O'Bannon Wins

#26
#26
Burger said:
Good example. Kids should be able to get jobs, unlimited food, and have full cost of attendance. They should not have a salary. The players and schools lost the privilege of jobs because of cases like Rhett Bomar. It was a bad solution though.
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I'm not saying I know what kids should get. I'm not saying I have any answers. All I am saying, and I'm trying to be plain...The schools, thus the NCAA, have no one to blame but themselves.

I don't doubt that there are good people trying to do good things, but to think their is not another side of the coin...it's not reasonable.

No one likes change. It is, however, constant.
 
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#27
#27
Burger said:
That's what makes America special, the fact that athletes can get a free education. The education is worth around 3 million dollars. Whether athletes want to screw that up its their fault. I would love to get a free education. There's a reason foreigners go to our colleges. Our k-12 system is second rate, but our universities are among the best.

If they want to get paid, they can pay for their own tuition, food, books, medical care, and bills.
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So what makes America special is forcing college athletes to basically operate under a communist system where everyone is compensated exactly the same regardless of performance? Sounds pretty in-American to me. I thought I remembered you being a free market guy.
 
#28
#28
I haven't read the opinion and don't plan to, as it is 99 pages. I do have a law degree but don't know a whole lot about labor law. This will simply force schools to cease using the players on jerseys, programs, tickets, billboards, etc. You will probably see general logos and the images of coaches. Heck, it may have helped the coaches by allowing them to have more media opportunities.

I am fine with a reasonable stipend for the players. But, I am in the minority that thinks players do benefit from the college venue to develop to the professional game. I do not believe in allowing players to get their own deals. You think playing at UT in front of 105,000 approximately 25 times in your carter doesn't get you exposure? I heard Matt Stinchcomb comment about this, and he is exactly right. It is no different than having to clerk at a law firm or CPA firm. You make next to nothing for several years while you hone your craft, and then you can be employed and make as much as you want. These players do benefit- education, food, clothes, etc. In this day and age, it is thousands of dollars worth of benefits. I understand the argument to pay them, and again, I don't mind a reasonable stipend, but anything is going to open up a can of problems. There are certainly going to be some Title IX issues, and this stuff is not going away. JMO.
 
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#29
#29
Judges have ruled that Obamacare was constitutional, that the government has a right to take your guns, etc

They are not the be all, end all
 
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#30
#30
VolGee4 said:
I haven't read the opinion and don't plan to, as it is 99 pages. I do have a law degree but don't know a whole lot about labor law. This will simply force schools to cease using the players on jerseys, programs, tickets, billboards, etc. You will probably see general logos and the images of coaches. Heck, it may have helped the coaches by allowing them to have more media opportunities.

I am fine with a reasonable stipend for the players. But, I am in the minority that thinks players do benefit from the college venue to develop to the professional game. I do not believe in allowing players to get their own deals. You think playing at UT in front of 105,000 approximately 25 times in your carter doesn't get you exposure? I heard Matt Stinchcomb comment about this, and he is exactly right. It is no different than having to clerk at a law firm or CPA firm. You make next to nothing for several years while you hone your craft, and then you can be employed and make as much as you want. These players do benefit- education, food, clothes, etc. In this day and age, it is thousands of dollars worth of benefits. I understand the argument to pay them, and again, I don't mind a reasonable stipend, but anything is going to open up a can of problems. There are certainly going to be some Title IX issues, and this stuff is not going away. JMO.
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They could just make the players sign their rights away in the LOI.
 
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#31
#31
jjay2518 said:
So what makes America special is forcing college athletes to basically operate under a communist system where everyone is compensated exactly the same regardless of performance? Sounds pretty in-American to me. I thought I remembered you being a free market guy.
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If you perform well, you get drafted.
 
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#32
#32
Burger said:
That's what makes America special, the fact that athletes can get a free education. The education is worth around 3 million dollars. Whether athletes want to screw that up its their fault. I would love to get a free education. There's a reason foreigners go to our colleges. Our k-12 system is second rate, but our universities are among the best.

If they want to get paid, they can pay for their own tuition, food, books, medical care, and bills.
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But it was pretty much proven at trial that the players were not being educated or didn't have time to major in the subject that most interested them.
 
#33
#33
vols-1 said:
But it was pretty much proven at trial that the players were not being educated or didn't have time to major in the subject that most interested them.
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I think that's the players fault. Don't get me wrong, the NCAA should do more, but the education is in the hands of the players.
 
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#37
#37
Burger said:
I think that's the players fault. Don't get me wrong, the NCAA should do more, but the education is in the hands of the players.
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I think they debunked that at trial also. The players were not given a choice if they wanted a football playoff or to expand the basketball tournament. And they sure weren't ask if they had time to start the SEC network.
 
