Peeing on the enemy.

[7thgroupvolfan]

I havn't read the article, btw. The Marines did something stupid....shocker.

 

[NEO]

Quite disgusting. I'm torn between TRUT's opinion and thinking that we're better than that. Either way, scumbags.

Grandfather told me stories of both japanese and americans cutting the gold teeth out of dead soldiers and soldiers not dead yet to sell on the market.

war is hell.

never been in the military but i'm sure it's got to mess with you if you're in constant battle day after day after day.

 

[PKT_VOL]

It is deplorable. Men and women in uniform should be held to a higher standard in the US. TRUT if it were a family member that would still be your reaction? You honestly scare the crap out of me. I hope that you cannot honestly believe these things you say sometimes. I hope that when you die people will treat your body with more decency and respect than it sounds like you would treat theirs. Or at least argue for Men who treasure none of these things that moral individuals should and do. The should be NJPed or Court Martialled and given a proper punishment

No need to get upset. It is actually easily explainable.

You and TRUT have a fundamental philosophical difference on your perception of the human body, the human "soul", and the interaction between the two. Judging from your post, you probably think the two (body and soul) are either intimately connected or one in the same. TRUT, believes they are separate and distinct. The soul is the ONLY thing that matters. The body is nothing more than a machine to carry out the function of the soul/mind. Once the body is dead it is useless to the soul. More importantly, and relevant to this discussion, once the body is no longer viable, it is completely separated from the soul and should not act in any way to reflect upon the soul which once inhabited it.

For me at least, the "outrage" has nothing to do with the morality of the act. It has to do with someone who is a de facto representative of me acting like a complete idiot.

It's like walking down the middle of a street in Mumbai wearing a t-shirt with an American flag on the front and "Buddha is a fat bastard" on the back. Yeah, it's pretty much true and is not immoral, but anyone with a clue knows it's going to incite.

Totally agree with the first part of your post.

The second part is complete garbage. The Buddha was actually really skinny. To the point of almost dying at one point in his life from lack of food. The Buddhists would laugh at the ignorance of that person if they were to wear that shirt. I get what you are trying to say but it was a horrible example.

This. We've all seen Full Metal Jacket, we know what happens, but it still reflects poorly on the country.

Bill Maher had a good line last night about "Forcibly occupying Afghanistan for ten years is one thing, but taking a leak on a couple dead Al Qaeda is TOO FAR."

I love Bill Maher. He makes an excellent point.

 

[vol_in_ar]

What that b, il?

i would post it, but it would make peeing on a body, seem inconsequential

it was Iraqi, Republican Guard , not Afghan Taliban, and it was in the first gulf war

 

[Bill Braske]

I've whizzed in the Tigris and Euphrates...i guess that means me and ol Gen Patton have more in common than i thought. My cool points probably went up a few as well.

Agree with the one dude, give them an Art. 15 and press on. It was a pretty dumb thing to film it, and then have it posted on youtube. Not really seeing all the outrage though. Was unprofessional, but is not as big of a deal as people want it to be.

 

[The Ron Mexico]

I would like to see our them receive Article 15's. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

I don't have a problem with it. The more they kill and the more they piss on these low lifes the better. The Taliban routinely rape, kill innocent people, and are the type that bomb American buildings, etc.

I shudder to think what they would do to any one of us if given the opportunity.

Keep up the good work. It is soldiers like you that protect our freedom and enable us to sit here and debate about such actions.

God bless American and God bless those fine American soldiers pissing on s dead enemy.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzae_SqbmDE[/youtube]

 

[LibertyVol]

I love this country. I love these men. I love these men's honor and bravery.

Each one of these men would gladly lay down his life for each one of us.

And we sit here and criticize their actions over the dead bodies of an enemy that has bombed our home, murdered our loved ones and who would gladly do it again if given a chance.

It is sad that we have people in this country who continue to give aid and comfort to the ememy.

 

[Lexvol]

Was it great judgement? Probably not. Is it worth making an example of guys putting their lives on the line over some PC bs.....probably not.

 

[therealUT]

I love this country. I love these men. I love these men's honor and bravery.

Each one of these men would gladly lay down his life for each one of us.

And we sit here and criticize their actions over the dead bodies of an enemy that has bombed our home, murdered our loved ones and who would gladly do it again if given a chance.

It is sad that we have people in this country who continue to give aid and comfort to the ememy.

