Obama caps executive pay tied to bailout money

#26
#26
droski said:
the majority of the ceo's who ran these companies into the ground have been fired as have most of hte top executives. now we are talking about their replacements. all this is is people pissed that other people are making a lot more money then they are. no more, no less. and if we let the banks fail you'd be fired by now too. all you are doing is making sure all the top talent goes to private equity or hedgefunds or set up their own shop. this is already happening btw.
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If that is the case, then BPVs argument faoils because the capable execs aren't going to those jobs, anyway. What is going to happen is that young and hungry studs. albeit untested, are going to have to come in and take on these jobs with enormous potential on the back end if they can turn these banks around.

In 10 years, we will be reading about brilliant guys who agreed to take the lower front end salaries, got the ships righted, and are reaping billions.
 
#28
#28
lawgator1 said:
If that is the case, then BPVs argument faoils because the capable execs aren't going to those jobs, anyway. What is going to happen is that young and hungry studs. albeit untested, are going to have to come in and take on these jobs with enormous potential on the back end if they can turn these banks around.

In 10 years, we will be reading about brilliant guys who agreed to take the lower front end salaries, got the ships righted, and are reaping billions.
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How does my argument fail? Capable execs have moved into those positions, but they will now leave because of the caps.

Those untested folks is who you're advocating take over just so you can support a senseless socialist policy?
 
#30
#30
rjd970 said:
I'm sure they were all tossed on the street without any kind of severence package.
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i have zero problems with obama eliminating severence packages. chuck prince is a crook for instance. but that money is already gone. we are talking about tarp money.
 
#32
#32
BigPapaVol said:
broad RE market implosion of this nature hasn't happened in America before. Banks, almost to the one, are heavily invested in Real Property. When all of that devalued, it totally eroded their book equity and forced them into a horde of decisions to appease the FDIC.

I'd like to point fingers at someone here, but it was a myriad of factors that devalued the broader real estate market. None of these CEOs could have done anything to avoid the mess they're in, IMO.
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I had to sell my place last year for a job transfer. I had no choice. So I couldn't have done anything to avoid taking the loss on my property last year, does that mean I am still not responsible, or I deserve a bailout?

The CEO's were in charge and at the top. Whether they could have stopped it or not is immaterial. It come with the territory, if they don't like it, they should have taken another job.
 
#34
#34
droski said:
i have zero problems with obama eliminating severence packages. chuck prince is a crook for instance. but that money is already gone. we are talking about tarp money.
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I think the way TARP has been used up to this point is theft from American taxpayers and socialization of the elite. And for the record, I feel the same way about the majority of Obama's garbage plan too.
 
#35
#35
rjd970 said:
If the top talent is bringing in $20 million, then take a chunk of that to pay his bonus. But not a single penny of TARP should go to bonuses. Period.
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I don't think BO's plan allows for this. The way I understand it, compensation is capped at $500K if TARP or other govt $ is involved.

There's a stock provision for compensation but that only pays after government stock ownership gets paid.

In short, talent (real talent) will flee the institutions that desperately need it.

It's kind of cutting your nose off to spite your face. If the govt really wants these institutions to succeed, this action appears to be too punative.
 
#36
#36
rjd970 said:
The CEO's were in charge and at the top. Whether they could have stopped it or not is immaterial. It come with the territory, if they don't like it, they should have taken another job.
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again, they got fired. Replacing them with with folks willing to take $500k per year gigs is stupidity.
 
#38
#38
volinbham said:
I don't think BO's plan allows for this. The way I understand it, compensation is capped at $500K if TARP or other govt $ is involved.

There's a stock provision for compensation but that only pays after government stock ownership gets paid.

In short, talent (real talent) will flee the institutions that desperately need it.

It's kind of cutting your nose off to spite your face. If the govt really wants these institutions to succeed, this action appears to be too punative.
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and that's the crux of the whole debate. You need serious talent to generate the revenues to get out of this hole, but you're capping the talent to those willing to work for $500K. It's just senseless. It's like trying to fix the Detroit Lions with my checkbook.
 
#39
#39
rjd970 said:
I think the way TARP has been used up to this point is theft from American taxpayers and socialization of the elite. And for the record, I feel the same way about the majority of Obama's garbage plan too.
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the supposed elite are losing jobs at a far higher rate than the average american worker. who is making out on this exactly? the stockholders. nope. the rich? no how are they making out on this?

i will say it again. those pissed about this are just angry other people are making a lot more money than they are.
 
#40
#40
BigPapaVol said:
and that's the crux of the whole debate. You need serious talent to generate the revenues to get out of this hole, but you're capping the talent to those willing to work for $500K. It's just senseless. It's like trying to fix the Detroit Lions with my checkbook.
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I understand the point your making with the $500K, but it is ridiculous to me that the government has to step in and pony up the cash required for talent that is based on market value.

Because these banks have a stranglehold on the economy they get to be entitled to government intervention in a market that didn't work for them. Must be nice not to have to play by the rules you require everybody else to play by.
 
