Obama

#53
#53
I assume Vol Doll also advocates a weaker central gov't and more power to the states
 
#55
#55
Again, just be sure you read all of someone's statements before making a blanket argument that they suit your own.

You all keep going to absolutes: I'm NOT saying we don't need a military, I'm just saying we don't need to be the world police any longer. If we're so concerned about protecting the rights of others, then how is it we haven't sent hundreds of thousands of troops to Rowanda?

Iraq has cost us almost one trillion dollars. Saddam Hussein may have been a despotic jerk, but at least he kept Iran in check.

I just think the days of conventional warfare are over with the exception of when we choose to be an invading army, going into a country that doesn't want us there. WWII ended a long time ago, and we aren't the world's savior. I truly believe that the next "war" we will need to fight will by cyberterrorism or germ warfare. Instead of spending trillions on defense, why not spend it on homeland security (protecting ports, etc), and developing measures to avoid those type of attacks. An ICBM isn't going to stop someone in Chinese Intelligence from hacking into the the financial system.
 
#56
#56
Actually I do prefer states' rights. I was actually Vice President of College Republicans when I roamed the campus of the dear old Orange. But that's when it was the party of economic conservatism and didn't bring Jesus into my bedroom and my politics.
 
#57
#57
Aw heck no, I'm mad as he** about government spending. Where we diverge is that you don't want military spending cut.
 
#58
#58
Vol Doll said:
Aw heck no, I'm mad as he** about government spending. Where we diverge is that you don't want military spending cut.
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and you want to preserve federal welfare spending (like the healthcare you mentioned previously).
 
#59
#59
Vol Doll said:
Again, just be sure you read all of someone's statements before making a blanket argument that they suit your own.

You all keep going to absolutes: I'm NOT saying we don't need a military, I'm just saying we don't need to be the world police any longer. If we're so concerned about protecting the rights of others, then how is it we haven't sent hundreds of thousands of troops to Rowanda?

Iraq has cost us almost one trillion dollars. Saddam Hussein may have been a despotic jerk, but at least he kept Iran in check.

I just think the days of conventional warfare are over with the exception of when we choose to be an invading army, going into a country that doesn't want us there. WWII ended a long time ago, and we aren't the world's savior. I truly believe that the next "war" we will need to fight will by cyberterrorism or germ warfare. Instead of spending trillions on defense, why not spend it on homeland security (protecting ports, etc), and developing measures to avoid those type of attacks. An ICBM isn't going to stop someone in Chinese Intelligence from hacking into the the financial system.
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Seems you have a fundamental misunderstanding of our military. First, the need for conventional force is never, ever, ever, ever going away. The need to be overwhelmingly the best goes with that.

We aren't trying to be the world police. We are maintaining a strategic foothold everywhere that we need it. Rawanda doesn't qualify. We try to put a nice face on why we fight where we fight, but in the end, it's about our strategic goals.

It's nice to assume that all the world bad guys are going to be cyber criminals and terrorists, but the true threats in the world are still nations with large or burgeoning militaries and who are just now figuring out their needs to project force in order to get their way politically in a joint like the UN.

By the way, the military also is at the top of the heap in counterterrorism, including cyber warfare. Should we cut those bucks?
 
#60
#60
Vol Doll said:
Again, just be sure you read all of someone's statements before making a blanket argument that they suit your own.

You all keep going to absolutes: I'm NOT saying we don't need a military, I'm just saying we don't need to be the world police any longer. If we're so concerned about protecting the rights of others, then how is it we haven't sent hundreds of thousands of troops to Rowanda?

Iraq has cost us almost one trillion dollars. Saddam Hussein may have been a despotic jerk, but at least he kept Iran in check.

I just think the days of conventional warfare are over with the exception of when we choose to be an invading army, going into a country that doesn't want us there. WWII ended a long time ago, and we aren't the world's savior. I truly believe that the next "war" we will need to fight will by cyberterrorism or germ warfare. Instead of spending trillions on defense, why not spend it on homeland security (protecting ports, etc), and developing measures to avoid those type of attacks. An ICBM isn't going to stop someone in Chinese Intelligence from hacking into the the financial system.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are advocating shifting of spending rather than pure reduction (especially 50% reduction).

I don't have a problem looking at the military budget for places to cut along with all other spending in the military.

Finally, military spending is nothing akin to welfare - using the term military welfare misses the point entirely.
 
#61
#61
Sorry BigPapa, but I gotta throw one last one in before I go:
"The spirit of this country is totally adverse to a large military force." - Thomas Jefferson 1807 (during his Presidency).
 
#62
#62
BigPapaVol said:
We aren't trying to be the world police. We are maintaining a strategic foothold everywhere that we need it. Rawanda doesn't qualify. We try to put a nice face on why we fight where we fight, but in the end, it's about our strategic goals.
Click to expand...

Agree. Doesn't mean there can't be debate about which goals are really strategic and if particular actions help or hinder but this is what it's all about. The western world loves/hates us for this as well.
 
#63
#63
Vol Doll said:
Actually I do prefer states' rights. I was actually Vice President of College Republicans when I roamed the campus of the dear old Orange. But that's when it was the party of economic conservatism and didn't bring Jesus into my bedroom and my politics.
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The college republicans? Holy crap, them's some bona fides.

