Obama will be tried for treason?

#51
#51
lawgator1 said:
Your first sentence is inconsistent with the rest of what you wrote. Obama's campaign addressed it, relesed the birth certificate, and said "We're done with this lunacy." The last thing they are going to do now is legitimize it by continuing to even be willing to discuss it rationally with people who are, by definition, irrational.
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Does it bother you that your view of the Tea Parties was most in line with Janine Garofolo's?
 
#52
#52
lawgator1 said:
Your first sentence is inconsistent with the rest of what you wrote. Obama's campaign addressed it, relesed the birth certificate, and said "We're done with this lunacy." The last thing they are going to do now is legitimize it by continuing to even be willing to discuss it rationally with people who are, by definition, irrational.
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I don't know enough about it to make a conclusion one way or the other but I think they are disputing that this was a birth certificate, that it was in fact something else. Please correct me if I am wrong here, like i said, I am not a nut and do not buy that he is a Muslim, but I do believe it is likely he was born outside the US. This alone does not make him ineligible for the presidency, but the fact that he appears to be stalling does make you wonder if he is trying to hide something. It appears that he will have to answer to this eventually, why not get it over with? This is the question I am asking you, mostly because you have experience in matters of law. If you will have to answer to some allegation why delay it, why not end all the speculation as quickly as possible?
 
#54
#54
KB5252 said:
I don't know enough about it to make a conclusion one way or the other but I think they are disputing that this was a birth certificate, that it was in fact something else. Please correct me if I am wrong here, like i said, I am not a nut and do not buy that he is a Muslim, but I do believe it is likely he was born outside the US. This alone does not make him ineligible for the presidency, but the fact that he appears to be stalling does make you wonder if he is trying to hide something. It appears that he will have to answer to this eventually, why not get it over with? This is the question I am asking you, mostly because you have experience in matters of law. If you will have to answer to some allegation why delay it, why not end all the speculation as quickly as possible?
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Actually, it does if he wasn't born on US soil or on a US military reserve.
 
#55
#55
KB5252 said:
I don't know enough about it to make a conclusion one way or the other but I think they are disputing that this was a birth certificate, that it was in fact something else. Please correct me if I am wrong here, like i said, I am not a nut and do not buy that he is a Muslim, but I do believe it is likely he was born outside the US. This alone does not make him ineligible for the presidency, but the fact that he appears to be stalling does make you wonder if he is trying to hide something. It appears that he will have to answer to this eventually, why not get it over with? This is the question I am asking you, mostly because you have experience in matters of law. If you will have to answer to some allegation why delay it, why not end all the speculation as quickly as possible?
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You say you aren't a nut, and then say you think that the birth certificate was fabricated and that he was born outside the U.S.

Please tell me what the evidence is that he was born outside of the U.S. and that the birth certificate was a fake. Please.
 
#56
#56
BigPapaVol said:
no there aren't.
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KB5252 said:
I don't know enough about it to make a conclusion one way or the other but I think they are disputing that this was a birth certificate, that it was in fact something else. Please correct me if I am wrong here, like i said, I am not a nut and do not buy that he is a Muslim, but I do believe it is likely he was born outside the US. This alone does not make him ineligible for the presidency, but the fact that he appears to be stalling does make you wonder if he is trying to hide something. It appears that he will have to answer to this eventually, why not get it over with? This is the question I am asking you, mostly because you have experience in matters of law. If you will have to answer to some allegation why delay it, why not end all the speculation as quickly as possible?
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BPV, are you watching?
 
#57
#57
lawgator1 said:
I've already said I underestimated the sincerity of the bulk of the protestors leading up to that event.
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But you do have a borderline "nutjob" tendency to bring up people that are out to get Obama. If you are going to suggest KB is a lunatic for saying that running from a possible crime makes you appear guilty, then I'd say I can go ahead and label you, as well.
 
#58
#58
I keep waiting for Dan Rather to discover the real birth certificate
 
#59
#59
lawgator1 said:
You say you aren't a nut, and then say you think that the birth certificate was fabricated and that he was born outside the U.S.

Please tell me what the evidence is that he was born outside of the U.S. and that the birth certificate was a fake. Please.
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Look, I said on more than one occasion i do not have all the facts. From what I understand Obama released a certificate that is commonly issued when a child is born outside the US to a legal resident. If he has released a true birth certificate then I am unaware of it and this whole business of showing proof is void of any merit what so ever. In that case I would take it into consideration his grandmother was old and likely suffering from dementia, which is entirely possible, and mistaken about her claims.

So then the question becomes did he release a true birth certificate? I simply don't know.

Edit: I never once said he fabricated anything, just that to my understanding they were disputing that he even showed a birth certificate.
 
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#60
#60
lawgator1 said:
BPV, are you watching?
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I obviously have questions, because i have limited knowledge on the subject. I posed those questions to you and so far you have lumped me in with the lunatic fringe, all the while neglecting to address or answer the questions posed, to your ability.
 
#61
#61
lawgator1 said:
You say you aren't a nut, and then say you think that the birth certificate was fabricated and that he was born outside the U.S.

Please tell me what the evidence is that he was born outside of the U.S. and that the birth certificate was a fake. Please.
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I think KB is thinking about is the distinction between just a "birth certificate" (all you need to prove citizenship for a passport) that Obama has showed and some other type of document that goes into greater detail that neither Obama or the Hawaii hospital has released.

The conspiracy people try to convince people that the detailed document type certificate would prove that he was not born in this country and that the normal birth certificate was just a registration of birth that may have been filed subsequent to the birth.

I don't want to speak for KB but I think he thought a true birth certificate was never released.
 
