Offensive linemen

#51
#51
(OrangeSquare @ Jun 4 said:
How many HEAD coaches do you know "coach offensive line".

It's not his job to do that, it's his job to hire the right guy to do that.
Click to expand...

Head coaches should be involved in those aspects of the game that they know something about. IN Fulmer's case, he should help take charge of the OL--it's all he knows. He damn sure doesn't know ANYTHING else: He was a terrible OC, when he held that job--and he certainly helped muck up the offense in recent years. Spurrier has always run his own offense, in addition to being the head man--and that's worked out pretty well. And others have a hand in their speciality.

As for last year's OL, the unit played pretty well at times. The pass blocking was reasonably good--but the passing game (QB and WRs) were a joke. The left side of the OL could run block well, too. The right side of the OL was weak (douglas and Toe) on run blocking--too big. The unit has gotten too big and slow in recent years--everybody on the offense was much the same. It was like the Vols were an old slow big ten team.
 
#52
#52
the Oline play in the scrimmages and spring games was plain sad. In one scrimmage if there was contact QB's would have been sacked 8 or 9 times. Lets hope they're ready for the fall. I think personally Fulmer should take over the position, he was an amazing line coach. Spurrier coaches his QB's, but I know Fulmer likes to be able to go from position to position that would take his focus off the rest of the team.
 
#53
#53
I think this year's OL is going to be more effective than last years.

Reasons:

1. OL will be lighter, Quicker, and less likely to get injured.
2. Coach Cut calling the plays
3. QB will be greatly improved
4. Foster has a year of experience
5. Starting 5 OL will be really talented


:dance2: :dance2: :dance2: :cross: :cross: :cross:
 
#54
#54
get 4 yards a carry and convert 3 and 1 ill be happy. We can run the same play and win 3-0 as long as it gets us to 12-0 season.
 
#56
#56
Different set of three rules (coming from an O-line and D-line coach):

1) Get lower than the other guy
2) Get your hands inside
3) Drive your legs

One issue I have with zone blocking in general is that it inevitably seems to lead to a combination of poor footwork and horrific technique (the ol' grab and twist). I'm not expecting these guys to be look like Navy the last two years or Nebraska of the mid-90s, but something better than what Vandy usually musters up would be a vast improvement over last year.
 
#57
#57
If they don't look like bullfighters (O'lay!) as the rusher goes by I'll be happy.
 
#58
#58
Looking at the o-line situation logically you'd say with Sears returning to anchor and lead the other 4 rookies especially at center things look bad....the runs are gonna be stuffed and Ainge's gonna spend more time on his back than a sleep study subject. But Im hopin this is one of those times when the chemistry of 4 new faces that come in the mix together along with a veteran and new coaching that we'll see a tough, quick, and smart O-line :cross:
 
#59
#59
dan4vols,

Unless UT can pluck an offensive line coach loose from one of the service academies (particularly Navy from the last two years, which beats Army of 1995 and even some of those Air Force teams), I don't see young linemen being developed properly (again!). Technique is so critical along the line; it's not like other positions that can freewheel it and get the job done.

If nothing else, I'll be available once this coming high school season ends. My background is in the triple option and wing-T so developing that good technique and lightning quickness is what I'm all about.
 
#60
#60
(Ohio Vol @ Jun 10 said:
dan4vols,

Unless UT can pluck an offensive line coach loose from one of the service academies (particularly Navy from the last two years, which beats Army of 1995 and even some of those Air Force teams), I don't see young linemen being developed properly (again!). Technique is so critical along the line; it's not like other positions that can freewheel it and get the job done.

If nothing else, I'll be available once this coming high school season ends. My background is in the triple option and wing-T so developing that good technique and lightning quickness is what I'm all about.
Click to expand...


I think your right about the oline lacking development. a lot of people have commented on teh oline being slow and sluggish, i didnt really appreciate how poor their technique was. my high school coach used to comment as well if you had 2 guys on your team and one could bench 300 lbs and the other could squat 400 lbs that the guy would could squat 400 lbs would push the other guy all over the field. I think UT conditioning program has been way off. You look at the kind of shape thats Auburn players are in when they play UT, its no surprise to me how that program got turned around pretty quickly, even though by the rankings Fulmer out recruited him most of the time.
 
