Obama's Watergate? - CNN

#26
#26
Someone who regurgitates fringe blog posts as fact shouldn't accuse another of not thinking for themselves.
 
#29
#29
gsvol said:
Intuitively obvious that he is about as rational as your average bag of popcorn.

A thouroughly brainwashed individual incapable of thinking for himself.

Maybe he would care to explain why the media is almost totally ignoring this whole issue?

Perhaps anyone can explain why most of you ignore the topic and instead attempt to malign my character to avoid discussing the issue?

tuesbagtricks.jpg
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No offense, but you should not be calling anyone else "brainwashed." Pot meet kettle.
 
#30
#30
PKT_VOL said:
No offense, but you should not be calling anyone else "brainwashed." Pot meet kettle.
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Really?

How do you evaluate the 'fast and furious' campaign?

Administration/media collaboration continues Gunwalker misdirection - National gun rights | Examiner.com

Except field agents at CleanUpATF, the website dedicated to exposing and correcting agency waste, abuse, corruption and fraud, aren’t buying it:


Mr. Jones - if the above is accurately quoted and accurately attributed to you, then to borrow a line from Mr. Grassley "You may be ill-served". You may not have been here long enough to know that ATF does not operate that way. Agents need multiple layers of approval to even begin such an operation, even one that does not encourage and allow sales to known traffickers with no intention of maintaining control or observation of the firearms. If you have been advised otherwise, you may want to consider other sources for your orientation to the agency because you will have no shortage of employees testify contrary to your assertion and be able to back it up with specific examples.
Here's hoping there was a misunderstanding or miscommunication during the interview. We don't need any more classic oversight hearing moments with an employee being asked "Are you lying or are they lying?"

Here's one sure way to tell if the CYA higher-ups are serious: Will they dare help prosecute their allegedly wayward underlings, and risk them telling what they know?
----------------------

You might want to ask the snotty regressives out their busily spreading their lies if the people who have brought information to light and risked retaliation from the like of the “innocent” Mr. Melson are insane paranoids prone to far-fetched conspiracies. You might also want to ask them how many insider sources they have when they come up with their attack pieces designed to shield their political champions and subvert the truth, and ultimately the attainment of justice.

And by that I mean actual whistleblowers, not administration talking point dispensers relying on leftist media shills.
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If I said you are a feaking idiot, would that be the pot calling the kettle black?


mallardfillmore20111226.gif
 
#31
#31
How does the fast and the furious campaign have anything to do with my statement?
 
#34
#34
PKT_VOL said:
How does the fast and the furious campaign have anything to do with my statement?
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Well I just asked what you thought.

I think the F&F program was a psyop effort to brainwash Americans into believing our gun laws were too lenient.

Second Amendment Freedom- Firearms Rights: House Bill Would Cut Off All U.S. Funding For U.N. If Anti Firearms Treaty is Adopted

A major foe of anti gun rights efforts, and Tea Party favorite, Illinois Congressman, Joe Walsh, and 20 other co-sponsors have introduced a bill that would strip the United Nations of all United States funding if the UN’s Arms Trade Treaty is adopted. Obama's State Department reversed its position against anti Second Amendment Treaties in 2009 after Obama put the United States under his heavy hand. Stripping American taxpayer's funding would be a good step toward sending the UN to Europe and on into oblivion, where it belongs.

The Bill blasts any treaty that would pose a threat to national security or infringe or abridge the rights of Americans to keep and bear arms or any other Constitutionally protected rights of our citizens. Citing the Constitution’s Supremacy Clause, the Bill specifically forbids American United Nations funding if such a restrictive treaty is adopted.
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Also it was an effort to further the UN Agenda 21, specificallly the proposed small arms treaty.

socialistobama.jpg


PKT_VOL
I'll accept an IQ test challenge anytime you want.
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Do you equate IQ and idiocy (or lack of)?

I would guess yours to be in the 140 to 145 range, how far am I off?
 
#37
#37
gsvol said:
Well I just asked what you thought.

I think the F&F program was a psyop effort to brainwash Americans into believing our gun laws were too lenient.
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You don't honestly believe that...do you?
 
#39
#39
PKT_VOL said:
You don't honestly believe that...do you?
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How can you characterize any differently?

This factoid should be intuitively obvious to any casual observer with even one eye and half sense.

To say the operation was stupid and ignorant would be saying that the three main conspirators, a Harvawd genius, America's top lawyer and the world's smartest woman are all ignorant and stupid.

That's a tough proposition to sell but I'm listening to your explanation.

Give me your take on 'fast and furious'.

The fact that Holder has blatently lied to congress is too obvious to ignore.
 
#40
#40
Well, from what I have read overseas, it seems to have been the brilliant work of the ATF. I do believe in their stated purpose for the program; to release guns into Mexico, hoping to track them to the various drug cartels. However, it is not out of realm of possibilities that the DOJ would use the aftermath of this debacle to strengthen their case for gun control. That does not mean it was the original intended purpose of the ATF's Operation Fast and Furious. To imply such seems very tin hatesque.
 
