Over reaction to a Loss on the road

#26
#26
LVJeff said:
Your attempts to explain each LV loss and how we should react to it does a disservice to those of us who have been watching LV basketball for decades.

Your reasons for this loss (bad first quarter, poor shooting, lots of turnovers, no 3-point shooting, inability to match up against quicker guards, short bench, etc...) are a revelation to the rest of us. Goodness, how did we miss all that? Thank you for explaining it. Can you do the same after the next loss? Feel free to use the same reasons. I feel pretty sure they'll apply.
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Dang, LVJeff, I am sorry for taking your lunch money back in the 4th grade and kicking your dog. But, a few clarifications...

First, I ain't telling anyone how to react.

Second, I don't rationalize every loss but I can discriminate based on how the LVs play.

I was very critical of the LVs and Holly early in the season because of poor effort and it appeared that the team did not care (and did not want to play for Holly).

Whatever that problem may have been, the team has made a dramatic turn around and fought like crazy last night. I respect the effort and the reality in sports sometimes the ball bounce does not go your way. The history of the program and your frustration over the LVs not being championship contenders does not change the fact, that the LVs were one shot that rattled in and out from winning the game.

Yes, they could have played better and made some defensive stops, as I noted in my original post but they stayed in the game, when one of their key players was a non-factor and the role players had subpar contributions.

I was not saying, hooray the LVs lost but only that treating this game like it was a replay of say the PSU debacle does a disservice to the team.

To your other comment, about needing to get upset after a loss, I get frustrated whenever the LVs lose. I have been following this team since my UG years [I will date myself as class of 84]. But, tell me what does getting upset about the wins or losses endured by a group of 18-22 year old college athletes, actually accomplish? Does getting apoplectic over a loss change the outcome? I know, fans like me are "tolerating" a lower standard in the LV game. No, not really but does typing venomous words on a key board change the score or player performances?

But you are free to ignore my game analyses and I am sorry that you feel that my points about short benches, shooting deficiencies, not matching up well against quicker guards simply lack the sophistication and nuanced understanding of the other "demanding fans" who flood the board after defeats but seem to have other things to do after wins.

So, let me update my post to reiterate this far more insightful and informed perspective -- HOLLY SUCKS!!!

Yes, saying those mellifluous words makes it all better...
 
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#27
#27
madtownvol said:
Dang, LVJeff, I am sorry for taking your lunch money back in the 4th grade and kicking your dog. But, a few clarifications...

First, I ain't telling anyone how to react.

Second, I don't rationalize every loss but I can discriminate based on how the LVs play.

I was very critical of the LVs and Holly early in the season because of poor effort and it appeared that the team did not care (and did not want to play for Holly).

Whatever that problem may have been, the team has made a dramatic turn around and fought like crazy last night. I respect the effort and the reality in sports sometimes the ball bounce does not go your. The history of the program and your frustration over the LVs not being championship contenders does not change the fact, that the LVs were one shot that rattled in and out from winning the game.

Yes, they could have played better and made some defensive stops, as I noted in my original post but they stayed in the game, when one of their key players was a non-factor and the role players had subpar contributions.

I was not saying, hooray the LVs lost but only that treating this game like it was a replay of say the PSU debacle does a disservice to the team.

To your other comment, about needing to get upset after a loss, I get frustrated whenever the LVs lose. I have been following this team since my UG years [I will date myself as class of 84]. But, tell me what does getting upset about the wins or losses endured by a group of 18-22 year old college athletes, actually accomplish? Does getting apoplectic over a loss change the outcome? I know, fans like me are "tolerating" a lower standard in the LV game. No, not really but does typing venomous words on a key board change the score or player performances?

But you are free to ignore my game analyses and I am sorry that you feel that my points about short benches, shooting deficiencies, not matching up well against quicker guards simply lack the sophistication and nuanced understanding of the other "demanding fans" who flood the board after defeats but seem to have other things to do after wins.

So, let me update my post to reiterate this far more insightful and informed perspective -- HOLLY SUCKS!!!

Yes, saying those mellifluous words makes it all better...
Click to expand...

Pretty much my feelings as well.
 
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#29
#29
Letting Warlick coach this program for six years has been a MAJOR mistake by Hart. With each passing year our mystique fades a little more and a little more ... until there is no mystique, just an chronically underachieving program.
 
