Pat Summitt: the second greatest coach in women's hoops history

[carolinaviking]

How is the women's game better? Argument could be made the sport was better in the late 90s early 2000s. UCONN is dominating a sport that needs parity to be interesting.

See that is the thing. I see more parity today than I saw in the 80s and 90s. Back then it was UT and then a wiiiiiide gap between them and the rest of the field. Today UConn dominates but I think the gap is closing fast. And there are many teams capable of competing at a higher level than Tennessee.

But in the late 90s and early 2000s it was the UT-UConn rivalry that made it all so fun. And it helped increase parity in the game.

 

[OrangeByBirth]

If Pat Summit had not pushed women's basketball to a new level, Geno would be playing Al Bundy and selling women's shoes in a mall somewhere.

 

[Daddy Gee]

Geno would be styling women's hair imo.

 

[Sandvol]

It is rather ridiculous to think that Tennessee, or any program, could dominate the women's game forever the way Summitt's teams did during her prime. But we have to acknowledge that UConn has had a far more successful run the past 20 years than UT ever did and it shows no signs of slowing down. This is even more impressive when one considers that Summitt dominated when the women's game was underfunded and quality teams were very rare. Auriemma is dominating the game when it is filled with talented players and teams. What's more, UConn is not the only team to outshine UT the past decade or so. We are not even a distant third when one considers the likes of ND, SC, Baylor and Duke. Hell, UT is not even the best in their conference and hasn't been for a while.

My point is that we should still be proud of the Lady Vols because they are a top-25 team and usually a top-10 team. Most teams still fear us and a win over the Vols is a signpost for opposing programs. But deep tourney runs are not to be expected any longer and we should stop comparing the current team's success to the success of past UT teams, especially those from the Summitt era. Instead, we need to focus on comparing our team to our next opponent and just take care of business.

So let's be proud of our history and give Coach Summitt her dues. Her place in the pantheon of women's basketball is secured, although when the dust settles, she will not be viewed as the best ever; she will be viewed as the groundbreaker without whom none of what we see today would have been possible.

Luigi's pretty classless. You have to hand it to him for seeking Pat and wanting to play the Lady Vols because you have to play the best to be the best. But, he used Pat and utilized bush league recruiting tactics against her and was very disrespectful after all she did for him. I think he's a pretty disgusting human being. But, a great coach.

 

[Bellevue vol]

Luigi's pretty classless. You have to hand it to him for seeking Pat and wanting to play the Lady Vols because you have to play the best to be the best. But, he used Pat and utilized bush league recruiting tactics against her and was very disrespectful after all she did for him. I think he's a pretty disgusting human being. But, a great coach.

Just curious, if the Vols could get any coach right now, who would you pick? Geno? Muffet? Holly? Some up and comer? None of the above?

 

[Franklin Pierce]

What a silly useless post.

What a Silly and Useless post!

 

[chuck0303]

It is rather ridiculous to think that Tennessee, or any program, could dominate the women's game forever the way Summitt's teams did during her prime. But we have to acknowledge that UConn has had a far more successful run the past 20 years than UT ever did and it shows no signs of slowing down. This is even more impressive when one considers that Summitt dominated when the women's game was underfunded and quality teams were very rare. Auriemma is dominating the game when it is filled with talented players and teams. What's more, UConn is not the only team to outshine UT the past decade or so. We are not even a distant third when one considers the likes of ND, SC, Baylor and Duke. Hell, UT is not even the best in their conference and hasn't been for a while.

My point is that we should still be proud of the Lady Vols because they are a top-25 team and usually a top-10 team. Most teams still fear us and a win over the Vols is a signpost for opposing programs. But deep tourney runs are not to be expected any longer and we should stop comparing the current team's success to the success of past UT teams, especially those from the Summitt era. Instead, we need to focus on comparing our team to our next opponent and just take care of business.

So let's be proud of our history and give Coach Summitt her dues. Her place in the pantheon of women's basketball is secured, although when the dust settles, she will not be viewed as the best ever; she will be viewed as the groundbreaker without whom none of what we see today would have been possible.

