Pac-12 player group threatens to opt out, makes list of demands on injustice, safety

[LSU-SIU]

Do you not think there is a scenario where the big money college sports get spun off into a semi pro kind of league? How teams could continue to be affiliated with particular schools, I don't know, but I think this is a plausible scenario. There is too much money at stake for interested parties to just walk away.

Wow, Idk, I mean a ton has to happen right now just to get things in order to comply with existing law. I would think its a complicated questions based on the number of entities and third party contracts in place, I mean do some colleges have charters that preclude them doing that or state laws that govern? We could be talking about 50 different sets of rules even at the state level.... let alone anti-trust law. I mean most of them license their name for shirts, stuff... I don't see the difference there if it was something like that. Of course, the one size fits all approach probably wouldn't work for schools outside of the top 50-90 or so.

Of course, they would probably need an anti-trust exemption and that is probably where the nfl stops being friendly. (I'm all for the removal of the nfl's anti-trust exemption)

I can't say it couldn't work on some levels, but I don't think that is possible for the majority of schools, and not sure the fans are going to buy into LSU Tigers Inc. although that is really what it is today.

The schools have ruined college sports the players haven't. I think legally there is some things they could do like you suggest or licensing but its pretty complex, certainly not simple.... and a huge amount of the profit margin would go out the door.

 

[onevol74]

No one should be put in a situation of mandatory exposure to illness or disease, but--

The conditions for scholarship existed before they got there. Tell them to take it or leave it. We might not see the same level of talent on the field but someone will take that scholarship and we will not have the tale wagging the dog.

I have no sympathy for privileged college athletes after having to pay my way through school and work a full time job to make it. Other students live in spartan dorms and modest apartments just to get through school. These kids live a life of luxury and have everything handed to them, including tutors and grades. Put the athletes in a farm system like baseball and let the educational institutions educate those who want to make something of their lives. You can take money from the NFL salaries and subsidize the new farm leagues.

 

[vettefool]

Pac-12 players threaten to opt out, list demands
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
If their demands are met, or if they come to some kind of resolution, I imagine that players across the conferences will be looking to do the same.
I still think that with all of the money that some sports bring in to the coffers, that they should have some sort of financial compensation in addition to their scholarships.

Hit the road jack, and don’t come back no more, no mo

 

[rocktopper16]

Some seem to determined to destroy anything that is "good" in our society.

I didn't get a "free" education and was a very good student. I got a few scholarships but nowhere near what it cost even then. One of my scholarships came with an 8 year military commitment. My sons didn't get a free education. They joined the Air Guard and put their college careers on hold for a year to complete training to pay for college.

Millions of students of all races (many who are more qualified to attend a particular school than those complaining athletes) will graduate college owing $100K or more with FAR less support and job prospects than an athlete who simply takes advantage of the educational opportunity. The scholarship is worth WELL over $100K and much more for some schools.

This is ridiculous. If these players don't want the scholarship then give it to one of the many thousands of young men who can only dream of playing college football at that level.

Been on this board since 2012 and you always hit the nail on the head SJT. Well said!

 

[VegasBaby!]

It's been obvious this day would come one day after the O'Bannon ruling. This particular set of demands is likely a bridge too far, for now. On the other hand, players negotiating coronavirus protections and maybe their own shoe contracts is not out of reach, especially with the NCAA afraid of losing an antitrust case. Over the top coaching salaries and several school's extreme facility improvements already weaken the NCAA's case.

 

[JohnTN]

I think the NFL should contribute to college athletic departments to pay for the college "development league". I also think college athletes should be able to cash in on their NIL.

 

[ABINGDON VOL FAN]

If I am negotiating this I would have two envelopes on my desk for each player. The first would contain a bus ticket home, the second financial aid forms should they desire to remain in school.

Amen.

 

[Pappy]

The players are not thinking about what the IRS will do to a tax free scholarship when they start getting paid for it.

oh, they will cry about that, too and get their way.....taxation is racist don't you know?

 

[Pappy]

No, because unlike Marxists these players are actually working and doing something productive to generate the revenue they want a share of.

ok....do we take out the value of their scholarship to help pay them for the income they help to generate?

 

[MAUSERWERKE]

No. Are you going to donate money to a semi-pro team, I’m not. Are you going to follow a semi-pro team the way you follow college football? I’m not. The money in the system would be greatly reduced if it was semi-pro. For example, Peyton and the Haslam’s are not going to donate millions of dollars to support a semi-pro team. I’m not talking about buying a team, they donate money to UT.

Your answer presumes there is an alternative. If things keep going in the direction they are headed, big money sports and colleges are headed for a break up. Some semblance of college sports may remain, but it will likely be more intramural, non-scholarship based. More like it was back in our parents'/grandparents' time. Well, anyway I don't have a crystal ball, but it seems evident to me that the status quo is not sustainable. JMHO.

