Pac-12 player group threatens to opt out, makes list of demands on injustice, safety

[sona]

If I am negotiating this I would have two envelopes on my desk for each player. The first would contain a bus ticket home, the second financial aid forms should they desire to remain in school.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Some of the stuff in there is comical. I think the PAC 12 should do away with excess expenditures. Put your players on a school bus and drive them to games, strip down their locker rooms, do away with inside practice fields. Those are just a few examples of excess expenditures.

 

[Wireless1]

Isn't it amazing that the sports that guarantee full rides for all, are the ones leading the revolt. Don't hear the baseball or men's track athletes complaining.
Wonder if the NCAA passed a rule year 1 full ride, after that partial scholarships to create the revenue to fund these "programs"
Maybe they'd like to leave school with $100K in student loans like some of the walk-ons.

 

[Dudleys87]

If you want to get paid your now basically a walk on.

Get a job
Pay your way
Make the grade
Make every class
Maintain the required GPA
Don’t miss practice
And don’t forget to include meal plans, they’re pricey!

Add all that up and tell me which one puts you in a better place after 4 years.

 

[Dudleys87]

If I am negotiating this I would have two envelopes on my desk for each player. The first would contain a bus ticket home, the second financial aid forms should they desire to remain in school.

Make it fun.
Make them play roulette since they’re so unhappy and ungrateful.

 

[MAUSERWERKE]

Not Covid (of course it will-it has nothing better to do).

Will this player boycott spread from the Pac12 to other conferences? I fear that it will. Just another data point that a 2020 college football season may be just a mirage.

The long term outlook for college athletics is in serious doubt, IMHO. Perhaps college football will return to the days of decades ago, where it was truly an amateur sport for "student-athletes" rather than a semi-pro entertainment complex bolted on to universities (a total mismatch in missions, it seems to me).

I don't know. Something is happening.

 

[05_never_again]

I love seeing the SJW movement devour itself

It's so ironic that much of what they are demanding could be described as more capitalistic than the current system. Clay Travis is dead right that if football and men's basketball players get to keep 50% of the revenue their sports generate, all of the other sports would go away.

 

[Tnman1]

The players are not thinking about what the IRS will do to a tax free scholarship when they start getting paid for it.

 

[Wireless1]

The players are not thinking about what the IRS will do to a tax free scholarship when they start getting paid for it.

Welcome to a big boy world.....

 

[MAUSERWERKE]

Some of this Pac12 stuff is clearly fantasy land. But, one cannot ignore the fact that the players, whose activities generate huge amounts of money for universities, TV networks, coaches (and almost all of the nonrevenue college teams) do not get anywhere approaching a proportionate piece of the revenue generated. They get a college scholarship. Yes. But in the scheme of the billions of dollars generated by their play, this is a trivial amount of money. The fact is the vast majority of college football players will never play professionally and grab the brass ring of generational wealth. Asking them to come to campus and play ball when colleges are telling their general student body to stay home is huge red flag for these athletes. At the end of the day, the mission of a university is incompatible with a huge revenue generating entertainment complex. This has been evident for decades. It just took the effects of the pandemic to bring it into sharper relief. Where this ends up, who knows? In any event, I think it portends badly for a 2020 season.

 

[Doberman]

Some of this Pac12 stuff is clearly fantasy land. But, one cannot ignore the fact that the players, whose activities generate huge amounts of money for universities, TV networks, coaches (and almost all of the nonrevenue college teams) do not get anywhere approaching a proportionate piece of the revenue generated. They get a college scholarship. Yes. But in the scheme of the billions of dollars generated by their play, this is a trivial amount of money. The fact is the vast majority of college football players will never play professionally and grab the brass ring of generational wealth. Asking them to come to campus and play ball when colleges are telling their general student body to stay home is huge red flag for these athletes. At the end of the day, the mission of a university is incompatible with a huge revenue generating entertainment complex. This has been evident for decades. It just took the effects of the pandemic to bring it into sharper relief. Where this ends up, who knows? In any event, I think it portends badly for a 2020 season.

