Peyton breaks TD record

#126
#126
LEATHERHEAD VOL said:
How is it narrow mined, irrational, and complete disregard of actual facts to prove that other teams have had better coaching that what Manning has had??? You asked for folks to post stats/facts if they are to talk about football and when others did you say those stats don't matter. :ermm:
You just seem to be trollin' now.
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How can you provide facts in regards to who is a better coach??? That is pure speculation. Montana's body of work as a whole is better than Peyton IMO. 11 TD's/ 0 INT's in the biggest game.
 
#127
#127
jkleno said:
Let the excuse machine keep on rolling. Narrow minded, irrational and complete disregard to actual facts. The excuses are comical at this point- the next one will say that Montana had a better RG and DE for 2 years. C'mon man.
If Peyton can win this year's Super Bowl, he enters the discussion. Until then, it is Montana's honor. However, if the Pats win, then Brady takes the honor. Again, look at playoff records, Super Bowl performances, head to head match ups. How could "Brady haters" ever deny what Brady has done to Manning- especially this year, did anyone actually watch the game?????" What irrational excuses do you have for what happened this year?
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Bill Belicheck's halftime adjustments. That man may well be the GOAT coach.
 
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#128
#128
LEATHERHEAD VOL said:
How is it narrow mined, irrational, and complete disregard of actual facts to prove that other teams have had better coaching that what Manning has had??? You asked for folks to post stats/facts if they are to talk about football and when others did you say those stats don't matter. :ermm:
You just seem to be trollin' now.
Click to expand...

I simply do not think Peyton is the GOAT. I appreciate what he has done for my university, but I don't throw out unwarranted accolades just because he was the QB at my college. IMO he is #3, but that could change if he wins it all this year. I do not think Dilfer is better than Marino because of his 1 Super Bowl win, but playoff performance has to be a significant part of the equation. Again, that is my opinion and others might look at regular season performance as the most important or who had better coaching or who had a better team around them, etc. Coming up with the GOAT is not a perfect science, so when someone throws out GOAT in this thread it brings up quit a bit of different opinions.
 
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#129
#129
LEATHERHEAD VOL said:
How is it narrow mined, irrational, and complete disregard of actual facts to prove that other teams have had better coaching that what Manning has had??? You asked for folks to post stats/facts if they are to talk about football and when others did you say those stats don't matter. :ermm:
You just seem to be trollin' now.
Click to expand...

Bingo. Ignoring facts, repeating opinions and then accusing others of ignoring his opinion as if it were a fact.

And while he continues to become even more irrational, he begins to accuse others of being irrational. Just pitiful.

Now we're going to pretend as if playing for perhaps the greatest coaches of their respective eras didn't help Montana or Brady. Dude is making a spectacle of himself. And he claims to be a Vol fan -- LOL!
 
#131
#131
jkleno said:
How can you provide facts in regards to who is a better coach??? That is pure speculation.
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Because they are all dynasty football coaches, all of them are in the HOF or will be, and all of them are regarded as the best coaches of their era. Fact, not speculation.
 
#132
#132
Hacksaw said:
Bingo. Ignoring facts, repeating opinions and then accusing others of ignoring his opinion as if it were a fact.

And while he continues to become even more irrational, he begins to accuse others of being irrational. Just pitiful.

Now we're going to pretend as if playing for perhaps the greatest coaches of their respective eras didn't help Montana or Brady. Dude is making a spectacle of himself. And he claims to be a Vol fan -- LOL!
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This for the win!:rock:
Having a great coach is something Manning has never had. Hell, having a great supporting cast of coaches and players is something Manning has never really had.
 
#133
#133
Hacksaw said:
Bingo. Ignoring facts, repeating opinions and then accusing others of ignoring his opinion as if it were a fact.

And while he continues to become even more irrational, he begins to accuse others of being irrational. Just pitiful.

Now we're going to pretend as if playing for perhaps the greatest coaches of their respective eras didn't help Montana or Brady. Dude is making a spectacle of himself. And he claims to be a Vol fan -- LOL!
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"Hacksaw"
1) Brady all time winning % is .773 highest all time
Peyton is .697
2) Brady has single season highest QB rating ever 121.1
3) Brady has 3 Super Bowl wins and 2 Super Bowl MVP's
Manning has 1
4) Manning does have 4 regular season MVP's versus Brady's 2
5) Manning did break Brady's 50 TD's in a season, adv Manning
All good arguments based on facts, not opinions. It is a debate that could be argued either way between these two.

**I haven't even mentioned Montana yet, who I feel is #1 IMO.
1) Most post season TD's 45
2) Super Bowl QB rating of 127.8
3) 4 Super Bowl victories with 11 TD's versus 0 INT's.
4) Only 3 time Super Bowl MVP
Most of his records are post season records since his regular season accomplishments have been surpassed in this day of passing.
 
