arab Support Helped Turn U.S. - WSJ.com

Just last Monday, when Nicolas Sarkozy urged Hillary Clinton to get the U.S. behind an international intervention in Libya, she demurred. The U.S. Secretary of State warned the French president that a war could be risky and bloody, say officials from both countries who were briefed on the exchange.
Yet by the weekend, France, the U.S. and an international coalition stood poised to take "all necessary measures"—code for military strikes—in Libya, under United Nations authority.

In hindsight, the meeting at the Elysée Palace in Paris was the launch point for four frantic days of diplomacy that turned the Obama administration toward intervention, western and Arab diplomats say. A lot of factors drove the shift, they say, including the administration's concern about being out of step with the changes sweeping the Arab world and of being outmaneuvered by the U.K. and especially France, both more aggressive advocates of intervention.
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#56
#56
nbakerld said:
You can't prove either way why they seek the job so the case isn't closed. It's all just opinion.To me it's obvious that they don't do it out of principle, otherwise they wouldn't cave and play politics so much. I'd say they do it for gain whether money, fame, or power.
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And some opinions are much more informed than others

:yes:
 
#57
#57
MG1968 said:
which reinforces my earlier point about ego
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I don't think there is one iota of doubt all these guys have huge egos. My point against yours on the original "ego" statement was that it does take great courage to open yourself up to the scrutiny the POTUS faces on a daily basis
 
#58
#58
shortgameVol said:
I don't think there is one iota of doubt all these guys have huge egos. My point against yours on the original "ego" statement was that it does take great courage to open yourself up to the scrutiny the POTUS faces on a daily basis
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Seems we need two views of courage then. If simply opening yourself up to scrutiny= courage then it is another thing entirely to make tough decisions based on deeply held convictions as opposed to those that will benefit you personally/politically.

I think Clinton is viewed as someone who had shifting convictions but always made politically shrewd decisions. That is a different courage then someone like Churchill.
 
#59
#59
volinbham said:
Seems we need two views of courage then. If simply opening yourself up to scrutiny= courage then it is another thing entirely to make tough decisions based on deeply held convictions as opposed to those that will benefit you personally/politically.

I think Clinton is viewed as someone who had shifting convictions but always made politically shrewd decisions. That is a different courage then someone like Churchill.
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I will agree with this assessment
 
#63
#63
shortgameVol said:
YOu got hammered in the original debate. Stop trying to twist it in your favor. No one is trying to argue they didn't prosper financially because of being in the office. I just said they didn't seek the job for the money. And they didn't. Case closed
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who said that was the sole reason? i beleive i listed it as one of many. you are starting to sound like gibbs. declare victory in any argument without the argument. sad.
 
#65
#65
shortgameVol said:
:ermm:
I don't know of a single POTUS in my lifetime that did it for the money. In fact, I know there hasn't been a POTUS in my lifetime that did it for the money.

I am sure the fame and power can be attractive, but I highly doubt it's an even trade-off. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to notice how the Presidents have been aging while in office. Especially true of Reagan, Clinton, W Bush and now Obama.
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The money has been immense or Clinton, who was never wealthy prior.
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#66
#66
shortgameVol said:
I don't think there is one iota of doubt all these guys have huge egos. My point against yours on the original "ego" statement was that it does take great courage to open yourself up to the scrutiny the POTUS faces on a daily basis
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Don't buy this silliness in the least. Being a salesy lie tosser isn't about courage.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#68
#68
shortgameVol said:
I don't think there is one iota of doubt all these guys have huge egos. My point against yours on the original "ego" statement was that it does take great courage to open yourself up to the scrutiny the POTUS faces on a daily basis
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if that's your standard, Sarah Palin has bigger 'nads than Obama will ever hope to have. When has he ever been subjected to even a quarter of the media scrutiny endured by Palin?
 
#69
#69
I nominate Rod Blagovich (sp?) as most courageous leader - he really put himself out there for some criticism. A true hero.
 
#70
#70
droski said:
who said that was the sole reason? i beleive i listed it as one of many. you are starting to sound like gibbs. declare victory in any argument without the argument. sad.
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I never declare victory without winning. And I always bring the data. :hi:
 
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