Nor do I get anywhere close to attaining a proportionate piece of my company's revenue. My salary would be considered trivial in comparison.

I go to work anyway, but I DON'T have to.

 

[EZE]

BRAVO. You just nailed it. On Par with the Looting, Burning KILLING, & General Destruction under the guise of "Protesting"

“Peaceful” protesting...let’s not forget the media’s all-important, favorite adjective.

 

[Dudleys87]

Most of them would be crying uncle if they had a job, school, and practice after 2-3 weeks. Begging and pleading to go back.

 

[MAUSERWERKE]

Nor do I get anywhere close to attaining a proportionate piece of my company's revenue. My salary would be considered trivial in comparison.

I go to work anyway, but I DON'T have to.

Yes, but you also have the right to organize with your co workers to address the terms of your employment. The players are not considered "employees" so they currently do not. In any event, the players "don't have to" go to work either. If enough of them don't that's it for this season. That's all I am saying.

 

[Wireless1]

Some of this Pac12 stuff is clearly fantasy land. But, one cannot ignore the fact that the players, whose activities generate huge amounts of money for universities, TV networks, coaches (and almost all of the nonrevenue college teams) do not get anywhere approaching a proportionate piece of the revenue generated. They get a college scholarship. Yes. But in the scheme of the billions of dollars generated by their play, this is a trivial amount of money. The fact is the vast majority of college football players will never play professionally and grab the brass ring of generational wealth. Asking them to come to campus and play ball when colleges are telling their general student body to stay home is huge red flag for these athletes. At the end of the day, the mission of a university is incompatible with a huge revenue generating entertainment complex. This has been evident for decades. It just took the effects of the pandemic to bring it into sharper relief. Where this ends up, who knows? In any event, I think it portends badly for a 2020 season.

These players have been fed a line which many of us have eagerly swallowed too. These players have not been the ones to make the Universities billions. Marketers (mostly TV) have done all the work. Yes the players are on the field but how many quit watching when Peyton left, no we just got behind the next QB, the the next, then the next. Our best running back each year is our best. If all these players decide to pack their bags there will be a dozen players lined up to take their scholarship. If it gets low enough on the list, I'll gladly accept a scholarship year. After paying for my school (including a return trip for a graduate degree 16 years later) and three children, I know what that degree really costs.

 

[05_never_again]

Some of this Pac12 stuff is clearly fantasy land. But, one cannot ignore the fact that the players, whose activities generate huge amounts of money for universities, TV networks, coaches (and almost all of the nonrevenue college teams) do not get anywhere approaching a proportionate piece of the revenue generated. They get a college scholarship. Yes. But in the scheme of the billions of dollars generated by their play, this is a trivial amount of money. The fact is the vast majority of college football players will never play professionally and grab the brass ring of generational wealth. Asking them to come to campus and play ball when colleges are telling their general student body to stay home is huge red flag for these athletes. At the end of the day, the mission of a university is incompatible with a huge revenue generating entertainment complex. This has been evident for decades. It just took the effects of the pandemic to bring it into sharper relief. Where this ends up, who knows? In any event, I think it portends badly for a 2020 season.

I'm not opposed to them being paid, or at least being able to sell their likenesses. I just think it is ironic that much of what they call for in this sounds like things they'd end up hating. For example, the players in the big revenue-producing sports would get paid more. Won't that be "unfair?" The non-revenue producing sports would likely go away, since they are subsidized by the revenue-producing ones. Also "unfair," right? Women's sports would be disproportionately impacted; what they are proposing would have huge Title IX implications. Also "unfair."

