Orange Bowl at Worst. Sugar a possibility.

[sjt18]

1. Texas A&M went 5-7 after pulling one of the best classes ever (maybe the BEST class ever). And they've finished no worse then 9th in recruiting over the last few years. Recruiting rankings don't win games. That's why we play the games.

I actually agree. But in "general" terms over time the higher your rankings the more certain you are to have a talented roster. A&M's problems have nothing to do with talent and they were a tough out at times because of talent. WVU and ISU were never going to show up and be a problem for Bama or LSU because they had overwhelming talent.

2. We aren't talking about going 12-0 in the SEC. We are talking about going 12-1 vs 10-2. 12-1 the Big 12 is absolutely better than going 10-2 in the SEC, especially when you consider TCU was 12-0 before their conf. title game. You're punishing TCU for playing an extra game.

Nope. And you continue to ignore the elephant in the room. The Big 12 as a whole is not as talented as the SEC. The level of competition week in, week out is nowhere near as high. If your goal is to have the best 4 teams... you simply cannot ignore competition. You just can't. And that's especially true when TCU loses their championship to a 3 loss team.

Again, you refuse to answer the question. What would Bama's chances be of running the table and blowing almost everyone out with TCU's schedule? Who would Bama be an underdog to in the Big 12 including TCU? Put your "realistic" hat on if you have one and ask yourself honestly would TCU win either division in the SEC? Come in 2nd? 3rd?

3. Which team is more talented is irrelevant. That's why you play the games. We're not nearly as talented as Bama is, but we still won.

No it isn't. Talent isn't an absolute predictor of particular games but it IS a highly accurate predictor over time. If what you are saying is true then only records should count for G-5 or even FCS or DII schools. Competition doesn't matter. Talent doesn't matter. If you can find enough Colorado level teams to fill out a 12 game schedule then you're in, right?

 

[Carp]

Considering Bama played Texas worse than TCU did and also nearly lost to A&M, I don't particularly like their chances of running the table in the Big 12 either this year. Let's remember that it took some truly BS officiating for Bama to even win those 2 games. They could easily have been 8-4 instead of 10-2. Bama isn't the juggernaut you think they are this year.

Bama couldn't win the SEC West in year that was probably the worst the SEC West has been in nearly a decade. I know they have Bryce Young and Gibbs, but their offense really lacked playmakers at WR and TE and their defense was suspect for much of the season.

 

[87&91ALUM]

Home field advantage….UT over Bama, Georgia over Tennessee, and USCe over Tennessee. Home field made a difference in these games for sure. LSU was out fanned 10-1 in the SEC Championship game. There were exceptions like LSU laying an egg to UT at home. This will be one of the more interesting Bowl/playoffs in a while. Hope UT can out fan Clemson in the Orange Bowl. Go Vols!

 

[JoAllan]

They base that off of what? Wins and losses, correct? So K-State is a better championship opponent (and champion) than LSU? UT? Bama?

Out of the top 6 teams in the SEC, which would not be where TCU is or better if they had their schedule? That's UGA, UT, USCe, LSU, Bama, and MSU. I feel fairly confident that Ole Miss would have a pretty good shot at doing so.

Maybe you can explain how UGA plays Oregon while TCU plays Colorado and the Horny Toads have the harder schedule? Who on TCU's schedule was as good as UT or LSU? It is very possible that their "SOS" was enhanced by playing an additional conference game... albeit in a weak conference.

it’s not just wins and losses

It’s also where you play, home or away, opponents wins and losses…..ect.

Georgia got their toughest opponent at home. Georgia also got Oregon basically at home. Georgia didn’t play the toughest of west teams.

k-ST was ranked higher than LSU, or Purdue, or UNC or Utah…….so TCU played the toughest opponent in a conference championship of Georgia, Michigan, USC, Clemson

It is what it is…..TCU’s SOS is the strongest in the playoff

 

[sjt18]

it’s not just wins and losses

It’s also where you play, home or away, opponents wins and losses…..ect.

