Once and for all before team 118 takes the field, did team 117 underachieve or no?

#51
#51
I loved our team last year. They played with more heart than we've seen in a long time. However, when all you have to do is hold Vandy and go bowling and you don't hold them, that's tough. Great teams are great for coming up big when it's all on the line. We let Murray walk down the field and score almost undefended when we had the lead and had to go to OT and lost. I'll give Pig great effort for trying, but again, mistakes like that cannot be made. Big players make big plays in big situations. We failed to capitalize on a Georgia win that could've also (though we didn't know it at the time) allowed us to go bowling. So, yes, I do think we underachieved. I will say that this team was young and inexperienced and showed flashes of greatness. When these men get a few more years on them, they'll be a force to be recokened with. I can't wait.
 
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#52
#52
Buy out Oregon for a ditectional school and beat Vandy and 7-5 with a chance to win 8 in a bowl looks like a coaching miracle. Would put a lot more teeth into what CBJ is preaching.

I thought the staff would get more out of veteran lines. Baby steps. CBJ has flipped the apr and culture in one year.
 
#53
#53
oregonvol said:
Ah, Volnation, always set for some revisionist history. Luckily, I took a poll, right before last season started, to keep everyone honest.

Looks like less than 8% expected 5 wins or fewer.

Then, I asked at the beginning of November, whether 5-7 would be a solid season.

Over 90% said "No." Including YOURSELF, oddly enough (don't you just love public polls?).

It was only after the loss to Vanderbilt, that the majority of people here decided 5-7 was a job well done.
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Solid post! Nothing like facts to piss people off haha
 
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#54
#54
508mikey said:
to many injuries to key players during the season
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I would agree that Saulsberry, Couch, and Worley were huge losses. They aren't losses that should have resulted in the Vandy loss. That was a weak coaching effort. It happens to the best of staffs... but that's what it was. Vandy also had a bunch of players hurt including iirc almost their whole secondary.

Injuries happen. Being prepared for that eventuality is part of a coach's job... and YES even or maybe especially when he has a thin or non-ideal roster.
 
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#56
#56
Biggest concern I had with last season was was the lack of improvement from any of the returning players. Most took a step or two backwards under the new staff. Some of this can be attributed to bringing in a totally new staff. If that was the case, then we should see a marked improvement in the 2nd yr in the system.
 
#57
#57
Why are we using VN polls as facts? Let's ask a bunch of biased people what our season will be like and then use it to prove a point when it didn't happen.

I'm guessing if you look up most predictions from other people besides this fan base, 5-7 wins would have been what was predicted. We hit the 5 and was 2 crazy plays from the 7. I'm thinking that is pretty dead on.
 
#59
#59
sjt18 said:
I would agree that Saulsberry, Couch, and Worley were huge losses. They aren't losses that should have resulted in the Vandy loss. That was a weak coaching effort. It happens to the best of staffs... but that's what it was. Vandy also had a bunch of players hurt including iirc almost their whole secondary.

Injuries happen. Being prepared for that eventuality is part of a coach's job... and YES even or maybe especially when he has a thin or non-ideal roster.
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Your last paragraph is a bunch of crap. What happened to mark Richt last year primarily on account of injuries? College teams aren't pro where free agency applies. Butch was dealt a weak hand. We all know Marquez north was our star player. When he went down, there went our chances. It's not like the oddsmakers made us an overwhelming pick. Also, Jason croom was injured and Dobbs had a broke hand. At some point, you can't make a silk purse out of sows ear. I know you don't apply common sense but prefer to apply some matrix or arbitrary goal to coach jones, but at some point, injuries aren't possible to overcome.
 
#60
#60
UTFanForLife said:
Why are we using VN polls as facts? Let's ask a bunch of biased people what our season will be like and then use it to prove a point when it didn't happen.

I'm guessing if you look up most predictions from other people besides this fan base, 5-7 wins would have been what was predicted. We hit the 5 and was 2 crazy plays from the 7. I'm thinking that is pretty dead on.
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You can find a volquest poll on line where 50 percent of the subscribers predicted we would be undefeated in 2005. In spite of the fact that not many teams in the BCS era have achieved that accomplishment. We have one national title in 65 years, yet our fan base fully expects it or else. Fans and especially vol fans are completely unrealistic.
I expect us to be in the hunt for the east and sec most years, say 8 out of 10 years and expect to go to atlanta three or four times. I don't that is unrealistic.
 