 

[MAUSERWERKE]

I'm not opposed to them being paid, or at least being able to sell their likenesses. I just think it is ironic that much of what they call for in this sounds like things they'd end up hating. For example, the players in the big revenue-producing sports would get paid more. Won't that be "unfair?" The non-revenue producing sports would likely go away, since they are subsidized by the revenue-producing ones. Also "unfair," right? Women's sports would be disproportionately impacted; what they are proposing would have huge Title IX implications. Also "unfair."

Yes, the Title IX implications of any moves in the directions being advocated would be significant. I don't know how all this will play out. But in every entertainment industry I am aware of, the performers make a significant chunk of the money. Especially in pro sports, which is the easiest to analogize college sports to. I think that is the real conundrum college ADs and commissioners are facing right now. They are managing a sport that for all intents and purposes looks like a professional entertainment enterprise. It is, for everyone except the performers. That's the problem.

 

[05_never_again]

Yes, the Title IX implications of any moves in the directions being advocated would be significant. I don't know how all this will play out. But in every entertainment industry I am aware of, the performers make a significant chunk of the money. Especially in pro sports, which is the easiest to analogize college sports to. I think that is the real conundrum college ADs and commissioners are facing right now. They are managing a sport that for all intents and purposes looks like a professional entertainment enterprise. It is, for everyone except the performers. That's the problem.

That's kind of my point. In order for the "college athletes need to get paid crowd" to get what they want, they are also going to have to give up other things they hold dear, namely all the non-revenue producing sports and pretty much all women's sports, except maybe women's basketball. I don't think they are looking at this from that angle. They might think they want college athletics run more like a professional sports league, but the funny thing is that I don't think they actually want that.

Once players got paid, many people (not saying you) on that side of the argument would immediately pivot to an argument that college sports is sexist, non-inclusive, too "money-minded," is being run "too much like professional sports," or some other epithet because all the sports that don't bring in any money on their own were shut down. I don't think many folks in that crowd are going to be OK with football and men's basketball players making a ton of money while all the other sports are shut down. This is a complicated deal, not akin to a stand-alone professional sports league, because football and men's basketball finance all the other athletic endeavors at the school. I think the revenue-producing players should get paid, but unfortunately it isn't that simple.

 

[RobertPellitt]

I absolutely love this. True, they may not get everything they want, but I am sure they knew that going in, that is a very good negotiating tactic. It warms my heart when a group that was perceived to have no voice or authority is able to grab the reigns and force change. They know now how important they are to the NCAA and College Athletics and they are going to demand equality, fairness and topple the system that allows college coaches and Conference Commissioners to be multi-millionaires. The fact that a Middle School Gym Teacher like Butch Jones conned himself into a contract that paid him millions for failures is the ultimate problem. Maybe next the student athletes could get a reduction of the ticket price for us fans as well.

 

[05_never_again]

I absolutely love this. True, they may not get everything they want, but I am sure they knew that going in, that is a very good negotiating tactic. I warms my heart when a group that was perceived to have no voice or authority is able to grab the reigns and force change. They know now how important they are to the NCAA and College Athletics and they are going to demand equality, fairness and topple the system that allows college coaches and Conference Commissioners to be multi-millionaires. The fact that a Middle School Gym Teacher like Butch Jones conned himself into a contract that paid him millions for failures is the ultimate problem. Maybe next the student athletes could get a reduction of the ticket price for us fans as well.

If they're getting paid, they sure as hell won't be advocating for ticket price cuts.

 

[MAUSERWERKE]

That's kind of my point. In order for the "college athletes need to get paid crowd" to get what they want, they are also going to have to give up other things they hold dear, namely all the non-revenue producing sports and pretty much all women's sports, except maybe women's basketball. I don't think they are looking at this from that angle. They might think they want college athletics run more like a professional sports league, but the funny thing is that I don't think they actually want that.

