Obama says iran has the right to nuke power

#80
#80
now venezuela getting in on the act... the next generation is going to live in a very dangerous world...
 
#81
#81
Is it really that accepted that they will be ready to attack in the order of weeks to months? What do you mean by nuclear weapons platform? From what I have heard/read, it is believed that the Iranians have enriched uranium, but not yet 20% U235 vs. 80% U238 (235the weapon-usable form of Uranium).

The actual amount required for a weapon isn't discussed publicly (hopefully), but it is generally accepted that it is larger than 20%. I would say that they are certainly further than weeks away, considering the enriching needs plus assembly requirements. Months could be possible, but are there signs that they are moving forward with the steps necessary for going from less than 20% to weapons-usable? I'm not so sure. Unless there are movements recently that I am unfamiliar with, I'm not sure that Iran is taking "that next step".

I believe that we have very capable people watching the situation closely. I also believe that Iran is feeling confident....I also believe that Israel would like to show them a thing or two....
 
#82
#82
TennTradition said:
Is it really that accepted that they will be ready to attack in the order of weeks to months? What do you mean by nuclear weapons platform? From what I have heard/read, it is believed that the Iranians have enriched uranium, but not yet 20% U235 vs. 80% U238 (235the weapon-usable form of Uranium).

The actual amount required for a weapon isn't discussed publicly (hopefully), but it is generally accepted that it is larger than 20%. I would say that they are certainly further than weeks away, considering the enriching needs plus assembly requirements. Months could be possible, but are there signs that they are moving forward with the steps necessary for going from less than 20% to weapons-usable? I'm not so sure. Unless there are movements recently that I am unfamiliar with, I'm not sure that Iran is taking "that next step".

I believe that we have very capable people watching the situation closely. I also believe that Iran is feeling confident....I also believe that Israel would like to show them a thing or two....
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this might be a HUGE understatement, i believe that they feel empowered by BHO
 
#87
#87
Shursh said:
aww where did LG go?? we're starting to preach to the choir now...
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Sorry, been in Boston this wknd for a quick vacation.

I assume this is brought up again with the news on Iran having a secret reactor.

My understanding is that the reactor is a violation of the NPT, and the world is reacting.

That does not mean that Iran is barred from nuclear power. Its international law that they can. Just George Bush said a year ago.

I, Like every other sensible person in the world, is very worried about iran an nuclear weapons. What I am also against is the right's usual fear mongering, based on bad assumptions or outright falsehoods, that the status quo has changed one iota because Obama is president. That has zero to do with where things stand on this.

And anyone whose priority is dealing with the Iranian weapon issue -- as opposed to perpetuating more fear and misunderstanding at a critical time for pure political gain -- will tell you the same thing.
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#88
#88
The facility near Qom is not really a reactor as far as I've heard, but an enrichment plant (e.g., uranium centrifuges). It is quite similar to the Natanz plant, most likely. However, this one was operating "in the dark" while the other was getting all the fuss.

This plant was likely announced because it became apparent to Iran that we (and others) already knew about it.
 
#89
#89
lawgator1 said:
Sorry, been in Boston this wknd for a quick vacation.

I assume this is brought up again with the news on Iran having a secret reactor.

My understanding is that the reactor is a violation of the NPT, and the world is reacting.

That does not mean that Iran is barred from nuclear power. Its international law that they can. Just George Bush said a year ago.

I, Like every other sensible person in the world, is very worried about iran an nuclear weapons. What I am also against is the right's usual fear mongering, based on bad assumptions or outright falsehoods, that the status quo has changed one iota because Obama is president. That has zero to do with where things stand on this.

And anyone whose priority is dealing with the Iranian weapon issue -- as opposed to perpetuating more fear and misunderstanding at a critical time for pure political gain -- will tell you the same thing.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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I dug this thread up with the hopes that someone with more knowledge on the US and Israeli weapons capabilities could tell me if either had weapons capable of taking out a facility so deep underground.