We shouldn't be satisfied with mediocrity, because that's where we're going--to the bottom unless someone stops the bleeding. Loyalty is one thing but in this day of "winning is everything" and translates to big dollars you can't just keep someone on that isn't producing the results the job calls for. Hart needs to put on his big boy pants and hire a great head coach for the Lady Vols. Do NOT wait as long as they did to fire Fulmer; it's only going to get worse. I watched the VOL-TX game and the Lady Vols played terrible I thought; where was the D? I can't watch any more pitiful performances like that.:cray:

 

[chuck0303]

All what you said is true for the most part, there is no excuse for doing nothing while a program is in decline. Elite programs, if that is what the Lady Vols want to be, are not satisfied with just being one of 25 teams, they constantly work to be the best.

If you seriously watch Genno in a game, he is not just satisfied with a 25 point win. You can see him in players' faces and chiding them for their mistakes. If you listen to his interviews he is always saying what the team is not doing and how they can do better. If you listen to his players, former and present, he was/is constantly on their ass to do better. People might say why isn't he satisfied, he has the best women's basketball team in the history of the game? The answer is he is seeking perfection. That is how you stay on top of the game and not just being satisfied because you are one of 25. If you want to beat Genno you have to constantly strive to be better than Genno. One day a team will beat Genno and they will reign supreme, history tells us that will happen eventually, but again it will not be a coach who is satisfied with being second best or one of 25. Now ask yourself, when Pat was at the top of the heap do you think she was just satisfied?

That's all true. We will never get there with the current head coach IMO. Holly looks more like a spectator than a coach; she sees, watches, but does nothing to inspire or make changes that I can see. By the same token how can you expect the team to have a great D if they haven't been taught. I see no indication they have been taught.

 

[skoalbeans]

Valid points, but let's take some things into perspective. Records are meant to be broken. Coach Summitt will always be the John Wooden of women's hoops, period. Now, has UCONNS run been more impressive? Yes. That being said, before geno, who knew Connecticut even had a university? He is their Summitt. And took what coach Summitt had created and amplified it into a new era. The game changes as do the athletes. When geno steps away, will uconn continue to dominate or will they be elite 8 material for a while? When pitino left ky, did the cats drop off for a while? Yes. Now they have calimari. When the bear stepped away, did bama drop off? Yes. Stallings had some success, then comes saban. Point is, tennessee is one of THE premier lady hoops programs in the country. It will never be obsolete. And eventually, the right coach (maybe Holly) will make it the most dominate force in the game again. These things happen in every sport. One day, uconn fans will be discussing whether or not a coach from another program is having a better run then geno has. We're still tn. We will always get top tier players regardless of who the coach is. Be patient and know it comes and goes. It will be back. We will be dominate again. GBO!!!

 

[Sandvol]

Just curious, if the Vols could get any coach right now, who would you pick? Geno? Muffet? Holly? Some up and comer? None of the above?

Brenda Frese.

 

[reno tony]

Why on earth would any decent coach from a good program come to TENN? Because they use to be an excellent program a decade ago? Find some mid level program and lure the coach away from their team.

 

[Volfan2012]

Why on earth would any decent coach from a good program come to TENN? Because they use to be an excellent program a decade ago? Find some mid level program and lure the coach away from their team.

Why because we have far better attendance than UConn even when they are winning like they are. We have a great tradition in more than one sport and with the right coach the fan support would rise to even greater levels. I can't think of why any coach would not want to be at Tennessee with facilities second to none and an arena second to none. Plus you have seven McDonald's All Americans ready to be coached who wouldn't want all this. Sometimes people make dumb statements and this one is high upon the list.

 

[Voldon18]

Pat is the OG, the pioneer, the driving force of women's basketball from its early stages. Without her, Geno is selling used cars or Maya Moore's mother's handbags alongside the road somewhere.

Pat has won numerous off-the-court awards, including the nation's greatest civilian accolade, the Medal of Freedom. She has inspired countless young ladies to play basketball and to follow her footsteps into coaching.

But maybe Pat's greatest legacy, other than raising a wonderful young man in Tyler, is the fact that every young woman who played four years at Tennesse left with a degree. Geno can't match these honors, and his legacy includes dark clouds full of sketchy recruiting tactics, rule skirting and obnoxious behavior toward his rivals (not just Pat).

