Perpetual War & Never-ending State of Mourning

#51
#51
Rasputin_Vol said:
The use of the "propaganda" is not directed at the soldiers. It is directed at the cause and justification for them being in war.

Can you see the distinction?
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One isn't necessarily predicated on the other though. That's the point I'm trying to make at least.
 
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#54
#54
SpaceCoastVol said:
Not really because you are using it as your battle flag to eradicate any kind of celebration or promotion for them. You see flyovers as propaganda for the military. I can use celebration, promotion, even training as a reason.

As to 'cause' for them being in a war? nuh uh. not even close.
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Where did I say we should eradicate the celebrations?
 
#56
#56
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm about to catch flak for this, but here it goes...

This is just something that has popped into my mind over the last few weeks, but I remember a few weeks ago walking to my car about to leave my office when I noticed that the flag was at half mast. The thought occurred to me then that I can't seem to ever remember the flag NOT being at half mast far too often. Seems like when I was a kid, it was a rare occurrence, but now, it literally seems like it could be in that state for a majority of the year.

Then, I went to a Braves game not too long ago and I knew we would have the national anthem and what not. But since I'm not too plugged in to the mainstream/the Matrix, it really hit me at that game just how militarized and propagandized these events are. Veterans throwing out first pitches, being welcomed home after "fighting for our freedoms" and "God Bless America" singing during the 7th inning stretch...

All of this military worship and faux patriotic symbolism has just seemed to be ratcheted way up since 9/11. And my initial feelings about some of this got confirmed when I saw this older news story...

Obama has ordered flags at half-staff more than any president in history

This country is being propagandized with all of the red/white/blue bunting, the stadium fly overs, rah rah 'Murica singing, and constant reminders of why we are (allegedly) fighting these wars halfway around the globe (for our freedoms... which are rapidly eroding).
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I completely agree, we have been way over the top with the military worship. I was in the navy and I've never seen like this. We're losing our freedom daily while we're (over-the-top) praising our military.

I think it has coincided when our military started allowing sodomites to join openly and to continue to normalize that lifestyle choice.

I think it also makes Americans numb to the sacrifices and it's a way to sell products
 
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#58
#58
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#59
#59
Rasputin_Vol said:
They are not protecting us or our freedoms halfway around the world.

That is what the propaganda leads many to believe, however.
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This is a total BS statement. I don't like much about Bush, but he did have enough sense to keep the actual fighting in the ME rather on our soil.
 
#62
#62
Rasputin_Vol said:
Not sure what you mean.
Click to expand...

Rasputin_Vol said:
The use of the "propaganda" is not directed at the soldiers. It is directed at the cause and justification for them being in war.

Can you see the distinction?
Click to expand...

Basically, I'm saying we can honor the service members without having to honor the justification (or lack thereof) of the wars they fight in. I know many times they include the "Sgt Smith returned from Afghanistan where they received a Bronze Star and Purple Heart for actions..." in the speech for honoring them, but I don't specifically relate that as the propaganda for supporting the war effort. I think you're looking at it a little deeper than most and believe that honoring them is a form of forcing the public to accept the overseas engagements we are currently in. I don't think the public as a whole looks that deep into the whole thing and just thinks "this guy's a hero" and moves on.

I do think the public has become numb to the whole idea of foreign interventions. Mainly because it's been going on for so long. Iraq was different because it became a main political talking point and was widely reported. But even when we were "done" over there, we really weren't done and ended up back where we started to an extent. But generally nobody gives a second thought to Afghanistan because it's low level and it's not really being reported that much these days.

I get where your thought process is going, but I don't think the motives are as deep as you believe. More times than not, the venues/teams request those flyovers or honor the individuals/groups at their own rather than something the government is requesting they allow. The Rose Bowl for example had a B-2 flyover during both the parade and during the game itself. That's requested by the Rose Bowl management rather than the USAF saying "hey guys...why don't we do a flyover for you? That'd be cool, right?" These things come at the request of the private institutions (or state depending on the college) rather than the .mil going out of their way to schedule them.
 
#63
#63
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm about to catch flak for this, but here it goes...