Georgia got their toughest opponent at home. Georgia also got Oregon basically at home. Georgia didn’t play the toughest of west teams.

k-ST was ranked higher than LSU, or Purdue, or UNC or Utah…….so TCU played the toughest opponent in a conference championship of Georgia, Michigan, USC, Clemson

It is what it is…..TCU’s SOS is the strongest in the playoff

So you are sitting there and seriously believe that TCU played in a conference equally as difficult as the SEC or Pac12... or even played a team the quality of Michigan or OSU? You seriously believe that they're one of the 4 best teams in the country? You want Oregon on a neutral site? I'll take Colorado in Boulder any time.

And please don't tell me you think K-State would beat LSU. I actually like and respect KSU for who and what they are. Manhattan, KS isn't exactly the easiest place in the world to recruit to. But regardless of ranking they'd be a significant underdog if they played LSU.... or UNC... or Utah.

So no. They didn't play the toughest opponent of the P-5 contenders... and they lost.

 

[JoAllan]

So you are sitting there and seriously believe that TCU played in a conference equally as difficult as the SEC or Pac12... or even played a team the quality of Michigan or OSU? You seriously believe that they're one of the 4 best teams in the country? You want Oregon on a neutral site? I'll take Colorado in Boulder any time.

And please don't tell me you think K-State would beat LSU. I actually like and respect KSU for who and what they are. Manhattan, KS isn't exactly the easiest place in the world to recruit to. But regardless of ranking they'd be a significant underdog if they played LSU.... or UNC... or Utah.

So no. They didn't play the toughest opponent of the P-5 contenders... and they lost.

where did I say the B-12 is as tough at the SEC?

Why make stuff up, because I didn’t say that.

I said TCU’s SOS is 25 & Georgia’s is 36. (Per ESPN) - (per Team-Rankings - TCU = 12 & Georgia = 25)

I also never said TCU was one of the 4 best teams. However they went 12-0, made their championship, lost 1 game to the 9th ranked team by 2 in OT…..to a team they have beaten by 10, they have the SOS, they have the SOR, they have good wins, they have everything.

Feel free to “think” whatever you want. However facts are REAL.

 

[molsen81]

If we can just both schools wear Orange at the Orange Bowl, then we will have the worst bowl selection in college football history.........

 

[sjt18]

where did I say the B-12 is as tough at the SEC?

Then why are you arguing that the record alone should be important even in a less competitive conference? If they are not equal then it is perfectly reasonable to say a 2 loss SEC team may be more deserving than a one loss Big 12 team.

Why make stuff up, because I didn’t say that.

If it is not a direct implication of what you've been arguing... then why do you continue to argue?

I said TCU’s SOS is 25 & Georgia’s is 36. (Per ESPN) - (per Team-Rankings - TCU = 12 & Georgia = 25)

Right. And that is based on records, correct? Big 12 is a weaker conference. So a 7-5 Big 12 team is likely not as good as a 7-5 SEC team... so less of a challenge to TCU. Can you see that?

I also never said TCU was one of the 4 best teams. However they went 12-0, made their championship, lost 1 game to the 9th ranked team by 2 in OT…..to a team they have beaten by 10, they have the SOS, they have the SOR, they have good wins, they have everything.

So you are now contradicting yourself? They "deserve" to be in but they aren't one of the 4 best teams? Their record matters in spite of acknowledging that it was accomplished against an easier schedule?

Feel free to “think” whatever you want. However facts are REAL.

You are dealing with "facts". If you want to say that only the record matters then say so. If you want to say that competition should factor in then say so. If you want to say something else then say that. So far you are self-contradictory.

 

[JoAllan]

Then why are you arguing that the record alone should be important even in a less competitive conference? If they are not equal then it is perfectly reasonable to say a 2 loss SEC team may be more deserving than a one loss Big 12 team.

If it is not a direct implication of what you've been arguing... then why do you continue to argue?