#38
#38
vols-1 said:
But it was pretty much proven at trial that the players were not being educated or didn't have time to major in the subject that most interested them.
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Tell that to Josh Dobbs, or Darwin Walker, or Peyton Manning, or a thousand other players who got their degrees, some in difficult majors. The players involved in the suit didnt care, and that is why they are looking for money. There are others who are probably making six figures outside of sports. It is just like regular students- you get out of it what you want. Regular students also fail because they don't care. That's not a good argument.
 
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#39
#39
Vols520 said:
It's crazy how people want them to continue to be exploited.
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Your definition of "exploitation" may be different than others. This discussion could go downhill from here, so lets not go there. If they want to take advantage of an education and some other benefits, I don't believe in exploitation. Paying a child way less than minimum wage is exploitation.
 
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#40
#40
I generally agree with most of your comments in the thread. To me the most important things are not in the suit... countless labor law issue, blacklisting, and the ability to stop 3rd party payments (in general). If they can't win this issue, the other ones are much tougher, which is what I have been saying for a few years on the board.

As the number of suits swell, on all kinds of issues which are not even a part of this suit, we will see contrary opinions, contrary appeal decisions, etc. This opinion is rather bad... as the NCAA should have never let it get this far... and the court did only what it could which is try to go with the remedy of the Plaintiff offered which the NCAA actually said during trial was okay.

The end result is the floodgates are wide open, I would imagine parts of this will be coming back... but its really immaterial as if they can't make a bent in this the other cases are going to knock them out of the park.

The sooner the schools see they are being thrown under the bus the better... the suits will be coming for them very soon.

Glad the players won, in part, not sure the opinion means much though then to open the floodgates. Which is okay in my book, long time coming. I'll wait for the further attempts at stay come up.


vol66 said:
Define amateurism and then send it to the NCAA lawyers because they certainly couldn't define it during the trial.

The players...how can you blame them, they didn't come up with this system, they certainly didn't rig it in their favor...

It's hard to do...it's hard to say...It's the University of Tennessee's fault for kicking the can down the road, multiplied by every other university, every administrator, school president, board etc...

At any time, they could have turned down the money, what do I mean.

It's not in the best interest of college football players to go from a ten game schedule to a twelve game schedule. It's not in the best interest of college football players to accept a one year scholarship when a school can offer a four year scholarship. It's not in the best interest of college football players to play mid week games, on the other side of the country, due to conference expansion, of which they have no choice, while missing more classes, all because television dictates they do so.

The schools, including UT, are at fault. They lost today. Full Stop.
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#41
#41
Burger said:
That's what makes America special, the fact that athletes can get a free education. The education is worth around 3 million dollars. Whether athletes want to screw that up its their fault. I would love to get a free education. There's a reason foreigners go to our colleges. Our k-12 system is second rate, but our universities are among the best.

If they want to get paid, they can pay for their own tuition, food, books, medical care, and bills.
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3 million dollars for an education? Where? A 4 year degree at UT ends up costing around 70k iirc.
 
#42
#42
Burger said:
I think that's the players fault. Don't get me wrong, the NCAA should do more, but the education is in the hands of the players.
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The thing is half the players don't give a rats ass about an education. They just want to play in the NFL, and you cant do that without going to college. The NFL needs a farm system like the MLB and NBA. If all you want to do is play football, then go play in the farm system. If you want an education, go to college and play. Its silly giving kids free educations to really good schools to kids that don't even want them or barely passed high school.
 
#43
#43
LSU-SIU said:
I generally agree with most of your comments in the thread. To me the most important things are not in the suit... countless labor law issue, blacklisting, and the ability to stop 3rd party payments (in general). If they can't win this issue, the other ones are much tougher, which is what I have been saying for a few years on the board.

As the number of suits swell, on all kinds of issues which are not even a part of this suit, we will see contrary opinions, contrary appeal decisions, etc. This opinion is rather bad... as the NCAA should have never let it get this far... and the court did only what it could which is try to go with the remedy of the Plaintiff offered which the NCAA actually said during trial was okay.

The end result is the floodgates are wide open, I would imagine parts of this will be coming back... but its really immaterial as if they can't make a bent in this the other cases are going to knock them out of the park.

The sooner the schools see they are being thrown under the bus the better... the suits will be coming for them very soon.

Glad the players won, in part, not sure the opinion means much though then to open the floodgates. Which is okay in my book, long time coming. I'll wait for the further attempts at stay come up.
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I'm like you, I never thought anything other than the NCAA will settle this...at least, when all it pertained to was the NLI as that relates to the EA Sports video game.

