Offensive balance

#27
#27
tone357 said:
My hypothesis and this post were based on offensive balance. I think I proved it.
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You didn't. You proved that the last two seasons we have thrown to our slot and our RWR a lot. Both of those seasons we've thrown to our slot, not to Tillman (RWR), the most.

If anything this doesn't indicate that the issue is Tillman, but more likely a lack of confidence in our LWR early in the year this year (the Pitt game) and a lack of talent at the position last season (I think it's easily agreed upon that Bru is far better).
 
#28
#28
Vol8188 said:
You didn't. You proved that the last two seasons we have thrown to our slot and our RWR a lot. Both of those seasons we've thrown to our slot, not to Tillman (RWR), the most.

If anything this doesn't indicate that the issue is Tillman, but more likely a lack of confidence in our LWR early in the year this year (the Pitt game) and a lack of talent at the position last season (I think it's easily agreed upon that Bru is far better).
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So, if you're not throwing to both sides of the field, doesn't that indicate a lack of balance?
 
#29
#29
tone357 said:
My hypothesis and this post were based on offensive balance. I think I proved it.
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To this point you've only proven two things:

1. We didn't throw to Payton a lot last season (Tillman and Velus were better)
2. Early this year we didn't throw to Bru often.
 
#30
#30
tone357 said:
So, if you're not throwing to both sides of the field, doesn't that indicate a lack of balance?
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The slot plays both sides of the field. But you've not actually proven that we don't throw left this season. You should check Bru's stats the last few games that he actually played. He's gotten the ball a lot.
 
#31
#31
Vol8188 said:
To this point you've only proven two things:

1. We didn't throw to Payton a lot last season (Tillman and Velus were better)
2. Early this year we didn't throw to Bru often.
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Which indicates.....a lack of balance in the passing game. I rest my case.
 
#32
#32
tone357 said:
Which indicates.....a lack of balance in the passing game. I rest my case.
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That's your entire case? That we don't have perfect balance amongst our top 3 wrs?

Who does? You wasted a thread for that?

Or can you admit that your case was that we over target Tillman (you even claimed he got twice as many as the next two players, while failing to realize those 2 guys were splitting the same position)?
 
#33
#33
Vol8188 said:
That's your entire case? That we don't have perfect balance amongst our top 3 wrs?

Who does? You wasted a thread for that?

Or can you admit that your case was that we over target Tillman (you even claimed he got twice as many as the next two players, while failing to realize those 2 guys were splitting the same position)?
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So, Hyatt and Bru split the same position? Dayum! LOL!
 
#34
#34
tone357 said:
A lot of people have been saying that the offense is better without Tillman. I don't know about that, but looking at the stats, the passing balance goes out the window when he's playing. Is that on Hendon, or is it on Golesh? Tillman got twice as many targets as the next two guys.
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tone357 said:
So, Hyatt and Bru split the same position? Dayum! LOL!
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From the chart you posted....the "next two guys" are Hyatt and Squirrel. Who both played the same position because Hyatt was out for several snaps. It's okay to be wrong, it happens. But to be wrong and so arrogant about it is comical and pathetic.

1668998828092.png
 
#37
#37
tone357 said:
Arrogant, comical, and pathetic? I must be winning! LOL!
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If the goal is to be wrong as much as possible, you're doing great, given you've still not admitted you were wrong about Bru and Hyatt just now.
 
#39
#39
tone357 said:
It's not that big a disparity between Tillman and Velus at slot but look at the difference between him and the X receiver Payton. I think it perfectly illustrates the lack of balance.
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Crazy on point... Never thought about it but you are on the $$$
 
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#40
#40
TNbuc2 said:
Crazy on point... Never thought about it but you are on the $$$
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He’s not. We threw more to the slot last season than any other position. We threw just as many passes to the slot as we did anyone else last night
 
#41
#41
Vol8188 said:
He’s not. We threw more to the slot last season than any other position. We threw just as many passes to the slot as we did anyone else last night
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You're misreading the stats. The numbers that you see under "slot" are for the number of snaps the player was in the slot. Not the number of times we threw to him. As I said, the imbalance comes from the number of targets to one player who happened to have twice the number of targets to the 2 closest guys.
 
#42
#42
tone357 said:
You're misreading the stats. The numbers that you see under "slot" are for the number of snaps the player was in the slot. Not the number of times we threw to him. As I said, the imbalance comes from the number of targets to one player who happened to have twice the number of targets to the 2 closest guys.
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I'm not misreading anything. The two guys who played SLWR had 9 targets each. 9+9=18. Meaning we through to that position as much as we threw to Tillman. So we threw to the slot wr as much as we threw to anyone, as I said.

What part of that could you possibly disagree with?

1669002655386.png
 
#43
#43
Perhaps we're splitting hairs here. I'm looking at the fact that one guy got double the targets as the next two guys, and you're looking at the total number thrown to whoever was in the slot.
 
#45
#45
tone357 said:
Perhaps we're splitting hairs here. I'm looking at the fact that one guy got double the targets as the next two guys, and you're looking at the total number thrown to whoever was in the slot.
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Right. If those two guys don’t play the same number of snaps as the other guy, you can’t claim “when Tillman is in we target him more than anyone else”. You have to take that data and adjust it for snaps played, which you’re failing to do.

You’re also only looking at 2 data points from this season to make your claim. One of those points was before Bru was fully comfortable in the offense and the second was a game where he barely played due to injury
 
#47
#47
JoAllan said:
Of say the best 10 or so passing teams how many have balance between 3 receivers?
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We're specifically discussing balance in the passing game as it relates to Tillman being on the field. Look at the balance in the Alabama game where he did not play.
 

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#48
#48
tone357 said:
We're specifically discussing balance in the passing game as it relates to Tillman being on the field. Look at the balance in the Alabama game where he did not play.
Click to expand...

That's basically the same as all the rest of the data. In that game we threw to the RWR and slot equally and the left slightly less. What would lead you to see that data set and think it's any different than rest of the data?
 
#49
#49
Vol8188 said:
That's basically the same as all the rest of the data. In that game we threw to the RWR and slot equally and the left slightly less. What would lead you to see that data set and think it's any different than rest of the data?
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Obviously, you didn't look at the number of targets! It's almost equally distributed!
 
#50
#50
tone357 said:
Obviously, you didn't look at the number of targets! It's almost equally distributed!
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8 and 8 to 5. So it’s still higher towards RWR and slot. The only difference is Bru actually played in the full game this time

8 to 5 isn’t almost equal. Rather it’s a 60% increase
 
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