This is just something that has popped into my mind over the last few weeks, but I remember a few weeks ago walking to my car about to leave my office when I noticed that the flag was at half mast. The thought occurred to me then that I can't seem to ever remember the flag NOT being at half mast far too often. Seems like when I was a kid, it was a rare occurrence, but now, it literally seems like it could be in that state for a majority of the year.

Then, I went to a Braves game not too long ago and I knew we would have the national anthem and what not. But since I'm not too plugged in to the mainstream/the Matrix, it really hit me at that game just how militarized and propagandized these events are. Veterans throwing out first pitches, being welcomed home after "fighting for our freedoms" and "God Bless America" singing during the 7th inning stretch...

All of this military worship and faux patriotic symbolism has just seemed to be ratcheted way up since 9/11. And my initial feelings about some of this got confirmed when I saw this older news story...

Obama has ordered flags at half-staff more than any president in history

This country is being propagandized with all of the red/white/blue bunting, the stadium fly overs, rah rah 'Murica singing, and constant reminders of why we are (allegedly) fighting these wars halfway around the globe (for our freedoms... which are rapidly eroding).
Click to expand...

Times have changed around here. When I first joined VN, foreign policy was the 3rd rail. You couldn't question our efforts in the war on terror or even smack talk the PATRIOT act and warrantless wiretapping. Now pretty much everybody is on board.
 
#64
#64
I don't get the publicly staged reuniting of family stuff. It's got the feels and all, but all I can think about is how the soldier probably didn't need to be separated from his family for the last year, in harm's way, wasting taxpayers' dollars.
 
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#65
#65
n_huffhines said:
I don't get the publicly staged reuniting of family stuff. It's got the feels and all, but all I can think about is how the soldier probably didn't need to be separated from his family for the last year, in harm's way, wasting taxpayers' dollars.
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And what if the military member was overseas in a hostile area where families weren't allowed? Like embassy duty for example?

Again, this happens to be more on the venue/team rather than the military itself. Look beyond the feelz and into who actually sets that kind of thing up.
 
#67
#67
n_huffhines said:
That's why I said "probably". Obviously, there is some valid soldier work to do abroad.
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Again, who sets those up? You think some brass from the Pentagon just shows up in the ticket line and asks for something like that?

If you have a complaint about said reunifications and/or flyovers and/or honoring those who have served, your best bet is to talk to the teams and colleges themselves.
 
#68
#68
Grand Vol said:
Again, who sets those up? You think some brass from the Pentagon just shows up in the ticket line and asks for something like that?

If you have a complaint about said reunifications and/or flyovers and/or honoring those who have served, your best bet is to talk to the teams and colleges themselves.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? I'm not really concerned with who is responsible.

I am saying I don't get why it makes some people feel patriotic. We seem to automatically accept the reunion like it's a story about great sacrifice with a happy ending, when the truth is it's likely closer to a small tragedy where the family was separated for no good reason. It shouldn't foster feelings of patriotism, IMO.
 
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#69
#69
n_huffhines said:
What are you talking about? I'm not really concerned with who is responsible.

I am saying I don't get why it makes some people feel patriotic. We seem to automatically accept the reunion like it's a story about great sacrifice with a happy ending, when the truth is it's likely closer to a small tragedy where the family was separated for no good reason. It shouldn't foster feelings of patriotism, IMO.
Click to expand...

Well, you didn't say that until now.
 
#70
#70
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm about to catch flak for this, but here it goes...

This is just something that has popped into my mind over the last few weeks, but I remember a few weeks ago walking to my car about to leave my office when I noticed that the flag was at half mast. The thought occurred to me then that I can't seem to ever remember the flag NOT being at half mast far too often. Seems like when I was a kid, it was a rare occurrence, but now, it literally seems like it could be in that state for a majority of the year.

Then, I went to a Braves game not too long ago and I knew we would have the national anthem and what not. But since I'm not too plugged in to the mainstream/the Matrix, it really hit me at that game just how militarized and propagandized these events are. Veterans throwing out first pitches, being welcomed home after "fighting for our freedoms" and "God Bless America" singing during the 7th inning stretch...

All of this military worship and faux patriotic symbolism has just seemed to be ratcheted way up since 9/11. And my initial feelings about some of this got confirmed when I saw this older news story...