#41
#41
rjd970 said:
I understand the point your making with the $500K, but it is ridiculous to me that the government has to step in and pony up the cash required for talent that is based on market value.

Because these banks have a stranglehold on the economy they get to be entitled to government intervention in a market that didn't work for them. Must be nice not to have to play by the rules you require everybody else to play by.
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you are acting like the govt is handing these people money. the loses that the banks have are almost completely unrelated to salaries and bonuses. if the banks went under someone would pay for these guys services. if the taxpayers are going to have an interest in these companies, don't we want them to be as profitable as possible in the future?
 
#42
#42
droski said:
the supposed elite are losing jobs at a far higher rate than the average american worker. who is making out on this exactly? the stockholders. nope. the rich? no how are they making out on this?

i will say it again. those pissed about this are just angry other people are making a lot more money than they are.
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Completely wrong. I, for one, don't care how much they make. It is the princip;e I am pissed at. And I disagree that the rich aren't making out ok in this. When executives get ridiculous severence packages in the wake of failure, and wall streeters b!tching that they are going to get governemnt sponsored salaries based on market values, it's kind of hard to feel sorry for them.
 
#43
#43
droski said:
you are acting like the govt is handing these people money. the loses that the banks have are almost completely unrelated to salaries and bonuses.
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Without the government money, these banks wouldn't be around to pay their employees anything. Now they are upset because the government is requiring it gets its money back with interest before they start handing out bonuses like business as usual.
 
#44
#44
rjd970 said:
Completely wrong. I, for one, don't care how much they make. It is the princip;e I am pissed at. And I disagree that the rich aren't making out ok in this. When executives get ridiculous severence packages in the wake of failure, and wall streeters b!tching that they are going to get governemnt sponsored salaries based on market values, it's kind of hard to feel sorry for them.
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how many executives have gotten ridiculous severance packages? a couple of dozen max?

and of course it's about how much money they are making. you aren't bitching about the tellar who works for citibank keeping her $10 an hour job.
 
#45
#45
droski said:
the supposed elite are losing jobs at a far higher rate than the average american worker. who is making out on this exactly? the stockholders. nope. the rich? no how are they making out on this?

i will say it again. those pissed about this are just angry other people are making a lot more money than they are.
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Its not a question of whether the "elite," as a whole group, are making out well or not. The fact is that a main reason that the economy is stalled is a complete lack of trust and faith in the system.

Most people I know have either outright abandoned or made major conservative changes to their 401ks or other investment vehicles because they do not believe the system is remotely fair and, further, that it is rigged against them.

As long as people think the system is set up to permanently reward the eltie at their expense, then no one is coming back in. And in my mind the best and surest way to give the worker bees a little faith is to say that, we can't use your investment dollars to keep these folks unbelievably wealthy and now we aren't going to take your tax dollars to do it, either.

You can debate the individual effects of it all you want. But the point of it is to assure people they there is someone looking out for them. Given the need for that confidence, I can't see how any more reports of what most view as corporate largese can be good for the country or the economy.
 
#46
#46
lawgator1 said:
Most people I know have either outright abandoned or made major conservative changes to their 401ks or other investment vehicles because they do not believe the system is remotely fair and, further, that it is rigged against them.
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most people you know must be complete idiots to bail out after the market drops 40%. i could care less if stupid people have faith in the system. edit: you've repeated this mantra that this is what the average american thinks. well the average american is an idiot and frankly i don't believe the majority of this country believes this bs. call me an idealist. i don't know a single person i consider intelligent who believes what you just posted.
 
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#47
#47
droski said:
most people you know must be complete idiots to bail out after the market drops 40%. i could care less if stupid people have faith in the system. edit: you've repeated this mantra that this is what the average american thinks. well the average american is an idiot and frankly i don't believe the majority of this country believes this bs. call me an idealist. i don't know a single person i consider intelligent who believes what you just posted.
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It doesn't matter what the "smart" people think if its the millions of idiots who are driving the bus. You may not agree with them. You may be right and they be completely wrong.

But if you want to see the "Main Street" people spending and investing again, its a matter of giving them some sense that they aren't being taken for a lifetime-long ride. If you don't understand that this is the sentimentality out there, then you aren't about to be able to turn things around.
 
#48
#48
the average middle class idiot doesn't know or care about politics or the tarp. they'll start spending more when they have more money or when idoit box tells them that the world is doing better.
 
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#49
#49
lawgator1 said:
It doesn't matter what the "smart" people think if its the millions of idiots who are driving the bus. You may not agree with them. You may be right and they be completely wrong.

But if you want to see the "Main Street" people spending and investing again, its a matter of giving them some sense that they aren't being taken for a lifetime-long ride. If you don't understand that this is the sentimentality out there, then you aren't about to be able to turn things around.
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Oh, I see. We're back to the John Q. Average schtick.
 
#50
#50
What would Andrew Jackson do?

Andrew_Jackson.jpg
 
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