Pass defense. Talent, coaching or both?

#51
#51
hog88 said:
You make changes AFTER signing day. There’s no hurry in replacing a DB coach or DC, don’t risk some of the class acting in haste.
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nope. do it now. then you can sell new to recruits. right now, some recruits dont want to be a part because there is unsurity of the dc and db coach. recruits read too so why take the chance on or before signing day? u want them locked in when in reality they will decommit or not show up. signing day is just a day.
 
#53
#53
I think it’s the Jimmies and Joes and Martinez. I’m on the fence about Banks but maybe he’s a secondary coach away from fielding a decent defense.
I just don’t know how much better we’re gonna get for a DC. Our offensive time of possession is 129th (out of 131) meaning the defense’s time on the field is 3rd in the nation. A better defense can change that number but with this quick strike offense, they’re still gonna be out there a lot. That’s not the most appealing for a big time proven DC.
 
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#55
#55
Allvols1996 said:
I spent some time looking through our roster and the current players who are available in our secondary. The problems in this group are obvious to anyone watching. The Vols rank 130 out of 131 teams in pass defense, giving up 303 yards passing per game.

The big question is to what degree does UT’s secondary problem fall on the coaches versus the players? It’s hard to know for sure, but looking through the recruiting profiles of those who signed out of high school, as well as the transfers, they should be getting better performance than the stats portray.

Another question is why other players aren’t seeing the field. Andre Turrentine seemed like a name that was sure to see action. He played a bit early in the year, but has seen little more than sparse mop up duty since. Dee Williams has shown his worth as a shifty and sure-handed punt returner, immediately elevating that position. At CB it’s been a completely different story. Williams has been virtually non existent even in mop up duty.

The bottom line is while there is no clear superstar at DB, the roster has a number of highly recruited and ranked players, that with proper development, should provide decent play in the secondary. Still, this unit performs poorly in all areas, from coverage to tackling.

There is no question the staff needs to upgrade the talent, but what we are seeing goes far beyond skill. These players are poorly coached and lost in this defensive system.

Recruiting rankings are never a guarantee, but teams can typically count on a fair percentage of players living up to their star ranking. With proper coaching and development you’ll have the occasional player who exceeds their ranking, and UT has certainly had its share of those over the years. With this roster, you’d have to believe that there are 6-8 players who were complete busts and somehow, magically, all ended up on the same roster. I’m not buying it.

In the final evaluation, Heupel’s offense doesn’t need a top 20 defense to succeed. I don’t think anyone expected that from this staff by year two. Unfortunately, things appear to be heading in the wrong direction on that side of the ball, and UT will be lucky to finish in the top 100 in total defense.

I’d say a defense anywhere in the top 60 would provide enough support to keep the Vols consistently ahead of the sticks against 90% of the league. With the resources at UT that is an easily obtainable goal.

Just a few seasons ago we believed that averaging 35 points per game was out of reach. With an innovative system and quality development, the Vols shattered that ceiling becoming the most potent offense in the nation. It seems unreasonable that the offensive roster could have so many players exceed their ceiling while the defense has had so few.

Conclusion: There are enough pieces in the secondary to perform better than what the stats reveal. Heupel needs to make staff changes on the defensive side of the ball, and find a coach that can better evaluate talent, develop the roster, and teach the game.
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Good reason I don't make the big $s , I'm dumbfounded at the # of DBs on the rooster and how heisman like we make opposing Qbs appear.
I'm not a fan of revolving door coaches BUT something has to change. 2 years is enough time to coach up the 3 and 4 star DBs to get better results.
Adding corners or safeties from the portal isn't going to help without better coaching.
 
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#56
#56
I'm still willing to give Banks a pass. Defense looks ok, aside from Secondary. He needs the pieces to get a full evaluation.

However, Willie Martinez has proven he is not a P5 level coach and needs to go. He is as bad at coaching DBs as Bob is at calling the game.
 