Obama has ordered flags at half-staff more than any president in history

This country is being propagandized with all of the red/white/blue bunting, the stadium fly overs, rah rah 'Murica singing, and constant reminders of why we are (allegedly) fighting these wars halfway around the globe (for our freedoms... which are rapidly eroding).
Click to expand...

9/11 triggered most of this. The last time the USA was attacked was WW2 and the nation/world didn't get to watch it on live TV. Like you I dont remember flags being half staff growing up. Recently I've noticed they are half staff almost always. I drive to the airport daily and see it half staff and Im like "Who died now?".

As a combat vet I get annoyed with the "thanks for your service" stuff sometimes. It seems like its just a conditioned response with zero meaning behind it. I was also in the Air Force so..I mean..it was the Air Force. So I accidentally got grouped up with some Marines in a firefight against al qaeda ..doesn't mean I was a hero (unless you're a hot chick wanting to know more).

Anyways Ras..I'm a Vet..and I get where you are coming from man. While I acknowledge the sacrifice people make in the military and as first responders it was still their choice. No one was drafted to do it. I mean do you really think a supply clerk really sacrificed much in the service when they volunteered to join? Nah. I just watched a 6 part documentary from 2000 on Navy Seals BUD/S...now that is some sacrifice (aka those guys are crazy).
 
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#72
#72
SpaceCoastVol said:
First off, using the word 'propagandize' in making these kinds of arguments makes you sound like a nutcase.

That being said, I agree with you that it is done far too much, and incorrectly to boot.

From usflag.org:

USFlag.org: A website dedicated to the Flag of the United States of America - Flag Etiquette

The word 'hero' is used far too much as well.
Click to expand...

So you are saying that when fat ass Christie ordered New Jersey flags to half mast for Whitney Houston he was wrong? Imagine that.
 
#73
#73
n_huffhines said:
I don't get the publicly staged reuniting of family stuff. It's got the feels and all, but all I can think about is how the soldier probably didn't need to be separated from his family for the last year, in harm's way, wasting taxpayers' dollars.
Click to expand...

100% agree with you. When I joined I was in AFSOC, Air Force Special Operations Command. We had been deploying since the first gulf war, non stop, 3 month rotations. You left. You got sand in your vagina. You came home. Got a week off. Went back to work in garrison. Then you left again. Rinse/repeat. When 9/11 happened I was sequestered in a building for 3 days, flown to the persian gulf, got on a marine attack helicopter ship (USS Peleliu), flown into Pakistan, waited on a beach with Navy Seals while a force of Marines took control of a Pakistani air force base, went to said base, stayed for months, then came home. I literally hopped a ride on a C-17 to Charleston SC, changed clothes, flew home and had my then wife pick me up at the airport. Came back to work the next week like nothing happened. Every single deployment was like that for me reunion wise. Oh yeah..I wasnt able to talk to my family for 5 months. No one knew where I was. No one knew if I was alive..

I moved to Iceland to work in a rescue squadron and we went to Europe (Germany) for joint exercises. I was in Germay on the government dime with my own rental car working 3 days a week driving all over the continent hitting up brothels, seeing castles, drinking, drinking, whoring, drinking. It was awesome. Flew back to Iceland on a Russian (collusion!!!!) Antonov and I sh!t you not they had the entire terminal filled with families, signs, throwing confetti..it was insane. I was like "wtf we went to Germany people"...

The reunion stuff has become something that is used for social media acceptance. I get some guys go away for a year and that sucks, but whenever I see an Air Force person doing the reunion crap I call BS on that. Most of the time those reunion videos you see are people I would have called "noners"..basically in the rear with the gear not really impacting actual missions.

Nowadays people have actual buildings they can live in (I had tents and fields). They have air conditioning, internet, video calls, not having to eat their wife's cooking, aka they got it good. I saw a lot of guys do the "I miss my family" bs while deployed only to hear them talk about how much they hated their wife and kids when we were back at our duty stations.
 
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#75
#75
Rasputin_Vol said:
Fair point...



The link I posted with regards to Obama setting the record for most half mast executive orders indicated it started with Eisenhower.

Nevertheless, there just seems to be have been a noticeable uptick since 9/11, either way.
Click to expand...

To be honest, you need to check how many of the half staff flags were ordered by the president and how many were ordered by your governor.
 
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