Fan attendance is another gauge of influence. Under Pat's leadership Tennessee was always first (except 1994 when Ohio State barely eclipsed the LVs) in tickets sold and seats filled. Even now under Holly the LV attendance was second only to South Carolina last season, and we're dealing with a program struggling with the reality of the greatest figure in the sport's history being struck with a horrible disease.

Don't come on this board claiming anything but the fact that Pat Summit belongs alone at the top of the mountain where the history of Women's College Basketball is concerned.

Can you imagine Geno having to play in a dinky Alumini Gymnasium, washing uniforms and driving the bus to away games? Not! Too much prima donna in that man, for sure.

And don't think for one second UConn won't have a drop-off when Geno retires. It happens.

 

[gule]

Geno didn't live at the top when he began either, he built UConn from the bottom, just as Pat did Tn. I don't see a shred of prima donna in Geno.I do see a lot of Attila the Hun!

 

[Voldon18]

Geno leaned on the rivalry with Pat to build his program. That's my point. Pat was the OG and the pioneer, not Geno. Poll every current coach and see who had the bigger influence, Pat or Geno. The results will be astoundingly in Pat's favor.

 

[gule]

take those orange glasses off.

We have to live in the present, not history. And Holly is NOT doing a good job in any facet. Coaching, recruiting, growing the program.

 

[reno tony]

Why because we have far better attendance than UConn even when they are winning like they are. We have a great tradition in more than one sport and with the right coach the fan support would rise to even greater levels. I can't think of why any coach would not want to be at Tennessee with facilities second to none and an arena second to none. Plus you have seven McDonald's All Americans ready to be coached who wouldn't want all this. Sometimes people make dumb statements and this one is high upon the list.

If everything I read here is true, you have an A.D. that does not support WBB like in Pat's days. And you missed the point of my question. Someone already at a successful program would not come here. Your reasons are valid for a good mid major coach or maybe a good assistant coach somewhere, but nothing more. Forget about Frese, Walz, Foster, Bruno and those types of coaches. Start focusing on the next level coaches that do a lot with a little. Jose Fernandez at USF comes to mind, but he just signed a big contract. He is the type of coach TENN needs. And I hope they pick up an excellent coach if Holly doesn't work out. It is sad to see a program with such a history struggle like they are now with all the talent they have
.

 

[Sandvol]

If everything I read here is true, you have an A.D. that does not support WBB like in Pat's days. And you missed the point of my question. Someone already at a successful program would not come here. Your reasons are valid for a good mid major coach or maybe a good assistant coach somewhere, but nothing more. Forget about Frese, Walz, Foster, Bruno and those types of coaches. Start focusing on the next level coaches that do a lot with a little. Jose Fernandez at USF comes to mind, but he just signed a big contract. He is the type of coach TENN needs. And I hope they pick up an excellent coach if Holly doesn't work out. It is sad to see a program with such a history struggle like they are now with all the talent they have
.

Valid points. I don't see anything changing under Hart. Look at Alabama's women's program.

 

[Sandvol]

Hiring Hart was the worst thing the BOT could have done for women's sports.

 

[Volfan2012]

If everything I read here is true, you have an A.D. that does not support WBB like in Pat's days. And you missed the point of my question. Someone already at a successful program would not come here. Your reasons are valid for a good mid major coach or maybe a good assistant coach somewhere, but nothing more. Forget about Frese, Walz, Foster, Bruno and those types of coaches. Start focusing on the next level coaches that do a lot with a little. Jose Fernandez at USF comes to mind, but he just signed a big contract. He is the type of coach TENN needs. And I hope they pick up an excellent coach if Holly doesn't work out. It is sad to see a program with such a history struggle like they are now with all the talent they have
.