#62
#62
BeattieFeathers said:
Your last paragraph is a bunch of crap. What happened to mark Richt last year primarily on account of injuries?
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What happened to Richt last fall was extraordinary. What is a "bunch of crap" is that you want to believe that North going down should have left NO ONE on the roster who could catch a pass thrown by Dobbs. That's not just crap... its moronic. And ESPECIALLY when you consider that 3 of 4 VU DB's were out of the game. And how exactly do you get to game 7 of your season and not have your back up QB better prepared to play than Dobbs was? I'm not knocking the kid. I'm asking why a coach would not ASSUME that his #1 QB might get injured playing teams like Bama.

That's Coaching 101... not a "bunch of crap".

College teams aren't pro where free agency applies. Butch was dealt a weak hand. We all know Marquez north was our star player. When he went down, there went our chances. It's not like the oddsmakers made us an overwhelming pick. Also, Jason croom was injured and Dobbs had a broke hand. At some point, you can't make a silk purse out of sows ear. I know you don't apply common sense but prefer to apply some matrix or arbitrary goal to coach jones, but at some point, injuries aren't possible to overcome.
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EVERYONE has injuries. That team was NOT prepared to go even two deep. Not talking about going two deep without a talent drop off... talking two deep with people who had been coached to know what was going on around them.

This will naturally get better. It wasn't a easy hand to deal with. But it was something that a good coach should have done better.
 
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#64
#64
BeattieFeathers said:
You can find a volquest poll on line where 50 percent of the subscribers predicted we would be undefeated in 2005. In spite of the fact that not many teams in the BCS era have achieved that accomplishment. We have one national title in 65 years, yet our fan base fully expects it or else. Fans and especially vol fans are completely unrealistic.
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Speaking of an absolute bunch of crap.... THIS IS.

Expecting a coach to do a credible job of coaching is neither unrealistic nor a "win the NC or else" approach.

I expect us to be in the hunt for the east and sec most years, say 8 out of 10 years and expect to go to atlanta three or four times. I don't that is unrealistic.
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Well... that's a change of tune. Now if we can just get you to say that you should hold coaches accountable for moving in that direction.... "or else".

BTW, if UT does that then they will likely win a NC in that 10 years.
 
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#65
#65
sjt18 said:
Speaking of an absolute bunch of crap.... THIS IS.

Expecting a coach to do a credible job of coaching is neither unrealistic nor a "win the NC or else" approach.


Well... that's a change of tune. Now if we can just get you to say that you should hold coaches accountable for moving in that direction.... "or else".

BTW, if UT does that then they will likely win a NC in that 10 years.
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Fulmer went to atlanta 5 times in 10 years and was in the hunt in all but two or three. He actually tied for the east in 2003.
 
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#66
#66
BeattieFeathers said:
Fulmer went to atlanta 5 times in 10 years and was in the hunt in all but two or three. He actually tied for the east in 2003.
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He actually had two losing seasons in his last 4, had more players on the police blotter than All Conference list on a consistent basis, had come to the point where he flat out couldn't get DT's or OL's to sign with him, proved he couldn't succeed without Cut NOR find and hire quality assistants, made a habit of finding highly rated busts and thugs, failed to discipline his staff, failed to discipline his players,... do I need to go on?

He declined. It happens. But sort of like alcoholism, the first step to getting better is admitting you have a problem. Fulmer absolutely refused to admit he needed to change. That fact coupled with the direction of the program left no doubt to any rational person that is was time for him to move on.

What he left was terrible. The roster was thin and weak. Discipline was nil. It is VERY unlikely that Fulmer could have kept a team out of academic trouble by today's standard without changes... that he refused to make.

Think about this. The two guys who followed him... an absolute louse and a poor coach... got control of off the field "issues" and have maintained control ever sense. If a couple of really bad coaches could do that... why couldn't Fulmer? Short answer: He wouldn't admit he was doing anything wrong to start with.
 
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#67
#67
UTFanForLife said:
Why are we using VN polls as facts? Let's ask a bunch of biased people what our season will be like and then use it to prove a point when it didn't happen.

I'm guessing if you look up most predictions from other people besides this fan base, 5-7 wins would have been what was predicted. We hit the 5 and was 2 crazy plays from the 7. I'm thinking that is pretty dead on.
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We're using them as fact, because...

1. It is a fact. Something documented that you can actually see.

2. Because the notion people are peddling here these days is that hardly anyone expected better than 5-7 at the outset of last season and that's an obvious lie.

3. Because "I'm guessing that if you look up" is not a fact, but purely a vehicle for unsupported speculation (I can link you to plenty of media experts who picked us to make a bowl game last year, so if you want to go down that road, we can...)