 

[Wireless1]

These players don't have a clue. It's their association with the school than creates their worth. Had Alvin Kamara stayed at Alabama would we care about him in the NFL? There have been athletes at Carson Newman that were better than some more recognized UT Athletes but because they're at UT they get the publicity.........which is typically generated by the University.

 

[05_never_again]

These players don't have a clue. It's their association with the school than creates their worth. Had Alvin Kamara stayed at Alabama would we care about him in the NFL? There have been athletes at Carson Newman that were better than some more recognized UT Athletes but because they're at UT they get the publicity.........which is typically generated by the University.

You're totally correct, but I don't think that's a great argument as to why they shouldn't be paid. The same thing can be said about any athlete, or honestly about anybody that works for an organization. An association with the Kansas City Chiefs creates Patrick Mahomes's worth, for example - does that mean he shouldn't be paid? He provides a service to that organization that is in demand.

 

[MAUSERWERKE]

It's been obvious this day would come one day after the O'Bannon ruling. This particular set of demands is likely a bridge too far, for now. On the other hand, players negotiating coronavirus protections and maybe their own shoe contracts is not out of reach, especially with the NCAA afraid of losing an antitrust case. Over the top coaching salaries and several school's extreme facility improvements already weaken the NCAA's case.

I agree. The "student-athlete" concept was a fiction developed by the NCAA to avoid labor laws. It worked fine for decades until the gusher of money started coming into college football (and to a lesser extent basketball) from TV contracts. That created a situation where practically everybody involved--ADs, coaches, TV networks, commentators, etc--were making millions of dollars a year in compensation. Everybody except the performers/players. Very few of these players will ever play professionally, and reap the consequent financial rewards. While a scholarship is valuable, how many "student-athletes," particularly those from disadvantaged backgrounds, really capitalize on it and get a meaningful degree that can lead to a better future? It's on them to do that, true, but the overall picture that gets painted is one where the players get exploited to benefit a very few. I just don't see this as a sustainable situation. College administrators are risk averse creatures. Once the settled narrative is as I have described it, colleges will be looking for a way out. Frankly, grafting a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry onto institutions of higher learning never made a lot of sense. It just evolved that way.

 

[Wireless1]

I agree. The "student-athlete" concept was a fiction developed by the NCAA to avoid labor laws. It worked fine for decades until the gusher of money started coming into college football (and to a lesser extent basketball) from TV contracts. That created a situation where practically everybody involved--ADs, coaches, TV networks, commentators, etc--were making millions of dollars a year in compensation. Everybody except the performers/players. Very few of these players will ever play professionally, and reap the consequent financial rewards. While a scholarship is valuable, how many "student-athletes," particularly those from disadvantaged backgrounds, really capitalize on it and get a meaningful degree that can lead to a better future? It's on them to do that, true, but the overall picture that gets painted is one where the players get exploited to benefit a very few. I just don't see this as a sustainable situation. College administrators are risk averse creatures. Once the settled narrative is as I have described it, colleges will be looking for a way out. Frankly, grafting a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry onto institutions of higher learning never made a lot of sense. It just evolved that way.

I’ll take exception to your comment about few of the players receiving better futures. How many without sports would have attended college, made friends that provided opportunities throughout their lives. No all athletes don’t achieve upper middle class or higher status, but I dare say the majority provided a better life opportunity for their children than they were provided.

 

[davethevol]

I’ll take exception to your comment about few of the players receiving better futures. How many without sports would have attended college, made friends that provided opportunities throughout their lives. No all athletes don’t achieve upper middle class or higher status, but I dare say the majority provided a better life opportunity for their children than they were provided.

I knew a player at UT when I was there who was from one of the projects in Knoxville. Super nice guy who was always cool to me. He locked his keys in his car one night and couldn’t pay for a locksmith, so he borrowed a coat hanger and picked the lock very quickly (he had clearly picked locks before). I would imagine his stint at UT gave him a chance to go places in life and hopefully avoid the wrong paths that many don’t get to escape.

 

[VolPack22]

Do they think they can be NFL players and be college players at the same time? A lot of these demands are completely ridiculous. I wouldn’t even respond to them and if they want to sit out the season then let them sit out. That’s their choice.

 

[tnutater]

The United players have appealed to the California governor for help. Anyone feel better knowing the fruit and nuts politicians will be involved?

 

[LSU-SIU]

The United players have appealed to the California governor for help. Anyone feel better knowing the fruit and nuts politicians will be involved?

You'll eventually have at least 50 different sets of rules on everything from compensation, insurance, employment, and even stupid stuff on this virus. Big $$$ college sports is over for the most part. Of course, many of these schools are going to be going under as well (separate subject).