The point you have is he want fire Holly and that is the only one. Because if he did there would be enormous pressure on him to hire a top name coach. The money is available to do so but like I said he will drag on with Holly as long as she can get to the NCAA and win a couple of games. If she fails to make the NCAA then he may have to react. It may happen this season that she don't make it. You can't win scoring in the 50's you have to be better on offense than the team is showing.
Were on the verge of a huge reemergence in football and he gets all the credit for hiring Butch and making it happen. So that has really calmed a lot of nerves at UT because regardless of past Lady Vol success the University is football first and even second and third. So Holly will get at least a couple more seasons unless she misses the NCAA.

 

[Sandvol]

The point you have is he want fire Holly and that is the only one. Because if he did there would be enormous pressure on him to hire a top name coach. The money is available to do so but like I said he will drag on with Holly as long as she can get to the NCAA and win a couple of games. If she fails to make the NCAA then he may have to react. It may happen this season that she don't make it. You can't win scoring in the 50's you have to be better on offense than the team is showing.
Were on the verge of a huge reemergence in football and he gets all the credit for hiring Butch and making it happen. So that has really calmed a lot of nerves at UT because regardless of past Lady Vol success the University is football first and even second and third. So Holly will get at least a couple more seasons unless she misses the NCAA.

That might be a big if this year.

 

[brassie]

Why because we have far better attendance than UConn even when they are winning like they are. We have a great tradition in more than one sport and with the right coach the fan support would rise to even greater levels. I can't think of why any coach would not want to be at Tennessee with facilities second to none and an arena second to none. Plus you have seven McDonald's All Americans ready to be coached who wouldn't want all this. Sometimes people make dumb statements and this one is high upon the list.

Not exactly factual. UT average home attendance this year is 9599. Far below their average at TBA which incidentally holds more than 21K. UConn home attendance is 9550. UConn has played in 3 different home venues with an average seating capacity of around 13K. So it appears that UT is playing home games at less than 50% capacity while UConn is playing at about 75% capacity.

UT has always been the gold standard in attendance but that is rapidly changing. Average home game attendance in CPS' last year was more than 14K. Last year it was less than 11K and UT fell behind USC as the leader in attendance. I think that those fans who have posted concerns about a fall off of attendance numbers (meaning money and interest) have a reason to be concerned.

 

[brassie]

Can you imagine Geno having to play in a dinky Alumini Gymnasium, washing uniforms and driving the bus to away games? Not! Too much prima donna in that man, for sure.

Obviously written by a person that had never attended a game at the UConn field house.

 

[Volfan2012]

Not exactly factual. UT average home attendance this year is 9599. Far below their average at TBA which incidentally holds more than 21K. UConn home attendance is 9550. UConn has played in 3 different home venues with an average seating capacity of around 13K. So it appears that UT is playing home games at less than 50% capacity while UConn is playing at about 75% capacity.

UT has always been the gold standard in attendance but that is rapidly changing. Average home game attendance in CPS' last year was more than 14K. Last year it was less than 11K and UT fell behind USC as the leader in attendance. I think that those fans who have posted concerns about a fall off of attendance numbers (meaning money and interest) have a reason to be concerned.

Before the season is over we'll be at 11000 a game and again beat UConn in attendance. We came in second last season behind SC because one point you make is Holly is running the fans off with the team she is putting on the floor. The point being even with their outstanding record UConn attendance is still not the best and UT still wins over them every year in attendance. Holly can definitely change that and is on her way to doing so but it hasn't happened yet so regardless of what you say what I said about beating UConn in attendance is totally factual and it has been going on for two decades.

 

[brassie]

Before the season is over we'll be at 11000 a game and again beat UConn in attendance. We came in second last season behind SC because one point you make is Holly is running the fans off with the team she is putting on the floor. The point being even with their outstanding record UConn attendance is still not the best and UT still wins over them every year in attendance. Holly can definitely change that and is on her way to doing so but it hasn't happened yet so regardless of what you say what I said about beating UConn in attendance is totally factual and it has been going on for two decades.

I don't doubt that UT's attendance will be larger than UConn's by the end of the year. That's as much a factor of arena size and cheap seats as anything else. The real point is that UT's attendance numbers are almost in free fall. Home attendance has dropped roughly 40% in the last 10 years, 30% just since Coach Summitt retired.

Other than revenue, I'm not sure that "winning
attendance" means anything.