Paying college athletes

[Rockytoptalker]

The only fair and equitable solution for the football players is some type of increased stipend. Nothing will be doable apart from a controlled and closely monitored increase in spending money. Otherwise the leeches, sharks, roaches will simply smother the sport.

Given the sobering stat that only 2% of college seniors make it to the NFL with various degrees of financial success, all these visions of grandeur that players and fans have for the promise land is ridiculous. For all you high school seniors thinking on the NFL if you do the math your percentage of making it is about 0.09%. That's the kind of numbers that would have me studying a lot harder for that degree.

I agree with all of this. The idea of actually paying athletes with a weekly/monthly paycheck will open the floodgates. I'll add that they should be able to gain compensation for the use of their likeness.

 

[Caleb59seal]

Honestly, apart from the way players would get paid it is the amount of money that changes hands with these players. The only thing that scares me is the type of people that will come across these players and the amount of issues that creates for a 20 year d kid. Then you are negotiating contracts inside or outside of the actual games played (likeness etc.) I just think this process needs to be very well thought out before it's in place and the NCAA isn't exactly known for that.

 

[thehill98]

Honestly, apart from the way players would get paid it is the amount of money that changes hands with these players. The only thing that scares me is the type of people that will come across these players and the amount of issues that creates for a 20 year d kid. Then you are negotiating contracts inside or outside of the actual games played (likeness etc.) I just think this process needs to be very well thought out before it's in place and the NCAA isn't exactly known for that.

I agree. I understand the sentiment of how much they’re bringing in to their schools. But they’re getting compensated upwards of 100k a year depending on the school. I think they should get good stipends to help with other expenses. However anything else opens up the floodgates for all kinds of other problems, which I think in the long run would be a lot worse than we have now. Either that or it would still be so regulated that it wouldn’t be much different than what we currently have.

 

[05_never_again]

Here is my beef. The UTAD generated 145.7 million dollars last year and scholarships were listed as a 14 million dollar expense. Works out to a little over 10% of the revenue.

I've been watching this for sometime, it looks like the goal is to keep scholarships at around 10% of the budget.

That's a pretty small slice of the pie imo.

Title IX became law in 1972, 12 years before the Supreme Court would end the NCAA's hold on controlling the televising of football and handing it over to the schools/conferences. Even in 1984, I doubt anyone would imagine the kind of revenue that is now being made.

The whole system is out of date. For roughly 2 or 3 % more of the revenues, you could give every athlete on campus a full ride and do away with silly partials driven by Title IX.

The whole thing is a bit ridiculous. But hey, if you gotta pay 3 athletic directors at a time...:loco:

There are very few athletic departments that are in the financial position Tennessee is. There are a lot of "big name" schools that couldn't afford to pay kids. If you created a model where players are paid by the schools, a lot of them get left in the dust. They'll never be for it.

The irony with paying players is that the people screaming that athletes should be paid will be the first to complain if/when they are paid.

 

[n_huffhines]

There are very few athletic departments that are in the financial position Tennessee is. There are a lot of "big name" schools that couldn't afford to pay kids. If you created a model where players are paid by the schools, a lot of them get left in the dust. They'll never be for it.

The irony with paying players is that the people screaming that athletes should be paid will be the first to complain if/when they are paid.

I don't follow. What will I be complaining about then?

If you can't afford to pay kids, you don't belong on the same field as Tennessee. Thems the breaks. We should have an elite college football league. We have no business playing 4-6 garbage opponents per season. How fun would it be to actually have the best players play each other every week?

 

[05_never_again]

I don't follow. What will I be complaining about then?

If you can't afford to pay kids, you don't belong on the same field as Tennessee. Thems the breaks. We should have an elite college football league. We have no business playing 4-6 garbage opponents per season. How fun would it be to actually have the best players play each other every week?

I should clarify. I mean screaming about them getting paid from a "social justice" perspective, which based on your posts on a variety of topics I don't think you're doing.

A lot of people from the "college athletes should be paid" crowd want all of them to be paid, even the ones in the non-revenue producing sports, and they want them to be all paid more or less the same because they are still in college, aren't professionals (yet), and it should be "fair."

So the moment the star QB gets cut a check, they'll want the runner from the women's cross country team to get the same check. There'd be specious attempts to make it a Title IX issue, a gender discrimination issue, etc. Bad PR.

About the only way you could do it that most people might agree to is to allow all college athletes to sell their likeness.

 

[n_huffhines]

I should clarify. I mean screaming about them getting paid from a "social justice" perspective, which based on your posts on a variety of topics I don't think you're doing.

But I agree with them. It's absurd that the NCAA should be able to collude to deny people market value compensation.

A lot of people from the "college athletes should be paid" crowd want all of them to be paid, even the ones in the non-revenue producing sports, and they want them to be all paid more or less the same because they are still in college, aren't professionals (yet), and it should be "fair."

Those people are idiots. :good!:

So the moment the star QB gets cut a check, they'll want the runner from the women's cross country team to get the same check. There'd be specious attempts to make it a Title IX issue, a gender discrimination issue, etc. Bad PR.