I'll assure you that economic conservatism and freedom from governmental social engineering are my two main political views.

I'm for cutting military spending too, but not in a place like congress.
 
#64
#64
Vol Doll said:
Sorry BigPapa, but I gotta throw one last one in before I go:
"The spirit of this country is totally adverse to a large military force." - Thomas Jefferson 1807 (during his Presidency).
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and he was wrong, but he had already conceded the need for it.
 
#65
#65
droski said:
do you really think that without a strong military that diplomacy works? gandhi for all the bs had a very poor plan for independence.
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100% agreed, coming from an Indian. He got all the hype because he talked about peace, but he was bad for the country. Apparently most of the people in the younger generation have figured it out.
 
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#66
#66
volinbham said:
Agree. Doesn't mean there can't be debate about which goals are really strategic and if particular actions help or hinder but this is what it's all about. The western world loves/hates us for this as well.
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I agree with that and we do debate furiously over where we use force. None of us is ever wholly satisfied with the outcome of those debates, but that's the price we pay for civilian control of our military. It's absolutely necessary, but it is going to result in fights over function, size, spending, employment etc. That's OK. We have managed it relatively well to this point.
 
#67
#67
I really should be folding laundry but I just can't pull away. Besides, you all need someone to shake things up around here. How much fun is it when everyone agrees with you.

You're spot on when you say I want to shift focus. I still maintain our budget needs to be cut. I just happen to put priorities elsewhere. I don't think defense should take up the portion that it does; and that what portion it does take shouldn't be spent on ICBMs and sending our army places it doesn't (yes in MY opinion) need to be. The Middle East is far worse than it was before we entered Iraq.

So yes, I would prefer spending our money on fighting in the 21st century. And, yes if the government is going to tax me, I want mine to go to Education and providing health care to 55 million. Wouldn't it be great if we could specify where we each wanted our tax dollars to go?
 
#69
#69
Vol Doll said:
I really should be folding laundry but I just can't pull away. Besides, you all need someone to shake things up around here. How much fun is it when everyone agrees with you.

You're spot on when you say I want to shift focus. I still maintain our budget needs to be cut. I just happen to put priorities elsewhere. I don't think defense should take up the portion that it does; and that what portion it does take shouldn't be spent on ICBMs and sending our army places it doesn't (yes in MY opinion) need to be. The Middle East is far worse than it was before we entered Iraq.

So yes, I would prefer spending our money on fighting in the 21st century. And, yes if the government is going to tax me, I want mine to go to Education and providing health care to 55 million. Wouldn't it be great if we could specify where we each wanted our tax dollars to go?
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How very conservative toward spending of you.
 
#71
#71
Vol Doll said:
I really should be folding laundry but I just can't pull away. Besides, you all need someone to shake things up around here. How much fun is it when everyone agrees with you.

You're spot on when you say I want to shift focus. I still maintain our budget needs to be cut. I just happen to put priorities elsewhere. I don't think defense should take up the portion that it does; and that what portion it does take shouldn't be spent on ICBMs and sending our army places it doesn't (yes in MY opinion) need to be. The Middle East is far worse than it was before we entered Iraq.

So yes, I would prefer spending our money on fighting in the 21st century. And, yes if the government is going to tax me, I want mine to go to Education and providing health care to 55 million. Wouldn't it be great if we could specify where we each wanted our tax dollars to go?
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You counting illegal immigrants? You're definitely counting people who are uninsured by choice.
 
#73
#73
Vol Doll said:
I really should be folding laundry but I just can't pull away. Besides, you all need someone to shake things up around here. How much fun is it when everyone agrees with you.

You're spot on when you say I want to shift focus. I still maintain our budget needs to be cut. I just happen to put priorities elsewhere. I don't think defense should take up the portion that it does; and that what portion it does take shouldn't be spent on ICBMs and sending our army places it doesn't (yes in MY opinion) need to be. The Middle East is far worse than it was before we entered Iraq.

So yes, I would prefer spending our money on fighting in the 21st century. And, yes if the government is going to tax me, I want mine to go to Education and providing health care to 55 million. Wouldn't it be great if we could specify where we each wanted our tax dollars to go?
Click to expand...

I doubt the ICBM part of the budget is substantial and we are in a nuke reduction mode.

I'm certain the military is preparing for 21st century fighting but transitioning systems, equipment, training and personnel costs $$$. The assets of the military (human and otherwise) are not fungible.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that Defense cannot be cut. Most are reacting to the blanket assertion that 50% can be cut and the limited back up for such a claim.

It's bad enough that Congressional members specify where tax dollars go. I can't imagine letting the average citizen decide.
 
#74
#74
droski said:
do you really think that without a strong military that diplomacy works? gandhi for all the bs had a very poor plan for independence.
Click to expand...

Who said our military wouldn't continue to be strong? I am as pro-military as the next guy, but there are cuts that can be made. Do you have any idea the amount of money that has been wasted by some of our defense contractors and nothing to show for it?
 
#75
#75
truefan said:
Who said our military wouldn't continue to be strong? I am as pro-military as the next guy, but there are cuts that can be made. Do you have any idea the amount of money that has been wasted by some of our defense contractors and nothing to show for it?
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I haven't seen anyone say cuts cannot be made.
 
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