Palin: Smart enough to get into UT?

#51
#51
MG1968 said:
ok, then maybe you think McCain/Palin were cool with the internment of Japanese American citizens during WWII.

Perhaps, you're thinking of the Tuckaseegee Experiment. I'm sure McCain/Palin were all for withholding medicine from black men suffering from syphilis.

you make these baseless assumptions, hoping to score a political "point" then when you're called on them, you claim "hyperbole" or "trying to get a rise".
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I really don't think you're playing fair right now, but so be it. What I'm trying to say is that McCain / Palin (especially Palin) are harping on the "exceptionalism" of America, trying to channel Reagan, and have this mentality of "We're number one!" and anyone who looks critically at our policies is "not like us."

V-E Day was 60 years ago, we must adopt a more nuanced viewpoint of ourselves based on history, based on our role in a complex and changing world, of course including our record as a nation for uplifting and leading the world, but also recognizing that other countries (e.g. China, India) are determined to beat us. Just chanting about how great we are is not inspiring.
 
#53
#53
therealUT said:
Apparently treaties and resolutions mean absolutely nothing to you. Good to know.
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Are you kidding? The U.N. was in the process of acting through those treaties and resolutions of which you speak. Yes, it's a slow and bureaucratic process, but it worked beautifully in Gulf I (under a very wise president who also is named Bush). Yes, Saddam was in violation of U.N. resolutions, but had we waited for the inspectors to go in, they would have discovered what we discovered AFTER the war began, i.e. that Iraq had no WMD.
 
#54
#54
#55
#55
CaedmonVol said:
Are you kidding? The U.N. was in the process of acting through those treaties and resolutions of which you speak. Yes, it's a slow and bureaucratic process, but it worked beautifully in Gulf I (under a very wise president who also is named Bush). Yes, Saddam was in violation of U.N. resolutions, but had we waited for the inspectors to go in, they would have discovered what we discovered AFTER the war began, i.e. that Iraq had no WMD.
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The UN Security Council voted against taking military action in Iraq. The inspection teams had been kicked out. Tell me again, how the UN was in the process of acting???

Here is a quote from BHO concerning the matter:
Now let me be clear - I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.
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Yet, he continues on to say that he does not support invading Iraq. The man states that he suffers no illusions, therefore he is convinced, about the weapons Iraq possesses. He also states that Saddam is a butcher and the world would be better off without him.

Is this not the stance of a pacifist?
 
#56
#56
CaedmonVol said:
Oh. Who is the violent socialist, then?
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You need to look a little harder at the forum. You're bringing up a lot of subjects that have been so thoroughly discussed I don't feel like re-explaining them. Alternately, just use google.
 
#57
#57
therealUT said:
You do understand that he qualifies every statement with the phrase, "if we have actionable intelligence."

Actionable intelligence is time sensitive. If we have to wait for actionable intelligence before BHO makes the decision to act, then we will never act, or we will act in a way that is completely ineffective.
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What else are you going to act on? I hope you're not about to make an argument in favor of pre-emptive war, because we can see how unsuccessful that was in Iraq.
 
#58
#58
kptvol said:
You need to look a little harder at the forum. You're bringing up a lot of subjects that have been so thoroughly discussed I don't feel like re-explaining them. Alternately, just use google.
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What, you mean just google "violent socialist"?
 
#59
#59
CaedmonVol said:
What else are you going to act on? I hope you're not about to make an argument in favor of pre-emptive war, because we can see how unsuccessful that was in Iraq.
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Whether or not the intel is actionable, it would be a pre-emptive strike. Last time I checked, the Pakistani government has never condoned any attack, as of yet, against US interests.
 
#61
#61
therealUT said:
The UN Security Council voted against taking military action in Iraq. The inspection teams had been kicked out. Tell me again, how the UN was in the process of acting???

Here is a quote from BHO concerning the matter:

Yet, he continues on to say that he does not support invading Iraq. The man states that he suffers no illusions, therefore he is convinced, about the weapons Iraq possesses. He also states that Saddam is a butcher and the world would be better off without him.