#58
#58
For us to be almost the absolute WORST in all of CFB (130 of 131), there is no question that you have to suck both at talent AND at coaching. There is no other explanation. Every other team has issues too but clearly we are worse than all but one of them.

Could it be that the coaching is pretty good but the talent sucks SO BADLY that it drags down the score?
Could it be that the talent is just ok but the coaching sucks SO BADLY that it drags down the score?

Answer - NO. To be the worst in all CFB, it has to be that on BOTH coaching and talent, we absolutely SUCK.

So what are we going to do about it?
 
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#59
#59
I believe this incoming class is heavy on the D side so it appears Hyp at least recognizes the issues. Which leaves the debate of whether we have the coaches to improve them. No question Garner can coach up the D line guys. The rest???
 
#60
#60
fossilfiction said:
Are you serious? Georgia State, Vanderbilt, Wyoming, and Memphis region supreme, and you think losing to an 8-win USC team is the worst? Come-on man, use blue.
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SC will definitely go up there because what was at stake. Same reason I still lament LSU in 2001. I don’t sit around rehashing the Georgia State game or Wyoming. Memphis Illl give you. Still, trying to downplay this game is just wrong.
 
#61
#61
Look no further than what Aaron Henry has done at Illinois. If we make a change, his name needs to be at or near the top of the list.
 
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#62
#62
shakearag said:
Our entire secondary sucks. They are slow, can't tackle, and can't cover. Their coaching is subpar and has been. Martinez is below average and our defensive coordinator is lost in space. The SC loss was the greatest embarrassment that UT has ever experienced. Need to replace both of these coaches.
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Wyoming, Rutgers, and GA State disagree about the most embarrassing part.
 
#63
#63
Allvols1996 said:
SC will definitely go up there because what was at stake. Same reason I still lament LSU in 2001. I don’t sit around rehashing the Georgia State game or Wyoming. Memphis Illl give you. Still, trying to downplay this game is just wrong.
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So Carolina in 96 was equally as bad
 
#64
#64
Our defense was better than top 60. It was actually 20th in points allowed per play
 
#66
#66
hog88 said:
It’s both but mainly it’s coaching. Our talent level at linebacker and the secondary isn’t 130 out of 131, Coaches Banks and Martinez are just awful.
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I do think our pass defense will always be low ranked with an offense like this. If we score a lot teams are gonna have to abandon the run and become more one dimensional. I think we should definitely go for turnovers and maybe be like 70 in pass defense.
 
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#69
#69
spacificislander said:
I do think our pass defense will always be low ranked with an offense like this. If we score a lot teams are gonna have to abandon the run and become more one dimensional. I think we should definitely go for turnovers and maybe be like 70 in pass defense.
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Exactly! We're going to give up big passing yards with our style of play. We're never going to have a top-rated pass defense, and it's ok.
 
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#70
#70
SycloneJoe said:
Exactly! We're going to give up big passing yards with our style of play. We're never going to have a top-rated pass defense, and it's ok.
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I truly don't want ti be argumentive or discount your position. I do however respectfully disagree. 3rd down defense was often times non existent, particularly vs SC. Forcing a punt on our opponents 1st thru 4th possessions should not be the impossible dream.
 
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#71
#71
swampfoxfan said:
I truly don't want ti be argumentive or discount your position. I do however respectfully disagree. 3rd down defense was often times non existent, particularly vs SC. Forcing a punt on our opponents 1st thru 4th possessions should not be the impossible dream.
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We are #28 in 3rd down defense this year which is darn good. Last year we were #103.
 
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#72
#72
volmanNC said:
There is for sure MORE than just a talent problem. Now a lot of talent might hide the other issues, but there are other issues.

I am just not sure if it is the coaching, the play calling. or all the above.

This came to head in the USCe game, but it had been showing almost all year and even last year also! (and that was with Taylor)

Remember last year's bowl game?
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I was there. Purdue literally picked on one Corner the entire game and I began to feel bad for him. He couldn’t help it.
 
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