Right. And that is based on records, correct? Big 12 is a weaker conference. So a 7-5 Big 12 team is likely not as good as a 7-5 SEC team... so less of a challenge to TCU. Can you see that?

So you are now contradicting yourself? They "deserve" to be in but they aren't one of the 4 best teams? Their record matters in spite of acknowledging that it was accomplished against an easier schedule?


You are dealing with "facts". If you want to say that only the record matters then say so. If you want to say that competition should factor in then say so. If you want to say something else then say that. So far you are self-contradictory.

just get over yourself

I clearly showed their strength of schedule

Then you go on “is likely not as good”…….hypothetical as in NOT real…..we don’t know. Bama played Texas who was without their QB and needed a miracle to win by 1……..TCU beat them by more and was winning the entire game…….Texas was at full strength

Again they had a HARDER schedule than Georgia did, than Michigan did, than OSU did……guy facts actually matter.

TCU has the SOS
TUC has the SOR
TCU has the wins
TCU has the record
TCU has the “good loss”

What else do YOU need? They don’t play in the SEC…….neither does Michigan or OSU.

Hey TCU has a better win than OSU, they played a tougher schedule than OSU did, yet OSU is also in.

We simply can’t argue “who is the better teams” because that isn’t fact……it’s opinion!!!! Some would say Bama, some Tennessee, heck some would say Clemson, even some would argue Utah……..it’s conjecture.

You have to go by what they did on the field not by what you “think” they “would” do.

 

[StickMan]

So you just ignore competition? That can't be the way it works or your playoff is a complete sham. UT's actual game results is that they beat teams that were better than anyone TCU played... and lost to a couple of teams that in reality would have likely beaten TCU and anyone TCU has played.

The 12 team playoff will resolve some of this argument. Obviously not all since the first few teams out will always argue they should have been in.

This year especially I think quality of competition should have played a role. Two teams actually played their way in. Then you had about 6 teams or so who all had just as good of an argument as the others.

I don't think OSU deserves to be in either. They played a weak schedule and lost to the only good team they played... badly. The Big 10 was abnormally weak this year. The West flat out sucked. PSU as the 3rd best team in the East was a joke.

The SEC was strong and the Pac12.

Definitely agree that OSU doesn't deserve to be in. As much as it pains me to say it, I would've put Alabama in ahead of them. However, I would also contend that we deserved to be ahead of Alabama.

I also feel like the Big 12 was just as strong as the Big 10, and that's why I stick by my argument that TCU did enough. In fact, I predict that their game against Michigan will be very close.

 

[sjt18]

Definitely agree that OSU doesn't deserve to be in. As much as it pains me to say it, I would've put Alabama in ahead of them. However, I would also contend that we deserved to be ahead of Alabama.

Agree.

I also feel like the Big 12 was just as strong as the Big 10, and that's why I stick by my argument that TCU did enough. In fact, I predict that their game against Michigan will be very close.

If you are talking top to bottom then it is pretty close. There are some pretty awful teams in the Big 10. But Michigan and OSU are a different level.

IMHO, Michigan will "Big 10" TCU. They'll muscle up and run the ball all over their D. Michigan actually does have a good D and will expose Duggan much the way K-State did.


I actually would not be disappointed to be wrong. TCU is definitely the least offensive of the 4.

 

[StickMan]

Agree.


If you are talking top to bottom then it is pretty close. There are some pretty awful teams in the Big 10. But Michigan and OSU are a different level.

IMHO, Michigan will "Big 10" TCU. They'll muscle up and run the ball all over their D. Michigan actually does have a good D and will expose Duggan much the way K-State did.
K

I actually would not be disappointed to be wrong. TCU is definitely the least offensive of the 4.

Now we definitely agree on that. Funny thing is, I was pulling big time against TCU when we were still in the picture. It was driving me crazy that they kept pulling these games out of their rear ends. But I grew to respect their grit. Their QB reminds me a bit of Casey Clausen with better wheels. He's a tough competitor.