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#31
#31
The loss probably killed any chance at all of playing NCAA games at home but other than that was just another bad loss. From here on in were probably playing for just our final record before the NCAA tourney. The only thing that would probably change that is to win out and that means winning as Miss St. Something we used to not ever worry about but in the Holly era things have changed as we make new negative records on a weekly basis.
 
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#32
#32
LVJeff said:
Your attempts to explain each LV loss and how we should react to it does a disservice to those of us who have been watching LV basketball for decades.

Your reasons for this loss (bad first quarter, poor shooting, lots of turnovers, no 3-point shooting, inability to match up against quicker guards, short bench, etc...) are a revelation to the rest of us. Goodness, how did we miss all that? Thank you for explaining it. Can you do the same after the next loss? Feel free to use the same reasons. I feel pretty sure they'll apply.
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In a previous post around Christmas time,he said he was Deep thinker just like the guy who makes coffee and sells it at an exorbitant price most successfully.This is his way of reminding us of that fact and tell those who have been critical of the loss to bugger off.
 
#36
#36
alexvol said:
In a previous post around Christmas time,he said he was Deep thinker just like the guy who makes coffee and sells it at an exorbitant price most successfully.This is his way of reminding us of that fact and tell those who have been critical of the loss to bugger off.
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Ah, are you an "alternative fact" guy because I never made a post like that?

As for your mind reading skills, maybe those could use some work as well.

Have a nice day:hi:
 
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#37
#37
LVJeff said:
You said we over-reacted, so, yeah, you're telling us how to react.
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Really?

I would suggest that proclaiming "hey, everyone should calm down"; "hey people, chill out, its all good"; "go out and riot in the streets and burn Holly in effigy" and so on would be telling people how to react.

I was giving as opinion on the board reaction.

But if you really wanted to go that route, then everyone is telling everyone how to react. You are telling me how to react - don't react to a loss by telling people how to react!

When people say Holly should be fired that implies an intended reaction on the part of the audience and indeed an effort persuade others to react in a particular way.

Indeed, you posted that I need to get upset after a loss, which kind of implies that I should react in a particular way.

So, in the end, it comes down to everyone on this board needs to be anti-Holly all the time or else you are committing a transgression. So much for dissenting opinions I suppose. :hi:
 
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#38
#38
Volfan2012 said:
The loss probably killed any chance at all of playing NCAA games at home but other than that was just another bad loss. From here on in were probably playing for just our final record before the NCAA tourney. The only thing that would probably change that is to win out and that means winning as Miss St. Something we used to not ever worry about but in the Holly era things have changed as we make new negative records on a weekly basis.
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I don't think it yet killed the chance to play at home. A win at MSU and/or getting to the SEC championship game (which would likely mean beating MSU or USC) would go a long way.

Slips by other teams hovering around the 4/5 seed bubble area would help, as well. aTm is one of those teams, so beating them on Sunday is important. If DePaul loses any other Big East games, no way they end up top 16. Louisville looked terrible last night and if they and/or Miami have early ACC tourney exits, that only helps us.
 
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#39
#39
Good, thoughtful analysis, madtown, but it didn't take long for the predictable "Holly sucks" bashing to be redirected to you. Regardless of the outcome, I think it was valuable for the team to get a 2-OT game under their belt at this point in the season and good to see they didn't fold. If some of the players will get in the gym, maybe we can gain some shooting consistency whose lack continues to be a problem.
 
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#40
#40
madtownvol said:
Ah, are you an "alternative fact" guy because I never made a post like that?

As for your mind reading skills, maybe those could use some work as well.

Have a nice day:hi:
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No alternatives needed sir ....you made those comments and that sir is a fact.No mind reading needed ....none at all.

And most all my days are nice ...hope you can have one ....it is sorely needed.
 
#41
#41
alexvol said:
No alternatives needed sir ....you made those comments and that sir is a fact.No mind reading needed ....none at all.

And most all my days are nice ...hope you can have one ....it is sorely needed.
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Alexvol, you either have me confused with another poster or you are making crap up.

I assure you I would never post anything as sophomoric as the attributed comment.