I understand you are trying to make some analogy to treason and sedition; yet, this is not the type of 'aid and comfort' that falls under those categories. Giving aid to the enemy is physically supplying said enemy with the resources he needs to kill (ammunition, food, etc.); giving comfort is providing physical shelter and security for a known enemy combatant during a conflict.

The provision you speak of is not as generalized as you would like it to be; very often we give aid to the enemy on the battlefield when the enemy has been wounded and we provide comfort to the enemy when the enemy is detained. That aid and comfort is vastly greater than anything anyone could write on a forum, a blog, in a newspaper article, etc.; so, is our entire military seditious and treasonous?

The bottom line is that you should take great pains not to call your fellow citizens as seditious and/or treasonous simply for voicing their thoughts and opinions. America was founded upon securing that right.

 

[KiffinKiller]

wish this didn't come out.

 

[LibertyVol]

I see your point. This is not treason by the strict definition of the word. But in my mind this is no different than what Hanoi Jane did during the Vietnam war (as an example). It is aiding the enemy's propaganda war thus reducing the fighting effectiveness of our soldiers in the field.

Free speech demands responsiblity. These people should be real careful in criticizing the military in a time of war, because it can aid the enemy. I do not believe that the people that want to put these men in jail think of it this way, but they are aiding the enemy in an indirect way.

The people who attack, malign, criticize American soldiers in the field for actions such as this, which in the grand scheme of things are trivial, have engaged in behavior far worse than what these men did.

I have no problem with making sure that prisoners, etc. are cared for in the proper way. I do not see this as directly reducing the fighting effectiveness of our service men.

 

[KiffinKiller]

They did something incredibly stupid - which the public found out about - and deserve to be punished for it...end of story.

 

[therealUT]

I see your point. This is not treason by the strict definition of the word. But in my mind this is no different than what Hanoi Jane did during the Vietnam war (as an example). It is aiding the enemy's propaganda war thus reducing the fighting effectiveness of our soldiers in the field.

You see no difference between this and turning over a letter received from a POW to the Vietcong which resulted in immediate disciplinary action for said POW?

Free speech demands responsiblity. These people should be real careful in criticizing the military in a time of war, because it can aid the enemy. I do not believe that the people that want to put these men in jail think of it this way, but they are aiding the enemy in an indirect way.

1. Times of war are exactly when the military should be criticized the most.

2. Can you explain exactly how this is aiding the enemy in any substantial way? The Taliban and al Qaeda already want to kill anyone who represents foreign interests (ironic, because both are foreign interests) in Afghanistan. Will this be used to help recruit? Maybe. Will it be used as much as telling a man that the West has destroyed his livelihood by destroying his poppy crop? Will it help as much as the Taliban telling a father that he can seek vengeance on the West for killing his sons while they collected firewood?

The people who attack, malign, criticize American soldiers in the field for actions such as this, which in the grand scheme of things are trivial, have engaged in behavior far worse than what these men did.

I agree that that urinating on a corpse is nothing more than stupid and juvenile. I also think it is inconsistent to endorse a policy that puts bullets in these guys heads and then to turn around and express outrage at any even like this. However, I think it is pretty ridiculous to make the blanket statement that you just made for the following two reasons:

1. You do not know the actions taken during the lifetimes of all the individuals who are criticizing this deed.

2. If something is immoral it should make no difference who comes out and condemns it as such.

I have no problem with making sure that prisoners, etc. are cared for in the proper way. I do not see this as directly reducing the fighting effectiveness of our service men.

But, you see outrage back in the States as directly reducing the fighting effectiveness of our service men? Please explain.

 

[KiffinKiller]

let's condone relieving ourselves on the deceased...but not exercising free speech? Makes sense to me.

 

[LibertyVol]

You see no difference between this and turning over a letter received from a POW to the Vietcong which resulted in immediate disciplinary action for said POW?

I was referring to her open opposition to American actions during the war which obviously was anti-American and siding with our enemies. Just as those who criticize trivial acts made be Americans are siding with known terrorists.



1. Times of war are exactly when the military should be criticized the most.

I did not say it was wrong to criticize the military. I said we should be careful. These guys did nothing wrong. Whose rights did they violate? They were already dead.

2. Can you explain exactly how this is aiding the enemy in any substantial way? The Taliban and al Qaeda already want to kill anyone who represents foreign interests (ironic, because both are foreign interests) in Afghanistan. Will this be used to help recruit? Maybe. Will it be used as much as telling a man that the West has destroyed his livelihood by destroying his poppy crop? Will it help as much as the Taliban telling a father that he can seek vengeance on the West for killing his sons while they collected firewood?

