Offensive balance

[tone357]

A lot of people have been saying that the offense is better without Tillman. I don't know about that, but looking at the stats, the passing balance goes out the window when he's playing. Is that on Hendon, or is it on Golesh? Tillman got twice as many targets as the next two guys.

 

[turbovol]

I think we were playing better with Keyton in the lineup than our coaches seemed to realize. Only 3 targets/2 catches last night--but 16.5 yards a catch.

 

[tone357]

I think we were playing better with Keyton in the lineup than our coaches seemed to realize. Only 3 targets/2 catches last night--but 16.5 yards a catch.

That's an astute observation. Year to date, Keyton is 2nd on the team to Hyatt, who is at 18.5 to Keyton's 18.2.

 

[Vol8188]

A lot of people have been saying that the offense is better without Tillman. I don't know about that, but looking at the stats, the passing balance goes out the window when he's playing. Is that on Hendon, or is it on Golesh? Tillman got twice as many targets as the next two guys.

Some of that was probably because Bru went out of the game and Hyatt was going against an elite CB.

 

[tone357]

Some of that was probably because Bru went out of the game and Hyatt was going against an elite CB.

Not exactly, it's a pattern that is easily provable.

 

[Vol8188]

Not exactly, it's a pattern that is easily provable.

Continue.....

 

[tone357]

Continue.....

I randomly chose a game that Tillman played throughout. Here are the stats against Pitt.

 

[Vol8188]

I randomly chose a game that Tillman played throughout. Here are the stats against Pitt.

That's not random at all. That's a game before Hyatt or Bru were established. Both were new starters and Bru was in a new scheme.

 

[tone357]

That's not random at all. That's a game before Hyatt or Bru were established. Both were new starters and Bru was in a new scheme.

I could only choose from what was available. That was a game Tillman played in before he was hurt. And Hyatt was a starter last year.

 

[tone357]

Some of that was probably because Bru went out of the game and Hyatt was going against an elite CB.

The best cornerback on defense is going to cover the number one receiver. That receiver plays on the opposite side of the field from Bru.

 

[Vol8188]

I could only choose from what was available. That was a game Tillman played in before he was hurt. And Hyatt was a starter last year.

I get that, but the problem is you're overstating your hand here. You proclaimed it's easily provable. It's not. During the game you showed against SC the Slot and RWR targets were nearly identical despite Hyatt missing some plays.

All you've proven is that against Pitt Bru got few targets. Because even in that game 18 for the RWR vs 13 for the SWR isn't a massive disparity. In the most recent game the disparity was even less than that (21 to 18).

Yet according to yourself you've proven this beyond a shadow of a doubt with your two data points.

 

[Vol8188]

The best cornerback on defense is going to cover the number one receiver. That receiver plays on the opposite side of the field from Bru.

The best CB on their team was on Hyatt. Are you claiming that's not the case? It was pretty well documented.

 

[tone357]

The best CB on their team was on Hyatt. Are you claiming that's not the case? It was pretty well documented.

I don't doubt that was the case yesterday, but typically, that's not how it works. I'm sure they knew that Tillman wasn't 100% and not the most significant threat on the team, so why not put your best guy on the guy leading the conference in TDs and yardage? But guess who received the most targets in 2021? All the while we had Velus and JoVanta. Tillman.

 

[Vol8188]

I don't doubt that was the case yesterday, but typically, that's not how it works. I'm sure they knew that Tillman wasn't 100% and not the most significant threat on the team, so why not put your best guy on the guy leading the conference in TDs and yardage? But guess who received the most targets in 2021? All the while we had Velus and JoVanta. Tillman.

Do you have the breakdown

 

[tone357]

Do you have the breakdown

It's not that big a disparity between Tillman and Velus at slot but look at the difference between him and the X receiver Payton. I think it perfectly illustrates the lack of balance.

 

[Vol8188]

It's not that big a disparity between Tillman and Velus at slot but look at the difference between him and the X receiver Payton. I think it perfectly illustrates the lack of balance.

Except it demonstrates the opposite of what you said. The slot was actually targeted more than the RWR last season.

 

[GVol1966]

A lot of people have been saying that the offense is better without Tillman. I don't know about that, but looking at the stats, the passing balance goes out the window when he's playing. Is that on Hendon, or is it on Golesh? Tillman got twice as many targets as the next two guys.

Golesh isn’t taking snaps and throwing the ball. He’s scheming 2-3 guys open and if it’s going to one guy more than it should it’s on Hooker.

 

[tone357]

Except it demonstrates the opposite of what you said. The slot was actually targeted more than the RWR last season.

No it doesn't. Velus played the slot, he was 2nd in targets.

 

[tone357]

Golesh isn’t taking snaps and throwing the ball. He’s scheming 2-3 guys open and if it’s going to one guy more than it should it’s on Hooker.

I agree. I've noticed that Hooker will wait a bit longer for Tillman to get open. With Keyton, he'll give it about 2 seconds before he pulls it down and runs.

 

[Vol8188]

No it doesn't. Velus played the slot, he was 2nd in targets.

But he's not the only person who played slot. You should check the numbers again. The slot position had more targets than the RWR.

 

[tone357]

But he's not the only person who played slot. You should check the numbers again. The slot position had more targets than the RWR.

It's just the opposite, friend. I have highlighted the slot position in this pic. The slot was targeted 262 times to 41 for the Z (Tillman).

 

[tone357]

The chart also shows how many times others were targeted from the slot, so you are correct in stating that others played it,

 

[LivinginthePast]

I think we all feel a little that way. But maybe it’s on hooker because he throws to Tillman more. We will see what Milton does. I would find a way to mismatch Hyatt.

 

[Vol8188]

It's just the opposite, friend. I have highlighted the slot position in this pic. The slot was targeted 262 times to 41 for the Z (Tillman).

Yes, the slot position was targeted more than Tillman. Which is the opposite of your entire hypothesis.

 

[Vol8188]

The chart also shows how many times others were targeted from the slot, so you are correct in stating that others played it,

Yes others played the slot and the slot was targeted more than Tillman.