Peyton Manning vs Tom Brady DEBATE

Who is the better QB?

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#26
#26
bam15 said:
Colts:

2002: #8 Overall, #2 in Pass Defense
2003: #11 Overall, #5 in Pass Defense
2004: #29 Overall
2005: #11 Overall
2006: #21 Overall SB WIN
2007: #3 Overall, #2 Pass Defense
2008: #11 Overall, #6 Pass Defense
2009: #18 Overall

Pats:

2002: #23 Overall, #31 Rush Defense
2003: #7 Overall, #4 Rush Defense SB WIN
2004: #9 Overall SB WIN
2005: #26 Overall
2006: #6 Overall
2007: #4 Overall
2008: #10 Overall
2009: #11 Overall

2002: Colts
2003: Pats
2004: Pats
2005: Colts
2006: Pats
2007: Colts
2008: Pats
2009: Pats

The defensive argument is overplayed.

Brady holds multiple playoff and regular season offensive records.
Click to expand...

I'll further reiterate this with the current season. I realize that a lot of season is left, but look at these disturbing statistics for a 9-2 team:

The Patriots are ranked 31st in the league in total defense, allowing a whopping 399.1 yards per outing. Only two teams since 1970 have allowed more than 400 yards per game — the 2008 winless Detroit Lions (0-16) and the 1981 Baltimore Colts, who allowed 424.6 yards per outing and won just two games.

That’s not the company that Belichick and the Patriots want to run with.

But here they are, allowing opponents to convert 51 percent of their third downs and opposing quarterbacks to complete a league-best 68.3 percent of their passes. If that trend continues, it would be the fourth-highest completion percentage in NFL history since at least 1950, according to FootballOutsiders.com. In addition, they’re allowing teams to score touchdowns in the red zone 63.2 percent of the time.

If there is any silver lining it’s the fact that the Patriots are tied for second with a plus-11 turnover differential, and tied for fourth with 15 interceptions.

As bad as New England’s defense has been, they’re sitting in a first-place tie atop the AFC East with the New York Jets, both with 9-2 records.

The Patriots lead the league in points (334) and are on pace to become the second-highest- scoring team in franchise history behind their record-setting 2007 campaign.

Time for Pats’ defense to really toe the line | New England Patriots | projo.com | The Providence Journal
 
#27
#27
Pats pass D is a disaster and that's where all the yardage comes from. That's not near the problem that the Colts' perpetual inability to defend the run. Its a problem, but not near as destructive.
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#28
#28
I can't make an educated argument for either, but I will say this...

Peyton gets the edge when asking about statistics, but Brady gets the edge when asking about statistics when it matters, in the post-season.

If your asking about which player means more to their respective teams, Peyton wins hands down. In case of injury, the Patriots could survive without Brady. Peyton IS the Colts. If he goes down, so does the team.

I think that Peyton is the better overall quarterback. But Brady is a close second.
 
#29
#29
milohimself said:
I suspect Peyton is the more skilled, but Brady has easily had a better career. So Brady.
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By Super Bowl wins alone. Last I checked, football is a team sport and Brady's teams were much better. Defense, special teams, and coaching won those Super Bowls as much as Tom Brady did.

Peyton Manning.
 
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#30
#30
Look at the records Brady holds with an offense that is decidedly less pass happy than Indy.

On tip of that, Brady has nearly always been clutch in big games; peyton, though he does have a superbowl, also has a lot of chokes.

Let me rephrase: their talent, ability to read defenses and make throws are close to inseparable but Brady has won far more than Peyton has. So I'll take Brady.
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#31
#31
Which records? The 2007 season got him most of his records and they were chucking the hell out of the ball.

Manning has 35 4th quarter comebacks and 45 game winning drives.
Brady has 22 and 31.
That's 2.9 per year for Manning and 2.45 for Brady.

Not bad for such a choke artist.
 
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#32
#32
bam15 said:
Colts:

2002: #8 Overall, #2 in Pass Defense
2003: #11 Overall, #5 in Pass Defense
2004: #29 Overall
2005: #11 Overall
2006: #21 Overall SB WIN
2007: #3 Overall, #2 Pass Defense
2008: #11 Overall, #6 Pass Defense
2009: #18 Overall

Pats:

2002: #23 Overall, #31 Rush Defense
2003: #7 Overall, #4 Rush Defense SB WIN
2004: #9 Overall SB WIN
2005: #26 Overall
2006: #6 Overall
2007: #4 Overall
2008: #10 Overall
2009: #11 Overall

2002: Colts
2003: Pats
2004: Pats
2005: Colts
2006: Pats
2007: Colts
2008: Pats
2009: Pats

The defensive argument is overplayed.

Brady holds multiple playoff and regular season offensive records.
Click to expand...