Is this not the stance of a pacifist?
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The Security Council can't authorize military action until the inspectors conclude that there are WMD. OK, Saddam was thwarting the inspectors. There must be some way to take the next step without invading the country. Even if there isn't, you can't fight a war like that without multilateral support, which we didn't really have.
 
#62
#62
CaedmonVol said:
Hence, compared to Governor George W. Bush in 2000, and Palin now, he is WAY more prepared to understand the complexities of what motivates terrorist groups.
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That is just a mind boggling assertion.
 
#63
#63
CaedmonVol said:
you can't fight a war like that without multilateral support, which we didn't really have.
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Just continue to ignore the fact that we did fight that war without multilateral support...and have managed to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

The problem with the war effort was not a lack of support from the world. The problem was a lack of enough troops on the ground in order to stabilize the country. The problem was debaathification and the dismantling of the Iraqi Army and the local Iraqi police. These problems would not have been solved if we had support from the UN or the worldwide community.

These problems arose from a lack of preparation for this kind of war. These problems arose from the arrogant belief in the military community and state department, dating back to the 1980s, that if we applied overwhelming military force, everything else would fall in to place.

Please, read a book and develop your ideas a little deeper.
 
#64
#64
I didnt know this was a political site, but since it is today. I have one question. Obama does have the experience and intelligence?

By the way MG1968, love your avatar. You my friend hit the head on the nail with it. Thats exactly where we are headed under the leadership of NObama and God forbid demorat control of the house and senate.
 
#65
#65
Sadaam had weopon of mass destruction. They are now in syria. that wasnt water they were loading onto trucks wearing full chemical protection suits, prior to our invasion.
 
#67
#67
therealUT said:
Just continue to ignore the fact that we did fight that war without multilateral support...and have managed to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

The problem with the war effort was not a lack of support from the world. The problem was a lack of enough troops on the ground in order to stabilize the country. The problem was debaathification and the dismantling of the Iraqi Army and the local Iraqi police. These problems would not have been solved if we had support from the UN or the worldwide community.

These problems arose from a lack of preparation for this kind of war. These problems arose from the arrogant belief in the military community and state department, dating back to the 1980s, that if we applied overwhelming military force, everything else would fall in to place.

Please, read a book and develop your ideas a little deeper.
Click to expand...

Wow, you know you can be smart and polite at the same time, it's not impossible.
 
#68
#68
CaedmonVol said:
you can't fight a war like that without multilateral support, which we didn't really have.
Click to expand...

therealUT said:
Just continue to ignore the fact that we did fight that war without multilateral support...and have managed to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

The problem with the war effort was not a lack of support from the world. The problem was a lack of enough troops on the ground in order to stabilize the country. The problem was debaathification and the dismantling of the Iraqi Army and the local Iraqi police. These problems would not have been solved if we had support from the UN or the worldwide community.

These problems arose from a lack of preparation for this kind of war. These problems arose from the arrogant belief in the military community and state department, dating back to the 1980s, that if we applied overwhelming military force, everything else would fall in to place.

Please, read a book and develop your ideas a little deeper.
Click to expand...

CaedmonVol said:
Wow, you know you can be smart and polite at the same time, it's not impossible.
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Is this your only response to my post?
 
#70
#70
Dear TherealUT and MG1968:

It has been a pleasure debating you. I feel like I learned I few things, and I hope you both did as well.

Good day.
Sincerely,

Caedmonvol
 
#72
#72
the blind support for Obama of no experience and clear pacifist mindset but bashing of Palin, the VP candidate, really makes Caedmon appear objective and brilliant.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#73
#73
Back to the original thread. You betcha, CoedMom, Sarah could get in UT. As a matter of fact Pat Head gives her a basketball scholarship. She was a heck of a basketball player!!!!
 
#74
#74
CaedmonVol said:
By the way, with respect to the Ayers reference, he is much more well known for work in education reform, and lots of politicians have worked with him, from both parties. Whether you want to call him a terrorist is up to you -- but Obama has only a passing connection to him.
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:blink:

holy crap
 
#75
#75
volinbham said:
:blink:

holy crap
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There's no crap holy enough to express the proper level of dismay at someone attempting to argue that Bill Ayers is more famous for his education reforms than the Weather Underground bombing the Pentagon.
 
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