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#62
#62
vols4sure said:
I think KB is thinking about is the distinction between just a "birth certificate" (all you need to prove citizenship for a passport) that Obama has showed and some other type of document that goes into greater detail that neither Obama or the Hawaii hospital has released.

The conspiracy people try to convince people that the detailed document type certificate would prove that he was not born in this country.

I don't want to speak for KB but I think he thought a true birth certificate was never released.
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This was my understanding, but I could be wrong, I don't spend time on these conspiracy blogs.
 
#63
#63
KB5252 said:
I get what your saying but Obama could easily clear this up in short order, but instead he has delayed the proceedings, by doing this doesn't he lend some credence to the conspiracy theories and fuel the fire?
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From where I am sitting, I would let the battle (if you can even call it that) continue to rage. There is no reason for a man who is already accused of being an appeaser to play games with these children. He is the most powerful man in the world, he should turn to them, say "stick it up your ass" and continue on his way.

At least, that is what I would do.
 
#65
#65
lawgator1 said:
BPV, are you watching?
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you're talking about something entirely different here. The birth certificate controversy exists today because Obama can't or won't end it. That type of thing stinks and will keep the hounds barking.

The silliness over outing agents isn't going to get him pounded any more than it did Bush.
 
#66
#66
emainvol said:
Oh he released one, it just didn't make the wingnuts happy.
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it wouldn't be hard to make people happy if they had access to the information required to satisfy them. This should be simple and would provide Obama with a very strong long term argument against the wing nuts. He could take this one tiny item and undermine a huge lot of his detractors. Wonder why a political snake like he is wouldn't make that happen immediately?
 
#67
#67
BigPapaVol said:
it wouldn't be hard to make people happy if they had access to the information required to satisfy them. This should be simple and would provide Obama with a very strong long term argument against the wing nuts. He could take this one tiny item and undermine a huge lot of his detractors. Wonder why a political snake like he is wouldn't make that happen immediately?
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because he obviously is hiding something. same reason why he wont release his harvard transcripts.
 
#69
#69
BigPapaVol said:
it wouldn't be hard to make people happy if they had access to the information required to satisfy them. This should be simple and would provide Obama with a very strong long term argument against the wing nuts. He could take this one tiny item and undermine a huge lot of his detractors. Wonder why a political snake like he is wouldn't make that happen immediately?
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It certainly does appear there is something he is trying very hard to keep from the American people. Any other person would have released the information needed to shut the critics up and prove their allegations baseless.
 
#70
#70
emainvol said:
From where I am sitting, I would let the battle (if you can even call it that) continue to rage. There is no reason for a man who is already accused of being an appeaser to play games with these children. He is the most powerful man in the world, he should turn to them, say "stick it up your ass" and continue on his way.

At least, that is what I would do.
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Like BPV said, it would make a lot of his detractors look foolish. Also, he is spending an awful lot of money on legal fees by refusing to show his records.

While there are many reasons not to give in to the nutjobs, there are also plenty of reasons to show them what they want to see to shut them up (obviously unless there is something to hide).
 
#71
#71
Here's the problem. If Obama ignores these theories and refuses to even discuss it, he pays a political price, albeit a small one, in that he is seen as having something to hide. But we all know that he's not going to "go there" because if he does, no matter what he produces for sure some nutjob will claim its forged/fabricated/postdated or something of the like.

He can't win no matter what he does. But he loses far less by just ignoring it and letting these guys just eventually flame out.
 
#72
#72
lawgator1 said:
Here's the problem. If Obama ignores these theories and refuses to even discuss it, he pays a political price, albeit a small one, in that he is seen as having something to hide. But we all know that he's not going to "go there" because if he does, no matter what he produces for sure some nutjob will claim its forged/fabricated/postdated or something of the like.

He can't win no matter what he does. But he loses far less by just ignoring it and letting these guys just eventually flame out.
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I call horse shat on this. If he quits stalling and experts authenticate his records then those saying he isn't legit are discredited....end of story, no independent thinker will lend credence to their claims.

By ignoring it whether he is legit or not it looks like he is hiding something.

EDIT: Ignoring isn't the right word, trying to delay and spending money to keep the information sealed would better describe what Obama is doing here.
 
#73
#73
lawgator1 said:
Here's the problem. If Obama ignores these theories and refuses to even discuss it, he pays a political price, albeit a small one, in that he is seen as having something to hide. But we all know that he's not going to "go there" because if he does, no matter what he produces for sure some nutjob will claim its forged/fabricated/postdated or something of the like.

He can't win no matter what he does. But he loses far less by just ignoring it and letting these guys just eventually flame out.
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what a bunch of bs. releasing everything would put 99% of the wackjob theories to rest.
 
#74
#74
BigPapaVol said:
it wouldn't be hard to make people happy if they had access to the information required to satisfy them. This should be simple and would provide Obama with a very strong long term argument against the wing nuts. He could take this one tiny item and undermine a huge lot of his detractors. Wonder why a political snake like he is wouldn't make that happen immediately?
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I'm still under the impression that he did this a long time ago. It's gotten to the point where there is no reason to fight it. He released his birth certificate and all those whackjobs screamed "it's a fake." A Hawaiian official said "no, it's not" and that should have been it. However, it wasn't.

Regardless, I think there are much larger problems to be addressed right now. It's no secret that I have cooled to Obama considerably, but I still think the birth certificate debate should have been buried a long time ago.
 
#75
#75
droski said:
what a bunch of bs. releasing everything would put 99% of the wackjob theories to rest.
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I disagree completely. Releasing everything may make them less believable, but the whackjobs won't be satisfied.
 
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