I had heard that Israel is growing more concerned and believe their window of opportunity may be closing. If they attacked these facilities but couldn't do the damage needed to shut them down they would most likely not get a second chance.
 
#90
#90
TennTradition said:
The facility near Qom is not really a reactor as far as I've heard, but an enrichment plant (e.g., uranium centrifuges). It is quite similar to the Natanz plant, most likely. However, this one was operating "in the dark" while the other was getting all the fuss.

This plant was likely announced because it became apparent to Iran that we (and others) already knew about it.
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IIRC Israel has voiced concern that Iran may actually be further along than previously thought. I wonder if this is based on any new intelligence or not?

How long would it take for the enrichment process to achieve weapons grade material? Iran has been testing platforms capable of hitting Europe and Israel. Is this just flexing or are they testing in anticipation of arming a weapon ready for deployment?

EDIT: I realize you don't have all the answers, just want your opinion.
 
#91
#91
Uranium enrichment is an interesting thing. Uranium isn't considered weapons-grade until it is enriched above 20% in the U235 isotope (vs. the more abundant 238 isotope). The enrichment is a physical separation process, removing the 235 from the 238 to enrich the uranium in that isotope.

The interesting thing is that the effort required to enrich to 15-20% U235 is actually about 90% of the work. It is believed that the Iranians have enriched to around 4% U235, which is really a long way toward the very high enrichments that they would likely want for an actual weapon. If they have gone past the 4% at Qom, to something not weapons usable but high, like 15%, then they are only a month or so away from enough weapons usable material to build a bomb, perhaps (this is me guessing, I just know that 90% of the work is already done at this percentage).

If they go for a very simple gun-type uranium weapon design, then they are probably only another month or two from having a weapon. These weapons do not have a high yield to weight ratio, so they wouldn't be able to sling much of a weapon, but enough of a one, I'm sure.

I think that these most recent tests are primarily flexing, but you are always building up necessary information about your capabilities while flexing. Another round of tests early in 2010 would worry me more, particularly if things were to escalate between not and then.
 
#92
#92
I have to think that the Israelis have the best intelligence on this and that their level of anxiety about it (and their actual risk) compared to ours is about 100 times as great such that, if they thought that Iran was on the brink of going nuclear, they'd act.
 
#93
#93
lawgator1 said:
I have to think that the Israelis have the best intelligence on this and that their level of anxiety about it (and their actual risk) compared to ours is about 100 times as great such that, if they thought that Iran was on the brink of going nuclear, they'd act.
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only to have their planes shot down by the US as they attempt to overfly US controlled airspace in Iraq. Israel does have better intelligence and Netanyahu has made no bones about an Israel strike should Iran be successful in developing a nuclear weapon.
 
#94
#94
MG1968 said:
only to have their planes shot down by the US as they attempt to overfly US controlled airspace in Iraq. Israel does have better intelligence and Netanyahu has made no bones about an Israel strike should Iran be successful in developing a nuclear weapon.
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The US isn't going to shoot down Israeli planes. That's an asinine remark.
 
#95
#95
lawgator1 said:
The US isn't going to shoot down Israeli planes. That's an asinine remark.
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Zbig Brzezinski: Shoot Down Israeli Planes if They Attack Iran - Defense/Middle East - Israel News - Israel National News


Zbigniew Brzezinski, who enthusiastically campaigned for U.S. President Barack Obama, has called on the president to shoot down Israeli planes if they attack Iran. “They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?” said the former national security advisor to former U.S. President Jimmy Carter in an interview with the Daily Beast. Brzezinski, who served in the Carter administration from 1977 to 1981, is currently a professor of American foreign policy at Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies in Maryland.

“We have to be serious about denying them that right,” he said. “If they fly over, you go up and confront them. They have the choice of turning back or not. No one wishes for this but it could be a 'Liberty' in reverse.’" Israel mistakenly attacked the American Liberty ship during the Six-Day War in 1967.
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Brzezinski isn't an official adviser, but you can bet that his opinion is held in high regard by Obama. If it wasn't, Obama would have thrown Zbig under the bus by now.
 