And factual claims require evidence not just assertions (or at least they used to)....So put up or well, you know....
 
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#42
#42
Lady Vols can win by 30 or lose by 30 and no one is surprised. That kind of unpredictable uncertainty with the talent this team has would seem to directly point at coaching. You NEVER know what you're gonna get with this team. THAT is inexcusable imo.

At the end of the day...Holly just loses waaaay too damn much..and always has. Even with top talent. You don't this crap with UCONN or Baylor...who are taught by their coaches well enough so they don't take games off...and their fundamentals are top notch. But back to the losing. 8 losses AGAIN this year already. With this talent? How can anyone make a case for her?
 
#43
#43
djohnnyg said:
Lady Vols can win by 30 or lose by 30 and no one is surprised. That kind of unpredictable uncertainty with the talent this team has would seem to directly point at coaching. You NEVER know what you're gonna get with this team. THAT is inexcusable imo.

At the end of the day...Holly just loses waaaay too damn much..and always has. Even with top talent. You don't this crap with UCONN or Baylor...who are taught by their coaches well enough so they don't take games off...and their fundamentals are top notch. But back to the losing. 8 losses AGAIN this year already. With this talent? How can anyone make a case for her?
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Again, I think our talent factor is over rated (and that can go on Holly). We have three quality players and everyone knows who they are.

After that, would Jordan be the starting PG for any team on the top 10? Nope and probably not the top 20 either.

Would Meme be a starter for any team in the top 10, top 20? Again, I don't think so.

I don't think Middleton or Dunbar, despite their HS credentials, would see much game time for a top 20 team either.

Nunn maybe of late has played at a level where she might get some court time for teams out of the top 5.

I think Te'a would likely be in the more or less elite set with DD, JN, and MR but injuries happen and teams need to have a plan B. Holly's inability to sign a quality guard for this season is another failing that in hindsight of Cooper's injury looms large.

With the LVs Big 3 and 3 competent role players, plus one who can shine in moments, however, this team could still be doing better so I am not saying "nominate HW for coach of the year." But, the reality is that their margin of error is small. And they have to work their butts off every game.

Against GA, they really did that but just did not make enough plays. So, my point was that this loss was qualitatively different from the losses to PSU or the Baylor blow out (where the team looked indifferent).
 
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#44
#44
madtownvol said:
Again, I think our talent factor is over rated (and that can go on Holly). We have three quality players and everyone knows who they are.

After that, would Jordan be the starting PG for any team on the top 10 (nope) and probably not the top 20.

Would Meme be a starter for any team in the top 10, top 20? Again, I don't think so.

I don't think Middleton or Dunbar, despite their HS credentials would see much game time for a top 20 team.

Nunn maybe of late has played at a level where she might get some court time for teams out of the top 5.
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There are players on Top 10 teams who are not as talented/athletically gifted as MeMe or Jordan, but their coaches get more out of them. Dominique Dillingham at MSU will never make the WNBA, but she is a smart player and plays hard. I think that has more to do with coaching than the player themselves.

If MeMe or Jordan played under a better coach like Geno or Kim, and was relied on to the same degree they are at Tennessee (and not just some bench warmer) I would bet money that they would be more productive and overall better players than they are at Tennessee.

The ultra talented players like MR, Jaime and DD will find their way eventually, but it's that second tier that Tennessee has failed to develop in quite some time.
 
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#45
#45
madtownvol said:
...
So, in the end, it comes down to everyone on this board needs to be anti-Holly all the time or else you are committing a transgression. So much for dissenting opinions I suppose. :hi:
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Not at all. I never said a thing about Holly and usually don't. I believe it is possible to recognize the team's shortcomings without having a meltdown over it. But if you are allowed a dissenting opinion, so am I. I didn't over-react to the loss. You under-reacted. :)
 
#46
#46
LVJeff said:
Not at all. I never said a thing about Holly and usually don't. I believe it is possible to recognize the team's shortcomings without having a meltdown over it. But if you are allowed a dissenting opinion, so am I. I didn't over-react to the loss. You under-reacted. :)
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Fair enough.:yes:
 
#49
#49
HW needs a new wardrobe the TJ Maxx and Alfred Dunner garb is so unprofessional compared to CPS Armani and Versace suits
 
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