Please fire Cuonzo now

#251
#251
bleedingTNorange said:
And he may not get drafted 2nd round this year either. The most recent update from draft express who's the best in the biz has him going 19th in round 2. He started the year at the back end of the 1st round, so he's steadily slid down their boards.

And as you said above, 2nd round picks go to foreign players lots of times, so no promise he will even be drafted this year.

Which leads me right back to my original point, I don't see how he definitely made himself money by returning.
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Because he is better.

I knew his stock would continue to drop. It's not because he has gotten worse. It's because it's the way those draft boards work. They fill it up with 5* American kids still in college and then as players emerge and foreign players start making their way onto boards, guys drop down. Stokes has never been a 1st rounder. Not sure he ever could be due to his limitations.

He made himself money because he has showed tons of improvement. His jump in free throw shooting is remarkable.

IMO if he had left last year, he was playing overseas. No doubt in my mind. Since he has returned, I could see him landing a spot in the league even if he's not drafted. If not in the NBA, he has improved his stock enough that he is worth more money wherever he lands.
 
#252
#252
Stokes isn't going to tell the media that the nba said he wasn't going to get drafted so he came back.
And they give a 2nd round grade to a ton of players anyway. It really means little and many end up disappointed if that's all they go by.
 
#253
#253
Stoked4Zo said:
You can tell in Stokes tone of voice he is done with Cuonzo. So if CCM is still here I think there is a 0% chance he comes back.
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Yep, that seems to be in his tone and his words. He said that they have Georgia next and………wait for it………… they have a smart coach and good point guard. Ouch!
 
#254
#254
BigZiti09 said:
Because he is better.

I knew his stock would continue to drop. It's not because he has gotten worse. It's because it's the way those draft boards work. They fill it up with 5* American kids still in college and then as players emerge and foreign players start making their way onto boards, guys drop down. Stokes has never been a 1st rounder. Not sure he ever could be due to his limitations.

He made himself money because he has showed tons of improvement. His jump in free throw shooting is remarkable.

IMO if he had left last year, he was playing overseas. No doubt in my mind. Since he has returned, I could see him landing a spot in the league even if he's not drafted. If not in the NBA, he has improved his stock enough that he is worth more money wherever he lands.
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How much?

Let's say last year he signs onto a rookie FA contract, 2-3 years depending on team option. League minimum is around 500k, so 500k a year for at most 3 years before he can get himself a new deal. He goes this year, has improved his game, goes undrafted. Signs a 600k contract, after 3 years he still lost money, that's my point.

It would take a pretty big increase for him to have made himself money is my point. No GM is gonna give a late 2nd round pick or FA an equivalent contract to a 1st rounder, just not gonna happen. The only way Stokes made himself money by retuning is if he ends up getting a pretty large contract, which given his current projections seems doubtful.
 
#255
#255
bleedingTNorange said:
Oh, well I haven't spoke to his family so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. The interviews Jarnell did last year after he got his grade he said they told him 2nd round, that's what I was going on.

Still doesn't change what the rest of my post said though. If he goes undrafted this year, or even is a late 2nd round pick, there's no guarantee he made himself more money. Say he gets an extra 30k, he also lost 1 year that he could've been playing for 400k. Doesn't add up to me. If he went from undrafted to 1st round, then yea he made himself money, but from I drafted to late 2nd-unstaffed, I don't see that as making money.
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whatever man. You'd argue with God himself. Nevermind. Stokes isn't better. He hasn't lost weight and toned up. He hasn't shown more offensive skill, which he was told he needed to do. His footwork hasn't improved and he hasn't shown the ability to get down the floor, or improve his ft%, which isn't important at all for someone getting double digit rebounds. Long life in the NBA isn't about improving skill sets. It's about making 400k in one year and being out of the league the next.
 
#256
#256
bleedingTNorange said:
How much?

Let's say last year he signs onto a rookie FA contract, 2-3 years depending on team option. League minimum is around 500k, so 500k a year for at most 3 years before he can get himself a new deal. He goes this year, has improved his game, goes undrafted. Signs a 600k contract, after 3 years he still lost money, that's my point.
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He wouldn't have gotten a rookie FA contract last year. No way. He would be in Tajikistan making 100k.
 
#257
#257
Spartacavolus said:
whatever man. You'd argue with God himself. Nevermind. Stokes isn't better. He hasn't lost weight and toned up. He hasn't shown more offensive skill, which he was told he needed to do. His footwork hasn't improved and he hasn't shown the ability to get down the floor, or improve his ft%, which isn't important at all for someone getting double digit rebounds. Long life in the NBA isn't about improving skill sets. It's about making 400k in one year and being out of the league the next.
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I never said any of that. Why when someone disagrees with you do you throw a hissy fit?

Stokes has absolutely improved, but that doesn't mean he made himself money. You have said yourself he's limited by the coach we have. You're telling me that if he went last year, got to work with some of the best coaches and assistants around, that he wouldn't be where he is today?
 