Except that's not really what happens in the rest of the paid sporting world. WNBA makes way less than the NBA and you don't hear a peep. Same goes for low-revenue sports vs. high revenue. People generally understand how it works (generate revenue = get paid). The only example where I've actually heard this debated is with USWNT in soccer, who generates quite a bit of revenue, so we should be having that discussion.

 

[vol66]

There are very few athletic departments that are in the financial position Tennessee is. There are a lot of "big name" schools that couldn't afford to pay kids. If you created a model where players are paid by the schools, a lot of them get left in the dust. They'll never be for it.

The irony with paying players is that the people screaming that athletes should be paid will be the first to complain if/when they are paid.

I wasn't arguing for paying players per se...I'm saying at a place like Tennessee, Texas, Bama, etc...they might deserve a little more of the pie. Whether it's the living situation, food situation, academic support, health care...

As I said, my beef is that only 10% of the pie, if you include academic support, trainers etc, maybe 15% goes to the guys and gals we pay to see. What other business works that way?

 

[05_never_again]

But I agree with them. It's absurd that the NCAA should be able to collude to deny people market value compensation.



Those people are idiots. :good!:



Except that's not really what happens in the rest of the paid sporting world. WNBA makes way less than the NBA and you don't hear a peep. Same goes for low-revenue sports vs. high revenue. People generally understand how it works (generate revenue = get paid). The only example where I've actually heard this debated is with USWNT in soccer, who generates quite a bit of revenue, so we should be having that discussion.

I agree those people are idiots. But they make up a decent chunk of the "let's pay college players" community.

I don't think you hear a peep about WNBA pay versus NBA pay because the WNBA is a professional league.

As much as people want to liken college football and basketball to a quasi-professional league, which it is, there still is this notion that something should be "fair" about it since they are technically amateurs. I'm not saying that's a good argument, BTW (is it "fair" that Alabama has great facilities and North Texas doesn't)?

 

[n_huffhines]

I agree those people are idiots. But they make up a decent chunk of the "let's pay college players" community.

I don't think you hear a peep about WNBA pay versus NBA pay because the WNBA is a professional league.

As much as people want to liken college football and basketball to a quasi-professional league, which it is, there still is this notion that something should be "fair" about it since they are technically amateurs. I'm not saying that's a good argument, BTW (is it "fair" that Alabama has great facilities and North Texas doesn't)?

Exactly. The same would be true for a hypothetical elite CFB league.

The notion of fairness is unfortunately just an ideological fantasy. What's fair about Bama playing an FCS school, a mid-major, or even Vandy? What's fair about Bama hoarding all the best players? What's fair about UCF not getting a shot at the title? They belong in their own amateur league, playing for a national title with teams like Georgia, Bama, Clemson, and OU in their own league.

 

[Caleb59seal]

I wonder how much is budgeted for paying the players already....

 

[HooahVol]

Just to add. My daughter had violin lessons this past Sunday down at the Natalie L Haslam Music center. One of the students who is on full scholarship gave the lesson and I paid him. That was fine, no rules broken. What if I had a son and I wanted to pay a football player this summer to give him pointers? I would imagine the NCAA would lose their mind. It just seems like a double standard.

 

[05_never_again]

Just to add. My daughter had violin lessons this past Sunday down at the Natalie L Haslam Music center. One of the students who is on full scholarship gave the lesson and I paid him. That was fine, no rules broken. What if I had a son and I wanted to pay a football player this summer to give him pointers? I would imagine the NCAA would lose their mind. It just seems like a double standard.

Yes, that football player at the very least would be suspended for a number of games, if not ruled permanently ineligible. It's insane.

 

[Rockytoptalker]

Exactly. The same would be true for a hypothetical elite CFB league.

The notion of fairness is unfortunately just an ideological fantasy. What's fair about Bama playing an FCS school, a mid-major, or even Vandy? What's fair about Bama hoarding all the best players? What's fair about UCF not getting a shot at the title? They belong in their own amateur league, playing for a national title with teams like Georgia, Bama, Clemson, and OU in their own league.

Those are good points, but in regards to upper-tier teams playing FCS and mid-major programs, its fair because they get a massive amount of money to go and lose. Or sometimes even win.

 

[n_huffhines]

Those are good points, but in regards to upper-tier teams playing FCS and mid-major programs, its fair because they get a massive amount of money to go and lose. Or sometimes even win.

But we're talking about fair competition, not fair agreements.

You can still have that tune-up game, if you really want it. I just want a 10-game regular season with nothing but quality opponents.

 

[mitzustu]

Let’s use the media profession as an example.

“All you media members.... what if you were 18 years old and ESPN came to you and said "Hey you have a lot of potential. We are going to pay for your education as a journalist. But we aren't going to stop there. We are going to give you access to the best studios and equipment in the world. We are going to let you intern under the best in the business, shadow their every move etc. Would you look at ESPN and say, "I'm entitled to your profit".... no that's stupid and college players shouldn't say it to the NCAA

Transfer this to any profession. The access they have to nutritionist, trainers, PT, world class facilities, top flight instruction, etc is worth its weight in gold. And they are not nfl ready out of HS. I’m tired of entitlement

 

[HooahVol]

Let’s use the media profession as an example.