One point I'd like to make, not directed at you, but I think it is significant based on some of the other posts...

Ed O'Bannon, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson and all of the others on the Plaintiff side of this WAIVED THIER RIGHTS TO DAMAGES in this case so they could have this tried before a judge and not a jury. The judge awarded that the NCAA will have to pay their legal fees, which are in the tens of millions of dollars. At least that is my understanding.

Once the plaintiffs amended their suit to include television rights, the NCAA's Texas style of arrogance kicked in and they refused to settle, that is my opinion.

So, to your point LSU-SIU, those two things, the plaintiffs basically saying it's not about the money "FOR US" and the NCAA's arrogance, which is how they got in this mess in the first place ,are the reasons it got this far.

I thought all along that the EA Sports part of this was a slam dunk for the plaintiffs...again, the arrogance...

The NCAA didn't just think they could license the NLI's of current players, they granted the NLI's of former players...without their consent. Now that's pretty arrogant... to say "yes, EA, we think you can... it's okay for you to use Bill Russell's and Oscar Robertson's name, likeness and image, go for it..."without even so much as a courtesy call to them or their agents...that is arrogant, brazen even.

I think everyone understands this...If Alabama said to the other members of the SEC:

1. We make more than you, we have more than you and we are entitled to keep more money than you...the other schools would kick their butts out of the conference.

2. We are going to start our own network, the Tide Network and we forbid the other members from starting their own, or as a conference having a network that competes with us.

This is why Nebraska and A&M wanted out of the Big 12. The other day the Big 12 had a panel discussion, and that Texas style arrogance was on display when the AD at Texas said why should the 65 have to share the money when the others don't create the wealth.

I'm bring this up because of some of the defenses the NCAA used in this case.

1. The NCAA said player's NLI's have NO Value. Uh...what did they think was going to happen when they put EA sports on the stand?

2. Broadcasters are paying for the rights to the stadiums. I mean...c'mon...yes let's all sit and watch an empty Neyland Stadium on Saturdays...I am not kidding.

I could go on...


It's silly that we are here and I get really sick of people blaming the kids or saying the players are greedy.

The NCAA has not come up with one new solution...Giving the students four year schollys...they used to do that...OLD...Stipends, they used to do that and took it away...OLD... better health insurance should be mandated for every school putting on sports...OLD...

These are things that any school president could have done at any time and the VAST majority have stood by and done nothing.

Rather than admit the problems they are going to try to placate the players, that is all autonomy is about...I believe it's a day late and a dollar short and if the NCAA allows the Kessler case to trial...I don't know what things will look like at that point.
 
#45
#45
Daloth said:
The part where they make billions in revenue and get nothing for it? Or the part where we pretend that giving them an education in one of the worst educational countries is "equal" for the hours and strain they actually put on their bodies? There's a reason no other country combines athletics with college level learning, because the two things should be separate and really have nothing to do with each other.
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So... high school athletics should be ended as well and kids should join other leagues? Those kids(parents) would have to pay to join those leagues but yet you believe this league(NCAA) should pay them. Why is it okay to profit off high school kids but not college? Because high school kids aren't 18 and have no right to consent? If we go this route, no schools in general should allow sports. No more tickets and hot dogs sold at high schools. Fair is fair.

While high school sports are not as dangerous as college sports due to lack of quality players, they're still at risk and the school makes money off of them. High school is just as much of training grounds now. College trains players for a potential career in the pros and high school trains players for potential scholarships. Now, high school will be training kids to potentially make money as an athlete in college as well and that's on top of a scholarship.
 
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#46
#46
Burger said:
30 years of work times 100,000 grand in earnings per year. That's how much its worth, not costs.
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You honestly think the majority of these kids are getting degrees that will net anywhere close to 100k a year?

There is no way you believe the stuff you've written in this thread.
 
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#47
#47
vol66

Excellent post, pretty much agree. Its going to be fun to watch if the NCAA and schools don't throw in the towel. I am just waiting on the first State Attorney General to get into the mix. Nobody, I say nobody has a business model like this in America, nor could there be.

I'll wait for the temporary stay but at the end of the day, the trial killed any hopes for them long-term... its over... the scam has really been over for a while.... even the NCAAs own documents say so.
 
#49
#49
bamawriter said:
You honestly think the majority of these kids are getting degrees that will net anywhere close to 100k a year?

There is no way you believe the stuff you've written in this thread.
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If you don't waste your time in school, you cam end up with a 100k a year degree. Shoot, Dobbs is going for one worth more.
 
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