4. Because, "we were 2 plays away" is not fact, but a form of make believe silliness that has nothing to do with our actual record (Again, if you want to go down that road, we were also a play away from losing to South Carolina and 2 plays away from losing to South Alabama. Also, how many times was Dooley a play away from victory? All losers come close at some point).
 
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#68
#68
oregonvol said:
We're using them as fact, because...

1. It is a fact. Something documented that you can actually see.

2. Because the notion people are peddling here these days is that hardly anyone expected better than 5-7 at the outset of last season and that's an obvious lie.

3. Because "I'm guessing that if you look up" is not a fact, but purely a vehicle for unsupported speculation (I can link you to plenty of media experts who picked us to make a bowl game last year, so if you want to go down that road, we can...)

4. Because, "we were 2 plays away" is not fact, but a form of make believe silliness that has nothing to do with our actual record (Again, if you want to go down that road, we were also a play away from losing to South Carolina and 2 plays away from losing to South Alabama. Also, how many times was Dooley a play away from victory? All losers come close at some point).
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If you had a mic close by, I hope you dropped it.
 
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#69
#69
The Vandy game put a stink on what was a pretty solid opening season for Jones. We were getting better with Worley each week and gaining confidence. I didn't think Mizzoo would have been as good as they were last year. I thought we were a 6-6 team and one of the six wins would be Mizzoo. I thought our best chance for an upset was SCar to get to 7-5.
 
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#70
#70
oregonvol said:
We're using them as fact, because...

1. It is a fact. Something documented that you can actually see.

2. Because the notion people are peddling here these days is that hardly anyone expected better than 5-7 at the outset of last season and that's an obvious lie.

3. Because "I'm guessing that if you look up" is not a fact, but purely a vehicle for unsupported speculation (I can link you to plenty of media experts who picked us to make a bowl game last year, so if you want to go down that road, we can...)

4. Because, "we were 2 plays away" is not fact, but a form of make believe silliness that has nothing to do with our actual record (Again, if you want to go down that road, we were also a play away from losing to South Carolina and 2 plays away from losing to South Alabama. Also, how many times was Dooley a play away from victory? All losers come close at some point).
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I hate to sound like a fanboy, but your posts lately have been killing it
 
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#71
#71
Under achieved in one game. vandy. And I hate to say it, and I know coaches say games aren't lost on one play. However, 2 losses were a result of 1 play in both games IMO.
 
#72
#72
thebjd said:
The Vandy game put a stink on what was a pretty solid opening season for Jones. We were getting better with Worley each week and gaining confidence. I didn't think Mizzoo would have been as good as they were last year. I thought we were a 6-6 team and one of the six wins would be Mizzoo. I thought our best chance for an upset was SCar to get to 7-5.
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Good post. It took me seeing that the Vandy loss didn't seem to hurt recruiting to feel better about that one. If Jones was going to lose to Vanderbilt or Kentucky, at least he did it in his first year. I missed the poll, but I would've said 6-6 or 7-5 for sure. I thought our O-line would be able to overcome more of our deficiencies. Nobody could've seen Missouri's division title coming. They should certainly savor the flavor because I doubt it will happen again any time soon the way they've been recruiting.
 
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#73
#73
Underachieved. In preseason, no one would have said we were better than South Carolina, but we should have expected to beat Auburn at home off the horrible year they had in 2012. Turns out we weren't as good as Auburn and not as good as South Carolina from a talent perspective. However we were better than Florida and Vanderbilt and should have won both of those games and could have beaten an injury riddled Georgia team. Regardless of what we did in the first 10 games, we should have beaten Vanderbilt and gone to a bowl game.
 
#74
#74
ManchesterV said:
Under achieved in one game. vandy. And I hate to say it, and I know coaches say games aren't lost on one play. However, 2 losses were a result of 1 play in both games IMO.
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I agree on the Vanderbilt game, but after rewatching the Georgia game, I'm pretty sure a Pig touchdown would've been answered by Georgia the way our defense caved at the end of regulation. That's what really cost us the game IMO. Stopping Georgia in regulation would've definitely won the game, but a Pig touchdown in OT? Not necessarily.
 
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#75
#75
508mikey said:
Anyone knows his real reason was he isnt cut out to be an SEC HC
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The point here is that injuries happen. It's up to the coaching staff to overcome them. In Dooley's 2nd season, the games againt Fl, Ga, SC, and Ky become very winnable with a healthy Hunter and Bray. Instead, they finished 5-7 with the fan base calling for his head. Fans look at records, not reasons. Likeability alone should give CBJ at least an extra yr, but I hope he isn't counting on it.
 
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