“All you media members.... what if you were 18 years old and ESPN came to you and said "Hey you have a lot of potential. We are going to pay for your education as a journalist. But we aren't going to stop there. We are going to give you access to the best studios and equipment in the world. We are going to let you intern under the best in the business, shadow their every move etc. Would you look at ESPN and say, "I'm entitled to your profit".... no that's stupid and college players shouldn't say it to the NCAA

Transfer this to any profession. The access they have to nutritionist, trainers, PT, world class facilities, top flight instruction, etc is worth its weight in gold. And they are not nfl ready out of HS. I’m tired of entitlement

That is a good point.

 

[n_huffhines]

Let’s use the media profession as an example.

“All you media members.... what if you were 18 years old and ESPN came to you and said "Hey you have a lot of potential. We are going to pay for your education as a journalist. But we aren't going to stop there. We are going to give you access to the best studios and equipment in the world. We are going to let you intern under the best in the business, shadow their every move etc. Would you look at ESPN and say, "I'm entitled to your profit".... no that's stupid and college players shouldn't say it to the NCAA

Transfer this to any profession. The access they have to nutritionist, trainers, PT, world class facilities, top flight instruction, etc is worth its weight in gold. And they are not nfl ready out of HS. I’m tired of entitlement

The difference is this is one of many ways to pursue a career in broadcast journalism.

There is basically only one way to the NFL. There are basically only two ways to the NBA, and one of them entails leaving the country.

ESPN does not have a monopoly on experience that needs to be gained to become a professional. The NCAA does.

These are also mostly state-owned schools and ESPN is a private corporation.

 

[mitzustu]

The difference is this is one of many ways to pursue a career in broadcast journalism.

There is basically only one way to the NFL. There are basically only two ways to the NBA, and one of them entails leaving the country.

ESPN does not have a monopoly on experience that needs to be gained to become a professional. The NCAA does.

These are also mostly state-owned schools and ESPN is a private corporation.

There has to be a governing body to run an effective league. And it wouldn’t be college football if there were multiple ones.

Should we create a developmental league and enable guys to go and sign a contract ? I have no problem with that. But I bet you’d be amazed at the amount of guys that still would play college ball.

 

[n_huffhines]

There has to be a governing body to run an effective league. And it wouldn’t be college football if there were multiple ones.

Should we create a developmental league and enable guys to go and sign a contract ? I have no problem with that. But I bet you’d be amazed at the amount of guys that still would play college ball.

There are many, many governing bodies in the NCAA. Each conference has a governing body, and then you factor in FCS, DII, etc.

That's really beside the point. The point is that the NCAA has a monopoly and it relates to state-funded universities. I don't think we need to worry about ESPN's agreement with interns because they are a private corporation in a competitive market. The NCAA "interns" are "working" for state universities in a market with very little competition.

 

[mitzustu]

The example wasn’t to give a real life example. To my knowledge ESPN doesn’t do that. It was to point out that the added value that athletes receive is incredible compensation. And we would all take it if it were available to us in an equivalent manner in our professions. And we wouldn’t look at the company and say, “after all that you owe me!” It’s entitlement that college athletes do so. Go ahead and monetize the worth of the coaching, exposure, PT, nutritionists, S&C training, access to facilities, scholarship, etc. They are compensated more than enough.

 

[LouderVol]

There are many, many governing bodies in the NCAA. Each conference has a governing body, and then you factor in FCS, DII, etc.

That's really beside the point. The point is that the NCAA has a monopoly and it relates to state-funded universities. I don't think we need to worry about ESPN's agreement with interns because they are a private corporation in a competitive market. The NCAA "interns" are "working" for state universities in a market with very little competition.

what about the 17 private universities in the FBS?

again there is very little competition because the others already lost out. but when a Rugby player from Australia gets in, as well as about 20 others from TINY universities (depends on how you count what is TINY); it seems like there are other viable methods. its just the NCAA is the most effective.

btw did a bunch of posts get moved? I felt like this conservation was in another thread?

 

[05_never_again]

what about the 17 private universities in the FBS?

again there is very little competition because the others already lost out. but when a Rugby player from Australia gets in, as well as about 20 others from TINY universities (depends on how you count what is TINY); it seems like there are other viable methods. its just the NCAA is the most effective.

btw did a bunch of posts get moved? I felt like this conservation was in another thread?

They are still all part of the NCAA.

 

[LouderVol]

They are still all part of the NCAA.

but private corporations can do what they want? can they not? again if we are applying authoritarian principals to achieve capitalistic ends is it really capitalistic?

 

[05_never_again]

but private corporations can do what they want? can they not? again if we are applying authoritarian principals to achieve capitalistic ends is it really capitalistic?

Yes, but being in the NCAA is good for the schools.