You're looking at this completely wrong. Yards allowed isn't the crucial point, POINTS allowed is. The reason that yards allowed defensively is beside the point is because when a team races to a lead, the opposing team starts passing the ball all over the place. When it starts getting late into the 3rd and into the 4th, the defenses tend to start dropping into a cover-7 or cover-8 look with minimal pressure, allowing seams all over the place for a quarterback to put the ball.

So, in terms of points allowed since 2001....
2001 - Patriots 6th, Colts 31st
2002 - Patriots 17th, Colts 7th
2003 - Patriots 1st, Colts 20th
2004 - Patriots 2nd, Colts 19th
2005 - Patriots 17th, Colts 2nd
2006 - Patriots 2nd, Colts 23rd
2007 - Patriots 4th, Colts 1st
2008 - Patriots 8th, Colts 7th
2009 - Patriots 5th, Colts 8th

As a whole, the Colts have allowed 2,960 points to the Patriots' 2,559. The Patriots have had six years of allowing less than 300 points, the Colts three (and one of those was 298).

Offensively, the Colts have scored over 400 points seven times, the Patriots four. If you want to include the 1999 and 2000 seasons, the Colts have scored over 400 points nine times in Manning's career.

The Pythagorean formula is used to determine likely wins and losses based on points scored versus points allowed. Since 2001, the Colts have beaten their expected W-L record by 10 games, the Patriots by 6. I'll also throw in the fact that the Patriots have had basically the same offensive line since 2005 (Light, Neal, Kaczur, Mankins, Koppen), whereas Manning has had to break in several rookies.
 
#34
#34
heartvols said:
Tom Brady 3 SB rings > Peyton Manning 1 SB ring
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Guys like Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, and Joe Namath have as many Super Bowl rings as Peyton Manning and Brett Favre and more than Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Warren Moon, and Fran Tarkenton.

Super Bowl argument is garbage in a team sport that consists of 24 starters.
 
#35
#35
chavisut said:
Guys like Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, and Joe Namath have as many Super Bowl rings as Peyton Manning and Brett Favre and more than Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Warren Moon, and Fran Tarkenton.

Super Bowl argument is garbage in a team sport that consists of 24 starters.
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Otto Graham had 7 combined AAFC and NFL championships (and 3 losses in title game), and I might be the only one who believes he's the best to ever play the position. But I'd think that even without including the titles....he was the most dominant quarterback during his career by a sizable margin, and dominated to an extent not seen before or since. I'll also add that that was during a golden age of quarterbacks.
 
#38
#38
This argument really amazes me. I cannot understand why people think Brady is better. Yeah he has three super bowls to Mannings 1 but football is a game where there are 53 players on a team. Unlike basketball its hard to judge a player on championships. Oh yeah and using Bradys 2007 stats as a comparison is hilarious. Many of the TDs Brady scored were late in the game when it was way out of hand. To me, the record for most Passing TDs in a season still belongs to Peyton. Give me Peyton Manning any day. And this coming from a Titans fan...
 
#39
#39
Peyton Manning is a great qb, but he's probable not even in my top 5-8 qbs all time.
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#41
#41
The argument for points against really isn't fair either IMO, JMO. Peyton loves to score and score as quickly as possible. This leaves his defenses on the field forever, and eventually causes them to give up points. I always laugh when the Colts are up 10-14 with about 5 min to go and Peyton throws three straight incompletions taking up roughly 11 seconds. Even if your o-line can't run block for squat, run the freaking ball, melt clock or at least force the other team to waste timeouts.

I choose Brady just because he manages the game so much better.
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#42
#42
bam15 said:
I should probably refrain from posting in this thread, but I find this to be a poor argument.

Belichick for all that he is, is not an offensive mastermind. The dude practically wrote the book on defenses, but that does not qualify him as an offensive genius. Weis, McDaniels, and O'Brien have called the plays in that order. I would rank Tom Moore higher than all three of them. Once you factor in Howard Mudd's expertise on zone-blocking, you have some veteran coaches. If you're talking defensively, sure, Belichick coached teams always have well-coached defenses. In Peyton's defense however, Dungy and Mora are no slouches. In regards to head-coaching, that is irrelevant, all three Patriot's assistants have left and failed. That tells you the real magic between Belichick and Brady.

Did you watch the 2001 Super Bowl? The 2003? Who do you think marched them down the field? Antowain Smith? Kevin Faulk? Hell, he had 354 passing yards against the Panthers.

Let's look at it this way, Manning has had great receivers his entire career -- Harrison, Wayne, Clark while Brady only until recently threw the ball to Troy Brown, David Givens, Deion Branch, and David Patten.

If you want to look at the system, the Erhardt-Perkins system was originally geared toward running the ball. Freaking Manning runs what ever he pleases, a QB friendly system.