Many of us have been saying for quite some time that this stuff was going to come crashing down on the schools. The good news for the schools is their administrators haven't been indicted yet. (they got that going for them)

 

[05_never_again]

I agree. The "student-athlete" concept was a fiction developed by the NCAA to avoid labor laws. It worked fine for decades until the gusher of money started coming into college football (and to a lesser extent basketball) from TV contracts. That created a situation where practically everybody involved--ADs, coaches, TV networks, commentators, etc--were making millions of dollars a year in compensation. Everybody except the performers/players. Very few of these players will ever play professionally, and reap the consequent financial rewards. While a scholarship is valuable, how many "student-athletes," particularly those from disadvantaged backgrounds, really capitalize on it and get a meaningful degree that can lead to a better future? It's on them to do that, true, but the overall picture that gets painted is one where the players get exploited to benefit a very few. I just don't see this as a sustainable situation. College administrators are risk averse creatures. Once the settled narrative is as I have described it, colleges will be looking for a way out. Frankly, grafting a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry onto institutions of higher learning never made a lot of sense. It just evolved that way.

When the NCAA was first established, there was no money in college athletics. It wasn't formed with the intention of keeping money out of players' hands; there wasn't any. It was concerned at first with player safety in football (a lot of guys got killed in the really early days of the game) and creating a standardized system of rules. There's nothing inherently stupid or nonsensical about the student-athlete concept, and it absolutely exists at the lower levels of college sports (FCS and especially Division II and below).

It wasn't until money started pouring into it, which nobody ever envisioned could happen, that they started fighting tooth-and-nail to keep the student-athlete concept. Like I said in an earlier post, that is an archaic concept that made sense in 1950 but not today. As you said, it sure as hell was not designed that way.

Also, I think the current model is a raw deal only really for the true superstar athletes. The Johnny Manziels and Zion Williamsons of the world. For the vast majority of players who never go pro, or who never really make a mark on their schools like Johnny Manziel and Zion did, getting college paid for is a pretty good deal.

 

[MAUSERWERKE]

I’ll take exception to your comment about few of the players receiving better futures. How many without sports would have attended college, made friends that provided opportunities throughout their lives. No all athletes don’t achieve upper middle class or higher status, but I dare say the majority provided a better life opportunity for their children than they were provided.

I don't disagree with your comment. But I fear the widespread perception remains one that the players-many of which are minority and from disadvantaged backgrounds-are being exploited to make those at the top very wealthy. I am simply predicting the demise of the concept of "student athlete" with all the attendant consequences.

 

[05_never_again]

I don't disagree with your comment. But I fear the widespread perception remains one that the players-many of which are minority and from disadvantaged backgrounds-are being exploited to make those at the top very wealthy. I am simply predicting the demise of the concept of "student athlete" with all the attendant consequences.

I think that the widespread perception of mass exploitation is wrong. But as they say perception is reality.

When you get down to it it's the superstars - the Cam Newtons, Johnny Manziels, Deshaun Watsons, etc. that don't get a great deal. They are creating value for their schools far in excess of their compensation, and they are forbidden from receiving additional compensation because of a system of rules and regulations that was created over 100 years ago, when there was no money in the sport and it was about creating a level playing field for amateur athletic competition.

Overall, 99% of the kids from bad backgrounds get a great opportunity through college athletics; they get an education which can cost well into the 6 figures at no charge. A kid riding the bench, or with limited playing time over the course of 4 years, or in a non-revenue sport gets a great deal, IMO.

 

[MAUSERWERKE]

I think that the widespread perception of mass exploitation is wrong. But as they say perception is reality.

When you get down to it it's the superstars - the Cam Newtons, Johnny Manziels, Deshaun Watsons, etc. that don't get a great deal. They are creating value for their schools far in excess of their compensation, and they are forbidden from receiving additional compensation because of a system of rules and regulations that was created over 100 years ago, when there was no money in the sport and it was about creating a level playing field for amateur athletic competition.

Overall, 99% of the kids from bad backgrounds get a great opportunity through college athletics; they get an education which can cost well into the 6 figures at no charge. A kid riding the bench, or with limited playing time over the course of 4 years, or in a non-revenue sport gets a great deal, IMO.

Your point is very well taken and should be widely communicated. As usual with "socialism" like the NCAA enforces, the people who are really screwed are the biggest contributors.

 

[kiddiedoc]

They just had a member of these woke brethren on ESPN. I can't believe the media is actually giving this ridiculous story any attention. Let them sit out, give their scholarships to players willing to uphold their responsibilities, and move on. This is like reasoning with a four-year-old having a temper tantrum.

 

[zjcvols]

Everyone is a capitalist until it potentially affects their entertainment.

Hilarious how many people think they should be allowed to make what they can earn, but if someone else is trying to make more money and earn more money, then it’s “SELF ENTITLED SNOWFLAKES TRYING TO RUIN EVERYTHING”

 

[LSU-SIU]

They just had a member of these woke brethren on ESPN. I can't believe the media is actually giving this ridiculous story any attention. Let them sit out, give their scholarships to players willing to uphold their responsibilities, and move on. This is like reasoning with a four-year-old having a temper tantrum.

The schools created the problem that is big $$$ college sports and they also are responsible or partially responsible for the strange swj and communist movements. The monster they created or help create is coming for them.

The schools have become schools in name only, which is why many of them are cancelling crap but not cancelling big time money sports.