#96
#96
ColdWar_Obama_ToughChoices.gif
 
#97
#97
TennTradition said:
Uranium enrichment is an interesting thing. Uranium isn't considered weapons-grade until it is enriched above 20% in the U235 isotope (vs. the more abundant 238 isotope). The enrichment is a physical separation process, removing the 235 from the 238 to enrich the uranium in that isotope.

The interesting thing is that the effort required to enrich to 15-20% U235 is actually about 90% of the work. It is believed that the Iranians have enriched to around 4% U235, which is really a long way toward the very high enrichments that they would likely want for an actual weapon. If they have gone past the 4% at Qom, to something not weapons usable but high, like 15%, then they are only a month or so away from enough weapons usable material to build a bomb, perhaps (this is me guessing, I just know that 90% of the work is already done at this percentage).

If they go for a very simple gun-type uranium weapon design, then they are probably only another month or two from having a weapon. These weapons do not have a high yield to weight ratio, so they wouldn't be able to sling much of a weapon, but enough of a one, I'm sure.

I think that these most recent tests are primarily flexing, but you are always building up necessary information about your capabilities while flexing. Another round of tests early in 2010 would worry me more, particularly if things were to escalate between not and then.
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Thanks for the info. So Israel is developing a plan for Iran based on the worst case scenario,which makes sense. Iran may be as close as a month or two away from developing a nuclear weapon, or they may be 6 to 9 months away?

This puts them in an very precarious position. Obama and much of the western world would much rather find a peaceful solution to this problem for obvious reasons. Israel on the other hand knows that once the line is crossed there is no turning back, the opportunity will have been lost. If Iran does achieve nuclear capability I have little doubt that it would be used on Israel at some point in the near future.

So does Israel hold off and give Obama and other western leaders a couple of more chances or do they pull the trigger and take a chance? We all know that if this does take place there will be disruptions in the worlds oil supply that will have terrible effect on our already weakened economy at best. At worst more open conflict around the middle east will erupt and we will be drawn into.

Very tough choices to be made over the next 2 to 9 months.
 
#98
#98
MG1968 said:
Zbig Brzezinski: Shoot Down Israeli Planes if They Attack Iran - Defense/Middle East - Israel News - Israel National News




Brzezinski isn't an official adviser, but you can bet that his opinion is held in high regard by Obama. If it wasn't, Obama would have thrown Zbig under the bus by now.
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It's a bit strange that Zbig and Jimmy still support such an inept/corrupt regime but you can never put any sort of insanity beyond that bunch of morons.

Carter even has a room in his Atlanta Carter Center devoted to the Ayatollah Khomeini.

The Carter regime helped overthrow the American ally on the grounds of humanitarianism and then the mad marxist mullahs put to death more Iranians in three months than the supposedly oppressive Shah had in thirty years.

Methinks Carter and company are a bit mathematically challenged to say the least.

Iran_Mullah_kisses_boy.jpg


I havn't read this whole thread, soplease forgive me if someone has already covered this.

Talk about bad timing, shortly after our own Barry aka Caligua in Chief announced he was dropping the Eastern European missile defense shield, Iran announced it has just completed a new round of missile testing.

TEHRAN, Iran (Sept. 28) - Iran tested its longest-range missiles Monday and warned they can reach any place that threatens the country, including Israel, parts of Europe and U.S. military bases in the Mideast.

Iran is also developing (intercontinental) ballistic missiles that could carry a nuclear warhead, although a U.S. intelligence assessment in May says the country is focusing efforts on short- and medium-range missiles like the Shahab.
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At any rate Chavez of Venezuella (another frenkenstein Carter helped create) has ultra close ties with this Iranian regime it will only be a matter of time before he will have whatever they have.
 
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