Once players got paid, many people (not saying you) on that side of the argument would immediately pivot to an argument that college sports is sexist, non-inclusive, too "money-minded," is being run "too much like professional sports," or some other epithet because all the sports that don't bring in any money on their own were shut down. I don't think many folks in that crowd are going to be OK with football and men's basketball players making a ton of money while all the other sports are shut down. This is a complicated deal, not akin to a stand-alone professional sports league, because football and men's basketball finance all the other athletic endeavors at the school. I think the revenue-producing players should get paid, but unfortunately it isn't that simple.

Your points are well taken. I guess, ultimately, my thinking is that big time college sports and colleges are headed for a divorce. Having one money generating team (football) where the players get paid is totally incompatible with the notion of gender equity proscribed by Title IX. Which one will give? I don't know, but I can foresee a situation where big money college sports morphs into a semi-pro league where maybe teams are affiliated with a university or a state, but are not "owned" or run by the university. Who knows?

 

[cardvolfan]

Nor do I get anywhere close to attaining a proportionate piece of my company's revenue. My salary would be considered trivial in comparison.

I go to work anyway, but I DON'T have to.

I agree. Where did we start thinking that I as an employee deserved half (or a huge portion) of what my employer built? That employer initially laid it all on the line financially and with sweat equity, for starters. I agreed to a salary that was appropriate and in line with market value. They continue to run all the inherent risks of financial collapse, lawsuits, etc, yet should give their employees half (or whatever huge amount we're talking about here) even though the employees don't share equally in all the risks?

I could only wish it had been that way my whole career, but rightfully so, it wasn't. Seems as if everyone wants something for nothing these days.

 

[05_never_again]

Your points are well taken. I guess, ultimately, my thinking is that big time college sports and colleges are headed for a divorce. Having one money generating team (football) where the players get paid is totally incompatible with the notion of gender equity proscribed by Title IX. Which one will give? I don't know, but I can foresee a situation where big money college sports morphs into a semi-pro league where maybe teams are affiliated with a university or a state, but are not "owned" or run by the university. Who knows?

It's definitely headed for a divorce. Whatever its final form is (big football/basketball schools leaving the NCAA to create a superleague that could pay players, etc.) is up for debate, but the current dynamic is not sustainable because it ultimately is an antiquated system still functioning in the modern era. When college sports were first devised, no one could have imagined they'd become the moneymaker they've become.

However, even if a superleague was created where the football and basketball teams were just kind of part of the school, the schools still run into the problem of how to finance the non-revenue producing sports. The football and basketball revenue wouldn't be available in a superleague scenario either. So what do they do - raise tuition prices to even more astronomical levels? I don't think that's workable either.

 

[05_never_again]

I agree. Where did we start thinking that I as an employee deserved half (or a huge portion) of what my employer built? That employer initially laid it all on the line financially and with sweat equity, for starters. I agreed to a salary that was appropriate and in line with market value. They continue to run all the inherent risks of financial collapse, lawsuits, etc, yet should give their employees half (or whatever huge amount we're talking about here) even though the employees don't share equally in all the risks?

I could only wish it had been that way my whole career, but rightfully so, it wasn't. Seems as if everyone wants something for nothing these days.

Employees of course should be allowed to approach an employer and demand a certain share of revenue (effectively the right to organize). Of course, the owner(s) can tell employees to take a hike as well.

I don't have a problem with the players demanding anything - they have the right to do so - but I don't think they really understand at all the implications of what they are demanding. They think this is a simple issue (i.e., my school is cheating me out of money and could just pay me) when in fact it is not.

 

[cardvolfan]

Employees of course should be allowed to approach an employer and demand a certain share of revenue (effectively the right to organize). Of course, the owner(s) can tell employees to take a hike as well.

I don't have a problem with the players demanding anything - they have the right to do so - but I don't think they really understand at all the implications of what they are demanding. They think this is a simple issue (i.e., my school is cheating me out of money and could just pay me) when in fact it is not.

Yes, everyone has the right to ask. They don't have a clear understanding of the complexities I would imagine, but the alternative is that they have some understanding of what they're asking, but in this "me first" society they just don't care.