Hamas-tied CAIR once again sides with jihadists against the US military. Always. Apparently they are a "Muslim civil rights and advocacy organization" for jihadists in the Taliban, al-Shabaab, Hamas, Hezb'allah, et al).

Why don't you ask them?

I always feel comfortable taking the side of known terrorists when it comes to the behavior of our troops.


I agree that that urinating on a corpse is nothing more than stupid and juvenile. I also think it is inconsistent to endorse a policy that puts bullets in these guys heads and then to turn around and express outrage at any even like this. However, I think it is pretty ridiculous to make the blanket statement that you just made for the following two reasons:

1. You do not know the actions taken during the lifetimes of all the individuals who are criticizing this deed.

No, you are right I don't know their motivation. However, I do know they are obviously taking the side of CAIR and of terrorists. That is why you should be careful of criticizing the miliatry in a time of war.

2. If something is immoral it should make no difference who comes out and condemns it as such.

You are so right. I have never seen a more moral bunch than the Hamas Jhihadists or whatever they are called. They definitely have our best interests at heart. It is amazing to me how quickly some people take the side of our enemy without thinking.



But, you see outrage back in the States as directly reducing the fighting effectiveness of our service men? Please explain.

Again why don't you ask the terrorists who have obviously thought it makes a difference.

 

[therealUT]

I was referring to her open opposition to American actions during the war which obviously was anti-American and siding with our enemies. Just as those who criticize trivial acts made be Americans are siding with known terrorists.

Opposition to foreign wars fought for absolutely no reason is anything but anti-American. I would say that Eisenhower, Kennedy, and LBJ were far more un-American in the fact that they sent America's sons to fight in die in a jungle halfway around the world for absolutely nothing.

I did not say it was wrong to criticize the military. I said we should be careful. These guys did nothing wrong. Whose rights did they violate? They were already dead.

In my opinion, you are correct; these guys did nothing immoral. However, I also do not think that individuals should be careful when they criticize our military and our foreign policy. Criticisms should be aired openly and should be very pointed; maybe then our foreign policy decisions would change.

Hamas-tied CAIR once again sides with jihadists against the US military. Always. Apparently they are a "Muslim civil rights and advocacy organization" for jihadists in the Taliban, al-Shabaab, Hamas, Hezb'allah, et al).

Why don't you ask them?

No thanks. I could care less about CAIR; I want your opinion. Do you think that criticizing these actions provides more fodder for recruiting more insurgents than does destroying the poppy crop or killing kids collecting firewood?

I always feel comfortable taking the side of known terrorists when it comes to the behavior of our troops.

I am not sure what you are trying to get at with this remark. Please clarify.

No, you are right I don't know their motivation. However, I do know they are obviously taking the side of CAIR and of terrorists. That is why you should be careful of criticizing the miliatry in a time of war.

Criticizing the military does not mean that one is taking the side of anyone CAIR and/or the terrorists. Such a statement is both absurd and ignorant. I can look at something and be both skeptical and critical without having taking the side of the terrorists.

You are so right. I have never seen a more moral bunch than the Hamas Jhihadists or whatever they are called. They definitely have our best interests at heart. It is amazing to me how quickly some people take the side of our enemy without thinking.

Another ignorant and absurd statement on your part. Would you like to wholly restrict free speech and criticism? Or, just restrict it to the views that you agree with?

Jihadists do not have our best interests at heart. Here is the thing though, the war in Afghanistan is not in my best interest and I would love to see someone put together a convincing argument that it is in the best interest of America.

Again why don't you ask the terrorists who have obviously thought it makes a difference.

No. Why don't you actually provide your opinion.

 

[vol_in_ar]

I think TRUT has created an alter ego, to work on his philosphical points of view. he's found the normal posters that he spars with to be lacking the appropiate debating skills as he continues on his post graduate work

 

[therealUT]

I think TRUT has created an alter ego, to work on his philosphical points of view. he's found the normal posters that he spars with to be lacking the appropiate debating skills as he continues on his post graduate work

I wish this were true.

 

[KiffinKiller]

I don't understand how it is anti-American to criticize an absurd act by our military.

 

[gsvol]

I've whizzed in the Tigris and Euphrates...i guess that means me and ol Gen Patton have more in common than i thought. My cool points probably went up a few as well.