#41
#41
PKT_VOL said:
Well, from what I have read overseas, it seems to have been the brilliant work of the ATF. I do believe in their stated purpose for the program; to release guns into Mexico, hoping to track them to the various drug cartels. However, it is not out of realm of possibilities that the DOJ would use the aftermath of this debacle to strengthen their case for gun control. That does not mean it was the original intended purpose of the ATF's Operation Fast and Furious. To imply such seems very tin hatesque.
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Surely you're not serious.

That's a ludicrous proposition for several reasons.

All right, how about the State Department approved release of firearms to the M-13 drug gangs in Honduras?

How about the program run out of Texas that released military grade armaments and more guns than the Arizona 'fast and furious' program did to Mexican drug cartels and the other program run out of Indianna?

Anyone who places their trust in BHO, Holder and Clinton needs a tailor made tinfoil hat for their pointy head.

Chief House Investigator Says Holder and/or Obama are Doomed | Godfather Politics

I disagree with the members of Congress calling for Holder’s resignation. Just demanding his resignation is not really holding the nation’s top cop responsible for his flagrant disregard of the law.

Instead of his resignation, I would file criminal charges against him for dereliction of duty, willful failure to carry out his sworn duty to uphold ALL of the nation’s laws, preferential treatment of convicted felons based upon their race, religion and political status and impersonating a US Attorney General. I would tap into the minds of some of the nation’s best legal experts and throw as many criminal charges against the man as possible.
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#42
#42
gsvol said:
Anyone who places their trust in BHO, Holder and Clinton needs a tailor made tinfoil hat for their pointy head.
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Where did you get this notion from my assessment?

Please don't quote Godfather Politics again.
 
#44
#44
PKT_VOL said:
Where did you get this notion from my assessment?

Please don't quote Godfather Politics again.
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Who would you like the to quote, the NY Slimes?

The only mention they have made on this topic was an editorial character assassination attempt on Congressman Issa.

Ask yourself some of these quetions;

Did Obama, Holder and Clinton not make the false claim that 75% of the guns used in crime in Mexico came from the USA prior to the F&F progam and that we needed stricter gun laws to prevent that?

Did the US DEA and other agencies not already know who the bosses of the Mexican drug cartels were even before F&F?

If they wanted to follow the guns to their eventual destination would thay not have enlisted the cooperation of Mexican authorities rather than not informing them at all?

Did all of the guns go to Mexico, if so how did one of our Border Patrol agents get killed with one of the guns and why did most of the guns from the Indianna operation end up in the hands of drug gang members in Chicago, Ill?

Why would we even expect all ot the guns to go to Mexico since it is a well known fact that those drug cartels have widespread distribution networks operating inside the US?

Why did the Justice Department decline to have the FBI arrest known staw buyers operating out of Texas even though agents in field begged them for warrants before it was too late in order to arrest them as they had been doing under the previous gunrunner program.

Did the head of the Justice in Phoenix not visit the White House and brief Obama's top security advisors on Fast and Furious befoe agent Terry was murdered?

Is Holder not responsible for overseeing all ATF operations? He lied to congress when he claimed he didn't know what was going on.

Why has Holder dismissed agents for 'insufficient' candor when they testified truthfully to congress on the F&F operation?

Your assessment seem superfluous to me.

After the OKC bombing we had a massive government coverup, we don't need to repeat that mistake again.

The ATF might have prevented the Oklahoma City bombing « Coach is Right

While the show trial of Oklahoma City bomber Tim McVeigh was being conducted at Denver, Colorado in April of 1997, another federal proceeding was taking place in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
-------------------

....attorneys representing the Department were interested enough to exhibit virtual desperation when privately begging Judge Michael Burrage to seal the case and all appertaining information lest it be acquired by McVeigh attorneys in Denver!

For some 8 months prior to the April 19, 1995 destruction of the Alfred P. Murrah federal building, Carol Howe had been acting as an informant for the ATF. Her mission was to gather information from and about friends and acquaintances located in Elohim Cty, Oklahoma, a known hangout for neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups in the state.

And although Judge Burrage did indeed seal the records of her trial, a leaked “Transcript of Proceedings” conducted in a sealed hearing make it clear that Howe had reported to her ATF contact that Andreas Strassmeir, a German national living in Elohim City who had over-stayed his American visa, was both an explosives expert and had made threats about blowing up a federal building in Oklahoma City.
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Numerous high level Muslim Brotherhood oberatives were also frequent visitors to the compound at Elohim City.

Terry Nichols was known to have had muslim terrorist connections in the Philipines with severl visists there and with hundreds of phone contacts with them leading up to the OKC event.

All of this was written out of the mainstream account just as is being attempted with the current attempt to cover up the extent and purpose of operation Fast and Furious and numerous other similar secret operations.
 
#45
#45
gsvol said:
Who would you like the to quote, the NY Slimes?

The only mention they have made on this topic was an editorial character assassination attempt on Congressman Issa.