#61
#61
OklaVol,

Interesting point, but I'm not sure how much I go for using numbers in an attempt to quantify who is more likely to be a better lineman. I coached one guy (in high school!) who could squat 650 with ease, but he got into four games as a senior because he didn't use basic technique.

I do agree that strength and conditioning looks to have been a deficiency in recent years (exercise science is my course of study), but I think there are more pressing issues than simply that. I'd be curious to see the numbers in recent years of kids who came on either as a walk-on or as a "I have a spare scholarship available" player. UT history is filled with those guys....Scott Galyon, Peerless Price, Billy Ratliff, and Tyrone Hines come to mind. I haven't sensed a lot of team unity since that disastrous 2002 season, although 2004 was a nice rebound.
 
#62
#62
(Ohio Vol @ Jun 11 said:
OklaVol,

Interesting point, but I'm not sure how much I go for using numbers in an attempt to quantify who is more likely to be a better lineman. I coached one guy (in high school!) who could squat 650 with ease, but he got into four games as a senior because he didn't use basic technique.

I do agree that strength and conditioning looks to have been a deficiency in recent years (exercise science is my course of study), but I think there are more pressing issues than simply that. I'd be curious to see the numbers in recent years of kids who came on either as a walk-on or as a "I have a spare scholarship available" player. UT history is filled with those guys....Scott Galyon, Peerless Price, Billy Ratliff, and Tyrone Hines come to mind. I haven't sensed a lot of team unity since that disastrous 2002 season, although 2004 was a nice rebound.
Click to expand...

I think he meant that analogy with everything else being about equal.

whats your opinion of UT trap blocking? or lack of.
 
#63
#63
OklaVol,

Point taken; I personally had an offensive line coach who can best be described as "insane". The fun part will be coaching against him this year, as he became head coach at a different school and now I'm at their big rival.

My opinion of trap blocking....it's a nice thought, but if it doesn't suit a particular offense then even having that in the ol' back pocket is useless. Traps aren't just most effective when it comes to having a primary running offense, but rather when there is also the threat of the quarterback being able to get yards running the ball. The service academies used to trap with a degree of regularity when it was a primary running game, but it wasn't until they really started opening up into a triple option game that angle blocking and trapping became most worthwhile.

A great example is Utah in 2004. They ran a dizzying array of formations and plays, but very few used trapping. But when they'd bust out one of those, it was big yardage and a big play. Navy of the last two years has extensively used trap options, both of the playside and reverse varieties. The bowl game against Colorado State last year saw them run a reverse trap option numerous times in the second half, which would be followed by a quick toss to the slotback.

If there isn't the threat of a quarterback being able to handle the ball well, use good footwork, and be able to run when he has to then trapping becomes less effective. The best trapping team I remember was Nebraska, who'd go with that outside double option play after play after play, then go with a quick FB trap (Buckhalter in the 2000 Fiesta Bowl comes to mind) for a ton of yardage.

I guess it comes back to recruiting. If UT continues to attract quarterbacks who have NFL aspirations and either can't or won't be effective in a system like what '98 had with Tee Martin, then there's no need to even implement the trap in any way, shape, or form. But if they were to look to guys who would be effective in that system regardless of NFL chances, then that would be a series to install and have huge success with. But whether or not there is more interest in collegiate success versus NFL prospects, I don't think, has even been decided fully.
 
#64
#64
(Ohio Vol @ Jun 11 said:
OklaVol,

Point taken; I personally had an offensive line coach who can best be described as "insane". The fun part will be coaching against him this year, as he became head coach at a different school and now I'm at their big rival.

My opinion of trap blocking....it's a nice thought, but if it doesn't suit a particular offense then even having that in the ol' back pocket is useless. Traps aren't just most effective when it comes to having a primary running offense, but rather when there is also the threat of the quarterback being able to get yards running the ball. The service academies used to trap with a degree of regularity when it was a primary running game, but it wasn't until they really started opening up into a triple option game that angle blocking and trapping became most worthwhile.

A great example is Utah in 2004. They ran a dizzying array of formations and plays, but very few used trapping. But when they'd bust out one of those, it was big yardage and a big play. Navy of the last two years has extensively used trap options, both of the playside and reverse varieties. The bowl game against Colorado State last year saw them run a reverse trap option numerous times in the second half, which would be followed by a quick toss to the slotback.