#134
#134
Brady and Montana both have/had great HC and great supporting cast of players on offence and defence. That is something Manning has never had and he is still in the conversion . Is he the greatest to ever play the game---to me yes. All he has accomplished he has had to do it himself. I do believe this years Denvers offence is full of playmakers for him to make a run at winning the SB with, but he still doesn't have a top notch HC or a really good defense.
 
#135
#135
LEATHERHEAD VOL said:
Brady and Montana both have/had great HC and great supporting cast of players on offence and defence. That is something Manning has never had and he is still in the conversion . Is he the greatest to ever play the game---to me yes. All he has accomplished he has had to do it himself. I do believe this years Denvers offence is full of playmakers for him to make a run at winning the SB with, but he still doesn't have a top notch HC or a really good defense.
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I couldn't disagree with more- you stated "all he has accomplished he has had to do it himself." Anyway, Merry Christmas to you and thanks for conversing about a great topic. I will conclude by saying that I truly hope Peyton wins the Super Bowl this year and really makes this a great topic to discuss. Thanks bro.
 
#136
#136
jkleno said:
"Hacksaw"
1) Brady all time winning % is .773 highest all time
Peyton is .697
2) Brady has single season highest QB rating ever 121.1
3) Brady has 3 Super Bowl wins and 2 Super Bowl MVP's
Manning has 1
4) Manning does have 4 regular season MVP's versus Brady's 2
5) Manning did break Brady's 50 TD's in a season, adv Manning
All good arguments based on facts, not opinions. It is a debate that could be argued either way between these two.

**I haven't even mentioned Montana yet, who I feel is #1 IMO.
1) Most post season TD's 45
2) Super Bowl QB rating of 127.8
3) 4 Super Bowl victories with 11 TD's versus 0 INT's.
4) Only 3 time Super Bowl MVP
Most of his records are post season records since his regular season accomplishments have been surpassed in this day of passing.
Click to expand...

Wrong on #3. That 121 passer rating actually belongs to Manning from his 49 passing tds season, and is actually 2nd all time. Aaron Rodgers owns the highest passer rating at 122.5 in 2011. Brady's highest QB rating is 117.2 in 2007.
 
#138
#138
So jkleno, by his own logic, obviously considers Timmy Smith to be the greatest running back in NFL history. Forget Jim Brown and Barry Sanders. Those guys may have a bunch of gaudy regular-season stats, but you can completely dismiss them. The only numbers that count are the ones that are attained on the biggest stage.

So it is simply a travesty of justice that Timmy Smith is not in the Hall of Fame, because he is clearly the GOAT at the running back position.
 
#139
#139
I hope he can add a Super Bowl or two to his resume. He can never get with a team who has a good defense.
 
#140
#140
Tarkus said:
Vol fans can't give Brady credit? What was the first thing I said in my post? Wow so the Patriots cheated? Yes! Why do you think they got that huge freakin fine and lost draft picks? They cheated! The spy gate thing is not ridiculous, if it had been, the Patriots wouldn't have been punished so severely, and what I said is still true. The Patriots have not won a SB since they were caught.
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So because the Pats have not won a Super Bowl since means what? They have been to 2 more Super Bowls since.
 
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#141
#141
jkleno said:
"Hacksaw"
1) Brady all time winning % is .773 highest all time
Peyton is .697
2) Brady has single season highest QB rating ever 121.1
3) Brady has 3 Super Bowl wins and 2 Super Bowl MVP's
Manning has 1
4) Manning does have 4 regular season MVP's versus Brady's 2
5) Manning did break Brady's 50 TD's in a season, adv Manning
All good arguments based on facts, not opinions. It is a debate that could be argued either way between these two.

**I haven't even mentioned Montana yet, who I feel is #1 IMO.
1) Most post season TD's 45
2) Super Bowl QB rating of 127.8
3) 4 Super Bowl victories with 11 TD's versus 0 INT's.
4) Only 3 time Super Bowl MVP
Most of his records are post season records since his regular season accomplishments have been surpassed in this day of passing.
Click to expand...

When comparing individuals, doesn't it make more sense to compare individual stats?

I know all 11 guys contribute to every play, but individual stats surely paint a more accurate picture than wins/Superbowls.

I have never understood why ESPN pundits refuse to subscribe to this.

"So and so has more rings".... So?

That has to make any athlete who has been on a bad team cringe. (Which is almost all high level athletes at some point in their life)

Yet they keep making that comparison which isn't really fair. And not just talking about Peyton.
 
#142
#142
jkleno said:
I simply do not think Peyton is the GOAT. I appreciate what he has done for my university, but I don't throw out unwarranted accolades just because he was the QB at my college. IMO he is #3, but that could change if he wins it all this year. I do not think Dilfer is better than Marino because of his 1 Super Bowl win, but playoff performance has to be a significant part of the equation. Again, that is my opinion and others might look at regular season performance as the most important or who had better coaching or who had a better team around them, etc. Coming up with the GOAT is not a perfect science, so when someone throws out GOAT in this thread it brings up quit a bit of different opinions.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I don't understand why UT fans cannot except fans who don't think Peyton is the GOAT. Why are postseason records and stats not considered when talking about Peyton's legacy? It seems that they are ignored. It's only his regular season record and stats that count.

