Per Hyams - Tennessee shut down due to Covid

#301
#301
OrangeSoddyDaisy said:
Then why don't hospitals just say everyone has cancer, heart attacks, strokes and make even more money? Why just pick on Covid?
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Who is providing support subsidies for those other things? And they are overtesting for cancers, strokes, etc. There is existing research on this.

I even have a personal anecdote- my mom, a month and a half or so ago, had stroke-like symptoms triggered likely by stress. The neurologist ID'd that as the likely cause. The hospital (not the doctor!) declined to discharge her and insisted she stay for two days and undergo a battery of tests despite the initial diagnosis. Needless to say the tests showed no signs of a stroke.
 
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#302
#302
OrangeSoddyDaisy said:
Regarding your first paragraph...I thought the screening rooms were to identify patients with possible symptoms so that appropriate measures could be taken so as to not infect staff and other patients. In other words, if you fell and broke your leg and have no other symptoms, you probably just have a broken leg. But, if you fell and broke your leg and also have a fever, cough, can't smell, and haven't take simple precautions such as masking, you might also have Covid.
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At least three hospitals that I know people working in were marking anyone with any single symptom (including stomach pains and any shortness of breath) that weren't obvious trauma as presumptive positives. I believe at least one of the hospitals is still doing this.
 
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#303
#303
ButchPlz said:
Who is providing support subsidies for those other things? And they are overtesting for cancers, strokes, etc. There is existing research on this.

I even have a personal anecdote- my mom, a month and a half or so ago, had stroke-like symptoms triggered likely by stress. The neurologist ID'd that as the likely cause. The hospital (not the doctor!) declined to discharge her and insisted she stay for two days and undergo a battery of tests despite the initial diagnosis. Needless to say the tests showed no signs of a stroke.
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Only doctors can admit and discharge. Hospitals can't do that. In addition, what if your mom had actually had a stroke? How could anyone have known without testing? I bet there'd be a lot of criticism if she'd been sent home the first day in that case.
 
#304
#304
ButchPlz said:
At least three hospitals that I know people working in were marking anyone with any single symptom (including stomach pains and any shortness of breath) that weren't obvious trauma as presumptive positives. I believe at least one of the hospitals is still doing this.
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You are describing responsible screening. Nothing wrong with that. It is done at hospital expense and does not generate any additional revenue. Presumptive means just that.

If you go to your local ER and tell them you are having crushing chest pain, they will appropriately make the presumption you are having a heart attack. This is the safest approach for your benefit. Once the presumption is disproven and you are found to have heartburn, the doctor (not the hospital) diagnoses you with heartburn, not a heart attack.
 
#305
#305
ButchPlz said:
Who is providing support subsidies for those other things? And they are overtesting for cancers, strokes, etc. There is existing research on this.

I even have a personal anecdote- my mom, a month and a half or so ago, had stroke-like symptoms triggered likely by stress. The neurologist ID'd that as the likely cause. The hospital (not the doctor!) declined to discharge her and insisted she stay for two days and undergo a battery of tests despite the initial diagnosis. Needless to say the tests showed no signs of a stroke.
Click to expand...

There may be overtesting. But...if testing does not sometimes come back negative, then not all disease is being found.
 
#308
#308
OrangeSoddyDaisy said:
Then why don't hospitals just say everyone has cancer, heart attacks, strokes and make even more money? Why just pick on Covid?
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Because early on especially with large hospital systems in large cities, the Medicare reimbursement and Fed add-on basically helped those systems with poor leadership or budget issues pay for their bills while elective surgeries and the big money makers were shut down.
 
#309
#309
OrangeSoddyDaisy said:
Only doctors can admit and discharge. Hospitals can't do that. In addition, what if your mom had actually had a stroke? How could anyone have known without testing? I bet there'd be a lot of criticism if she'd been sent home the first day in that case.
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You honestly believe that hospitals can't discharge patients themselves? Or that doctors can be ordered to discharge patients from their superiors?
 
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#310
#310
Rickyvol77 said:
You honestly believe that hospitals can't discharge patients themselves? Or that doctors can be ordered to discharge patients from their superiors?
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Hospitals can discharge patients only with a doctor's order. Doctors might be ordered to do so but it can't happen until they write the order. However, I don't know who the doctor's 'superior' would be in this context.
 