If there isn't the threat of a quarterback being able to handle the ball well, use good footwork, and be able to run when he has to then trapping becomes less effective. The best trapping team I remember was Nebraska, who'd go with that outside double option play after play after play, then go with a quick FB trap (Buckhalter in the 2000 Fiesta Bowl comes to mind) for a ton of yardage.

I guess it comes back to recruiting. If UT continues to attract quarterbacks who have NFL aspirations and either can't or won't be effective in a system like what '98 had with Tee Martin, then there's no need to even implement the trap in any way, shape, or form. But if they were to look to guys who would be effective in that system regardless of NFL chances, then that would be a series to install and have huge success with. But whether or not there is more interest in collegiate success versus NFL prospects, I don't think, has even been decided fully.
Click to expand...

Good post. Welcome aboard. :hi:
 
#65
#65
(Ohio Vol @ Jun 11 said:
OklaVol,

Point taken; I personally had an offensive line coach who can best be described as "insane". The fun part will be coaching against him this year, as he became head coach at a different school and now I'm at their big rival.

My opinion of trap blocking....it's a nice thought, but if it doesn't suit a particular offense then even having that in the ol' back pocket is useless. Traps aren't just most effective when it comes to having a primary running offense, but rather when there is also the threat of the quarterback being able to get yards running the ball. The service academies used to trap with a degree of regularity when it was a primary running game, but it wasn't until they really started opening up into a triple option game that angle blocking and trapping became most worthwhile.

A great example is Utah in 2004. They ran a dizzying array of formations and plays, but very few used trapping. But when they'd bust out one of those, it was big yardage and a big play. Navy of the last two years has extensively used trap options, both of the playside and reverse varieties. The bowl game against Colorado State last year saw them run a reverse trap option numerous times in the second half, which would be followed by a quick toss to the slotback.

If there isn't the threat of a quarterback being able to handle the ball well, use good footwork, and be able to run when he has to then trapping becomes less effective. The best trapping team I remember was Nebraska, who'd go with that outside double option play after play after play, then go with a quick FB trap (Buckhalter in the 2000 Fiesta Bowl comes to mind) for a ton of yardage.

I guess it comes back to recruiting. If UT continues to attract quarterbacks who have NFL aspirations and either can't or won't be effective in a system like what '98 had with Tee Martin, then there's no need to even implement the trap in any way, shape, or form. But if they were to look to guys who would be effective in that system regardless of NFL chances, then that would be a series to install and have huge success with. But whether or not there is more interest in collegiate success versus NFL prospects, I don't think, has even been decided fully.
Click to expand...

Nice post. I agree with you having another threat to run the ball, either at fullback or quarterback would make a big difference. A Tee Martin or Shawn Bryson type players is what UT has needed to make the offense hit on all cylinders. If the team doesn't have a fullback who is both an excellent runner and blocker, I would rather have a single back. Hard to recruit those type of fullbacks, most of them want to be the primary running back ie jabari greer, troy fleming, etc.
 
#66
#66
OklaVol,

Funny you should mention Jabari and Troy Fleming; I mentioned in another post that I thought they'd excel in a single-back set. I'm just trying to imagine a double-slot offense with Fleming as the fullback and a combination of Cedrick Houston, Derrick Tinsley, and Leonard Scott as slotbacks. It would involve moving Kelley Washington to quarterback (but, since the receivers never number more than two and they primarily need to block, that'd be fine), but that would be one potent offensive machine.

I get into more detail on the coordinator's job in the link below.

http://www.volnation.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15994
 
#67
#67
(Ohio Vol @ Jun 13 said:
OklaVol,

Funny you should mention Jabari and Troy Fleming; I mentioned in another post that I thought they'd excel in a single-back set. I'm just trying to imagine a double-slot offense with Fleming as the fullback and a combination of Cedrick Houston, Derrick Tinsley, and Leonard Scott as slotbacks. It would involve moving Kelley Washington to quarterback (but, since the receivers never number more than two and they primarily need to block, that'd be fine), but that would be one potent offensive machine.

I get into more detail on the coordinator's job in the link below.

http://www.volnation.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15994
Click to expand...
The system in which a stiff like Troy Fleming would excel doesn't exist.
 
#69
#69
OE,

Same county, just further east. I'm in Genoa Township south of Sunbury and Galena.

I may have to head over your way for a nice greaseball at the Hamburger Inn though.
 
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