Ask yourself some of these quetions;

Did Obama, Holder and Clinton not make the false claim that 75% of the guns used in crime in Mexico came from the USA prior to the F&F progam and that we needed stricter gun laws to prevent that?

Did the US DEA and other agencies not already know who the bosses of the Mexican drug cartels were even before F&F?

If they wanted to follow the guns to their eventual destination would thay not have enlisted the cooperation of Mexican authorities rather than not informing them at all?

Did all of the guns go to Mexico, if so how did one of our Border Patrol agents get killed with one of the guns and why did most of the guns from the Indianna operation end up in the hands of drug gang members in Chicago, Ill?

Why would we even expect all ot the guns to go to Mexico since it is a well known fact that those drug cartels have widespread distribution networks operating inside the US?

Why did the Justice Department decline to have the FBI arrest known staw buyers operating out of Texas even though agents in field begged them for warrants before it was too late in order to arrest them as they had been doing under the previous gunrunner program.

Did the head of the Justice in Phoenix not visit the White House and brief Obama's top security advisors on Fast and Furious befoe agent Terry was murdered?

Is Holder not responsible for overseeing all ATF operations? He lied to congress when he claimed he didn't know what was going on.

Why has Holder dismissed agents for 'insufficient' candor when they testified truthfully to congress on the F&F operation?

Your assessment seem superfluous to me.

After the OKC bombing we had a massive government coverup, we don't need to repeat that mistake again.

The ATF might have prevented the Oklahoma City bombing « Coach is Right



Numerous high level Muslim Brotherhood oberatives were also frequent visitors to the compound at Elohim City.

Terry Nichols was known to have had muslim terrorist connections in the Philipines with severl visists there and with hundreds of phone contacts with them leading up to the OKC event.

All of this was written out of the mainstream account just as is being attempted with the current attempt to cover up the extent and purpose of operation Fast and Furious and numerous other similar secret operations.
Click to expand...

You are the absolute king of the straw man logical fallacy. Nobody else comes close.
 
#46
#46
PKT_VOL said:
You are the absolute king of the straw man logical fallacy. Nobody else comes close.
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liberallist.png


Well we can disagree as to the motives of Obama, Holder and Clinton in launching a program that has been characterized as 'criminally stupid,' but what of the Attorney General of this administration being caught in a lie to a joint congressional committee?

Any comment? (or are in the same state of mind?)
 
#47
#47
This is hardly Obama's 'Watergate'. Most likely, this will be about as bad as Clinton's 'Whitewater' and GWB's 'Joe Wilson' indiscretions; at worst, this will end up like Reagan's 'Iran-Contra Affair'.
 
#48
#48
gsvol said:
liberallist.png


Well we can disagree as to the motives of Obama, Holder and Clinton in launching a program that has been characterized as 'criminally stupid,' but what of the Attorney General of this administration being caught in a lie to a joint congressional committee?

Any comment? (or are in the same state of mind?)
Click to expand...

Again, what I said about the Fast and Furious campaign has nothing to do with Obama or Clinton. I think Holder should be gone. DOJ and ATF need some housecleaning.

If you want a to make this about Obama and Clinton on gun control, I believe that is a separate issue.

therealUT said:
This is hardly Obama's 'Watergate'. Most likely, this will be about as bad as Clinton's 'Whitewater' and GWB's 'Joe Wilson' indiscretions; at worst, this will end up like Reagan's 'Iran-Contra Affair'.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Not even close to being Obama's "Watergate".
 
#49
#49
PKT_VOL said:
Again, what I said about the Fast and Furious campaign has nothing to do with Obama or Clinton. I think Holder should be gone. DOJ and ATF need some housecleaning.

If you want a to make this about Obama and Clinton on gun control, I believe that is a separate issue.



Agreed. Not even close to being Obama's "Watergate".
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Holder should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
(You know he is still prosecuting cases against CIA agents who were following Bush directives?)

Obama and Clinton will be gone none too soon.

Seperate issue or no, Obama used their criminally stupid fiasco to issue an executive order since with the revelation of their little hoax that cost hundreds of innocent lives, he had no chance of getting congressional action. A suit against that executive order is making it's way through the courts.

No, sady you're probably right, although it certainly should be.

As for it being more like Iran/Contra, it took quite a bit of lying by the likes of John Kerry and Tom Harkin to bring that about.

I know a guy who spent about eight years down there with the Contras and when he first told me about it, tears flowed down his cheeks when he said; "it was the Sandanistas who were trafficing the drugs, cutting off heads and disemboweling people, not us."

I live for the day when I will piss on John Kerry's tombstone and publish the photo on the internet.

I had the pleasure of shaking Ollie North's hand once and listening to several of his very interesting stories.
 
#50
#50
KiffinKiller said:
Just a little perspective, but putting trust in Palin or Perry is the same to me.
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Not enough community organizing for ya,huh?

I mean the only experience they have over BO is Governing a state, right?!?

Solid reasoning there:eek:k:
 
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