#312
#312
OrangeSoddyDaisy said:
Hospitals can discharge patients only with a doctor's order. Doctors might be ordered to do so but it can't happen until they write the order. However, I don't know who the doctor's 'superior' would be in this context.
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attending residents have multiple levels of superiors, hell even I have ordered for patients to be discharged and i'm not even medical staff.
 
#313
#313
OrangeSoddyDaisy said:
Only doctors can admit and discharge. Hospitals can't do that. In addition, what if your mom had actually had a stroke? How could anyone have known without testing? I bet there'd be a lot of criticism if she'd been sent home the first day in that case.
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Your first statement is patently false.

Also, the very first screen showed no stroke. The second, a few hours later, showed no stroke. She asked if she could go home, they said no- they needed to do more screens, essentially scaring her into staying and undergoing no fewer than four more screens, despite symptoms passing by after the first hour she was in the hospital. That is not responsible, it is irresponsible and greedy.
 
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#314
#314
OrangeSoddyDaisy said:
You are describing responsible screening. Nothing wrong with that. It is done at hospital expense and does not generate any additional revenue. Presumptive means just that.

If you go to your local ER and tell them you are having crushing chest pain, they will appropriately make the presumption you are having a heart attack. This is the safest approach for your benefit. Once the presumption is disproven and you are found to have heartburn, the doctor (not the hospital) diagnoses you with heartburn, not a heart attack.
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Did you seriously just type this? You're saying that hospitals don't bill that back out? This proves beyond doubt either delusion or idiocy, and I'm not sure which it is.
 
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#315
#315
Rickyvol77 said:
attending residents have multiple levels of superiors, hell even I have ordered for patients to be discharged and i'm not even medical staff.
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Attending physicians are at the top of the food chain. The attending is the superior, is a doctor, and can therefore admit and discharge.
 
#316
#316
ButchPlz said:
Did you seriously just type this? You're saying that hospitals don't bill that back out? This proves beyond doubt either delusion or idiocy, and I'm not sure which it is.
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Hospitals bill based on work done to get a final diagnosis. If work is done that the payor deems unnecessary, it is not paid.
 
#317
#317
ButchPlz said:
Your first statement is patently false.

Also, the very first screen showed no stroke. The second, a few hours later, showed no stroke. She asked if she could go home, they said no- they needed to do more screens, essentially scaring her into staying and undergoing no fewer than four more screens, despite symptoms passing by after the first hour she was in the hospital. That is not responsible, it is irresponsible and greedy.
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I suspect they were ruling out potential causes of her transient ischemic attack such as atrial fibrillation, structural heart disease, and carotid stenosis. To do otherwise would be malpractice. You should be appreciative.
 
#319
#319
OrangeSoddyDaisy said:
Hospitals bill based on work done to get a final diagnosis. If work is done that the payor deems unnecessary, it is not paid.
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You are way oversimplifying things.

OrangeSoddyDaisy said:
I suspect they were ruling out potential causes of her transient ischemic attack such as atrial fibrillation, structural heart disease, and carotid stenosis. To do otherwise would be malpractice. You should be appreciative.
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She did not have a TIA, doc. I literally told you this.

Since you're way off base, I think it's best to leave this and let others read the kind of silliness you're posting.
 
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#320
#320
ButchPlz said:
You are way oversimplifying things.


She did not have a TIA, doc. I literally told you this.

Since you're way off base, I think it's best to leave this and let others read the kind of silliness you're posting.
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Neurologic symptoms that spontaneously resolve without a stroke is a TIA provided no other explanation is found.
 
#323
#323
OrangeSoddyDaisy said:
Attending physicians are at the top of the food chain. The attending is the superior, is a doctor, and can therefore admit and discharge.
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lol they are not "top of the food chain" might want to visit an actual Level 1 Trauma Center sometime, especially a teaching one
 
#324
#324
Rickyvol77 said:
lol they are not "top of the food chain" might want to visit an actual Level 1 Trauma Center sometime, especially a teaching one
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Level One trauma centers, especially teaching ones, are run by attending physicians. That is the definition of an attending physician. It's the one in charge.
 
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