Offensively, Tom Brady tied the NFL record for leading his team to the largest margin of victory with 6 touchdowns in one half, yes last year; he didn't play in the second half.

Brady also holds the NFL records for most touchdowns in a season with 56, talk about offensive firepower.

Brady is tied for the most completions in a Super Bowl, and holds the record for most passing completions in Super Bowl history.

Brady is the only QB to start and win 3 Super Bowls before his 28th birthday.

Let's look at Manning's offensive juggernaut playoff record:

In 1999 Manning throws 0 TDs in 42 attempts in first round elimination loss to Titans.

In 2000 Manning throws 1 TD in first round elimination loss to Dolphins, giving Miami their only playoff win of the entire decade.

In 2001 Manning throws 23 INTs during regular season as team misses playoffs.

In 2002 Manning throws 0 TDs and 2 INTs in 41-0 first round elimination loss to the 9-7 Jets

In 2003 Manning throws 4 INTs in AFC Championship game in elimination loss to Patriots. "MVP" season

In 2004 Manning throws 0 TDs and 1 INT in AFC Championship game in elimination loss to Patriots. "MVP" season

In 2005 Manning throws 1 TD at home in a first game elimination loss to the Steelers, after a 14-2 season.

In 2006 Manning threw 3 TDs + 7 INTs during his Super Bowl winning season.

In 2007 Manning throws 6 INTs in regular season loss to Norv Turner's Chargers and then proceeds to be eliminated in first playoff game by same team.

In 2008 Manning throws 1 TD against 31st ranked Norv Turner pass defense in a first round elimination, loss to 8-8 Chargers. “MVP” season

In 2009 Manning throws a game winning interception for the New Orleans Saints in the Super bowl and only manages to score 17 points on the 26th ranked defense. "MVP" season

Manning also plays in an artificial environment, and is not exposed to cold or harsh weather like Brady.

I'll also add that head to head, Brady is winning. Not to mention the illusive Super Bowl rings that he owns.

I could keep going, but I'll stop now.

I'll take Brady.
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+1

I like Peyton better by far, but he is one of the more frustrating players I watch.
 
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#43
#43
I'll just throw this out there as props for both of them;

Best I can tell in the last 20yrs (and perhaps longer, that's just how far back I went) there's been a grand total of 2 teams win a SB with neither a top 10 running game or top 10 defense...Brady's '01 team and Manning's '06 team.

Having said that I think Brady has played on better teams than Manning. I think this is particularly true when you look at playoff games where things like defense and the ability to run the ball are at an even higher premium and even more so in cold/inclement weather.

They're both great. 1st ballot no-brainer HOFamers great. But if they both just up and retired tomorrow the Patriots take a step back while the Colts simply fall off a cliff IMO.
 
#44
#44
I chose Brady because it always boils down to Superbowl victories. I don't like Brady, I don't like the team he plays for nor his head coach. That's secondary, however, to the fact that they have 3 Superbowl Championships out of 4 trips.

Peyton always seems to be able to do less with more. He could never beat Florida while at UT and his gaudy NFL regular season statistics are balanced out by atrocious post-season stats. He seems to be getting to the point now where is body can no longer work as fast as his brain.
 
#48
#48
bam15 said:
In 2005 Manning throws 1 TD at home in a first game elimination loss to the Steelers, after a 14-2 season.

In 2006 Manning threw 3 TDs + 7 INTs during his Super Bowl winning season.

In 2007 Manning throws 6 INTs in regular season loss to Norv Turner's Chargers and then proceeds to be eliminated in first playoff game by same team.

In 2008 Manning throws 1 TD against 31st ranked Norv Turner pass defense in a first round elimination, loss to 8-8 Chargers. “MVP” season

In 2009 Manning throws a game winning interception for the New Orleans Saints in the Super bowl and only manages to score 17 points on the 26th ranked defense. "MVP" season
Click to expand...

What's interesting about those first 3 playoff losses you mention is that Manning played well in all of them. 90+ passer rating in each game. It's a team sport.

In his Super Bowl run the Colts played only 1 team that was capable offensively (the Patriots, which Manning and the Colts had to score 38 beat), other than that he played game-manager (Bears, Ravens, and Chiefs were all stronger defensively).

2009 Super Bowl, Saints were already winning before the pick 6. The play and that situation never happen if the Colts 2 best defensive players (Sanders and Freeney) are playing. I'd love to see if Brady wins any Super Bowl without Bruschi and Seymour. Oh yeah, Garcon's pivotal drops and the onside kick must be on Manning, too. It's a team sport, and even at that winning an individual game is still random. The best team doesn't always win so how can you expect the best QB to win?
 
#49
#49
Brady's five billion TD's occurred due to him playing about 200 more minutes than he should have, for the record.
 
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