Agree with the one dude, give them an Art. 15 and press on. It was a pretty dumb thing to film it, and then have it posted on youtube. Not really seeing all the outrage though. Was unprofessional, but is not as big of a deal as people want it to be.

This probably had something to do with a recent order to not relieve one's self in the direction of Mecca, so as to not offend the locals.

 

[LibertyVol]

Opposition to foreign wars fought for absolutely no reason is anything but anti-American. I would say that Eisenhower, Kennedy, and LBJ were far more un-American in the fact that they sent America's sons to fight in die in a jungle halfway around the world for absolutely nothing.



In my opinion, you are correct; these guys did nothing immoral. However, I also do not think that individuals should be careful when they criticize our military and our foreign policy. Criticisms should be aired openly and should be very pointed; maybe then our foreign policy decisions would change.



No thanks. I could care less about CAIR; I want your opinion. Do you think that criticizing these actions provides more fodder for recruiting more insurgents than does destroying the poppy crop or killing kids collecting firewood?



I am not sure what you are trying to get at with this remark. Please clarify.



Criticizing the military does not mean that one is taking the side of anyone CAIR and/or the terrorists. Such a statement is both absurd and ignorant. I can look at something and be both skeptical and critical without having taking the side of the terrorists.



Another ignorant and absurd statement on your part. Would you like to wholly restrict free speech and criticism? Or, just restrict it to the views that you agree with?

Jihadists do not have our best interests at heart. Here is the thing though, the war in Afghanistan is not in my best interest and I would love to see someone put together a convincing argument that it is in the best interest of America.



No. Why don't you actually provide your opinion.

My point is that the terrorists are immoral. They could care less about how these dead people are treated. They obviously have felt that making this an issue has an effect on the situation in Afghanistan. I do not think it has the effect of creating greater opposition directly, but it can have an effect on the political will of the public and morale of our troups in fighting this war.

By criticizing these soldiers for insignificant actions, you have taken the same side as the terrorists and are supporting them. That might not be your intent, you may be doing it for a variety of reasons, but that is what you are doing.

What these guys did does not warrant the attention or press that it is receiving. It definitely does not merit criminal charges. That being said, please tell me what the real purpose of this is, if it is not to undermine American efforts in accomplishing its objectives.



Sounds like we would be on opposite sides on most issues, except for the team we root for.

 

[therealUT]

My point is that the terrorists are immoral. They could care less about how these dead people are treated. They obviously have felt that making this an issue has an effect on the situation in Afghanistan. I do not think it has the effect of creating greater opposition directly, but it can have an effect on the political will of the public and morale of our troups in fighting this war.

So our standards should be set by the enemy we are fighting?

I hope it has an effect on the political will and that we bring my frends home.

By criticizing these soldiers for insignificant actions, you have taken the same side as the terrorists and are supporting them. That might not be your intent, you may be doing it for a variety of reasons, but that is what you are doing.

Their actions were stupid and juvenile. By stating that I am stating the truth.

What these guys did does not warrant the attention or press that it is receiving. It definitely does not merit criminal charges. That being said, please tell me what the real purpose of this is, if it is not to undermine American efforts in accomplishing its objectives.

They made it public and are now at the mercy of the public.

 

[The Ron Mexico]

I love this country. I love these men. I love these men's honor and bravery.

Each one of these men would gladly lay down his life for each one of us.

And we sit here and criticize their actions over the dead bodies of an enemy that has bombed our home, murdered our loved ones and who would gladly do it again if given a chance.

It is sad that we have people in this country who continue to give aid and comfort to the ememy.

Why do you have to be the over the top, internet guy? No one is giving aid and comfort to the enemy. You're just trying to be dramatic to get attention.

 

[LibertyVol]

So our standards should be set by the enemy we are fighting?

I hope it has an effect on the political will and that we bring my frends home.



Their actions were stupid and juvenile. By stating that I am stating the truth.



They made it public and are now at the mercy of the public.

What these guys did is a non issue. It is trivial. The issue is that the people who make an issue of it have a bigger agenda which is to prevent our soldiers from accomplishing their objectives in Afghanistan. Correct me if I am wrong, but i thought those objectives were to rid the region of terrorists. Terrorists who would attack and kill Americans if given the chance.

It is amazing to me how quick people will judge and condemn these guys when given the chance. By doing so (unintentionally in almost all instances) they are at best not helping the situation and at worse helping those who would do us harm.