Doesn't also seem convenient that when it comes to Peyton whatever success the Colts/Broncos have had is all him. The Colts SB win was all him. Yet Montana and Brady's championships were TEAM wins. It's ridiculous. I for one cannot get past Peyton's horrible post season record and stats.

Here is a good analogy, would Jordan be considered the GOAT if he didn't have a stellar postseason record?
 
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#143
#143
Hacksaw said:
So jkleno, by his own logic, obviously considers Timmy Smith to be the greatest running back in NFL history. Forget Jim Brown and Barry Sanders. Those guys may have a bunch of gaudy regular-season stats, but you can completely dismiss them. The only numbers that count are the ones that are attained on the biggest stage.

So it is simply a travesty of justice that Timmy Smith is not in the Hall of Fame, because he is clearly the GOAT at the running back position.
Click to expand...

It's only about the regular season right? The only stats that matter when considering greatness is what is done in the regular season. The postseason doesn't matter because those are team wins right? Regular season stats are individual stats and postseason stats are just team stats right?
 
#144
#144
Ten_Titans said:
When comparing individuals, doesn't it make more sense to compare individual stats?

I know all 11 guys contribute to every play, but individual stats surely paint a more accurate picture than wins/Superbowls.

I have never understood why ESPN pundits refuse to subscribe to this.

"So and so has more rings".... So?

That has to make any athlete who has been on a bad team cringe. (Which is almost all high level athletes at some point in their life)

Yet they keep making that comparison which isn't really fair. And not just talking about Peyton.
Click to expand...

We don't even need to leave the Manning name to make this point. In 1972 Archie led the league in passing yards for a 2 win team. In '78 went to the Pro Bowl and was named 1st Team All NFC at QB...
off a 7-9 team. Just imagine what that guy might have accomplished on a better team. Lee Roy Selmon was nothing short of outstanding. A GREAT football player who toiled away with some absolutely dreadful Bucs teams. Hell, we could make a whole thread out of "Great players that were wasted on bad teams" but in the end too many people want to make it about team success superimposed over the player. It's just how it works I guess.
 
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#145
#145
burntorangeVOLffle said:
Outside of Reggie Wayne who is playing well with Luck, what receivers have gone to other teams and put up the same numbers without Manning?
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That's not a point that helps you. Peyton played with the same cast for atleast ten years. That means they must be doing something right to keep that stability. Plus he had world beaters at RB too. Those players that were top five at their positions played for one franchise most of their careers.
 
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#146
#146
BigOrangeTrain said:
It's only about the regular season right? The only stats that matter when considering greatness is what is done in the regular season. The postseason doesn't matter because those are team wins right? Regular season stats are individual stats and postseason stats are just team stats right?
Click to expand...

Not sure why you would think that. Maybe it's just easier to fight the straw man, instead of addressing my argument directly. I want to look at all the stats, all the facts and attempt to put things in perspective. You're accusing me of what the Peyton-haters always do. They're the ones who think that only post-season numbers matter. I'm happy to compare Peyton's post-season numbers with any other QB, just so long as we look at regular season, too.
 
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#147
#147
hndog609 said:
We don't even need to leave the Manning name to make this point. In 1972 Archie led the league in passing yards for a 2 win team. In '78 went to the Pro Bowl and was named 1st Team All NFC at QB...
off a 7-9 team. Just imagine what that guy might have accomplished on a better team. Lee Roy Selmon was nothing short of outstanding. A GREAT football player who toiled away with some absolutely dreadful Bucs teams. Hell, we could make a whole thread out of "Great players that were wasted on bad teams" but in the end too many people want to make it about team success superimposed over the player. It's just how it works I guess.
Click to expand...

The list of great players who never won a championship goes on and on. Honestly, this is such a simple concept that it boggles the mind when you see people who don't get it.
 
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#148
#148
JMSqb11 said:
That's not a point that helps you. Peyton played with the same cast for atleast ten years. That means they must be doing something right to keep that stability. Plus he had world beaters at RB too. Those players that were top five at their positions played for one franchise most of their careers.
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Since James his RB's were mediocre at best and James was not good when he left Indy either. How good are Garcon, Collie, Stokely, Dallas Clark without Peyton throwing the ball? The defense was garbage the entire time Peyton was there outside of the one year Sanders was healthy.
 
#150
#150
JMSqb11 said:
That's not a point that helps you. Peyton played with the same cast for atleast ten years. That means they must be doing something right to keep that stability. Plus he had world beaters at RB too. Those players that were top five at their positions played for one franchise most of their careers.
Click to expand...

The Colts did draft and resign many if their free agents but they also let several go. They would bring in rookies like Piere Garcón amd Austin Collie who Manning would make look like pro bowlers.

Other than six years with Edgerin James who are these World Beater RBs you speak of?Once James was gone the Colts were never a good rushing team.
 
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