#258
#258
BigZiti09 said:
He wouldn't have gotten a rookie FA contract last year. No way. He would be in Tajikistan making 100k.
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Tajikistan, really? If BW, Chism, Hopson,Lofton can all go play in quality leagues over seas making good money when they couldn't sniff the NBA, I'm sure Stokes could too. I have a friend playing in Norway, never sniffed the NBA and he's making $500K a year, so overseas isn't always less money either.

I think Stokes could've signed on with someone as a FA, there's no point in arguing that though because you can't prove it right or wrong either way. If stokes is so limited because of this inept coach we have, I would think he would show out in workout and camps and catch some bodies eye.
 
#259
#259
Stokes is a rebounding machine, and he has nice shooting touch. He has a bright future IMHO.
 
#260
#260
bleedingTNorange said:
Tajikistan, really? If BW, Chism, Hopson,Lofton can all go play in quality leagues over seas making good money when they couldn't sniff the NBA, I'm sure Stokes could too. I have a friend playing in Norway, never sniffed the NBA and he's making $500K a year, so overseas isn't always less money either.

I think Stokes could've signed on with someone as a FA, there's no point in arguing that though because you can't prove it right or wrong either way. If stokes is so limited because of this inept coach we have, I would think he would show out in workout and camps and catch some bodies eye.
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Stokes is limited in his measurables. He's an undersized post that plays below the rim. Not what NBA is centered around.

My point was simply that he would have been playing overseas. Now, he has a decent shot at finding a spot somewhere in the league. If not, he's improved his stock enough that he's worth more money overseas.
 
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#261
#261
BigZiti09 said:
Stokes is limited in his measurables. He's an undersized post that plays below the rim. Not what NBA is centered around.

My point was simply that he would have been playing overseas. Now, he has a decent shot at finding a spot somewhere in the league. If not, he's improved his stock enough that he's worth more money overseas.
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I think that's why we see more of that jumper. If he hits that consistently, he's getting paid good next year. Also, driving to the hole is a plus.
 
#262
#262
Everyone forgets that Stokes just turned 20. With good coaching his offensive games will continue to improve. He's not even close to his potential.
 
#263
#263
BigZiti09 said:
Stokes is limited in his measurables. He's an undersized post that plays below the rim. Not what NBA is centered around.

My point was simply that he would have been playing overseas. Now, he has a decent shot at finding a spot somewhere in the league. If not, he's improved his stock enough that he's worth more money overseas.
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I see him being a Dajuan Blair type, nothing at all wrong with that. He's probably got better measurable than Blair honestly, and could be a solid role player.

I 100% agree he has improved, my stance is he could've likely signed on somewhere as a FA. Or at worst, could've done 1 year in the D league and worked on his game. For as much as Zo gets blasted about lack of development and not putting Stokes in position to succeed, wouldn't Stokes have possibly improved MORE had he been somewhere else this season? And he would be getting paid?
 
#264
#264
bleedingTNorange said:
I see him being a Dajuan Blair type, nothing at all wrong with that. He's probably got better measurable than Blair honestly, and could be a solid role player.

I 100% agree he has improved, my stance is he could've likely signed on somewhere as a FA. Or at worst, could've done 1 year in the D league and worked on his game. For as much as Zo gets blasted about lack of development and not putting Stokes in position to succeed, wouldn't Stokes have possibly improved MORE had he been somewhere else this season? And he would be getting paid?
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His only realistic options last year were D-league or Europe. He has realistic shot of making a roster now IMO.

His development hasn't been hindered by Martin. Stokes limitations were genetic, not coaching related IMO.
 
#265
#265
BigZiti09 said:
His only realistic options last year were D-league or Europe. He has realistic shot of making a roster now IMO.

His development hasn't been hindered by Martin. Stokes limitations were genetic, not coaching related IMO.
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Disagree a little there. Not having Stokes face up with a little room from game 1 held him back. Another example is the last 17 minutes of last game. Coach's job is to put players in spots where they are most successful and CM continues to throw him down on the low block, while Stokes has more success and ability to finish in various ways while facing up.
 
#266
#266
Spartacavolus said:
Disagree a little there. Not having Stokes face up with a little room from game 1 held him back. Another example is the last 17 minutes of last game. Coach's job is to put players in spots where they are most successful and CM continues to throw him down on the low block, while Stokes has more success and ability to finish in various ways while facing up.
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This isn't a video game where cuonzo controls his every move. Stokes caught the ball plenty in the mid range and if he wanted to face up he could have. I just don't think he was comfortable with those skills early on in the year.
 
#267
#267
Spartacavolus said:
Disagree a little there. Not having Stokes face up with a little room from game 1 held him back. Another example is the last 17 minutes of last game. Coach's job is to put players in spots where they are most successful and CM continues to throw him down on the low block, while Stokes has more success and ability to finish in various ways while facing up.
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Agree with that.
 
#268
#268
Bruce Wayne said:
This isn't a video game where cuonzo controls his every move. Stokes caught the ball plenty in the mid range and if he wanted to face up he could have. I just don't think he was comfortable with those skills early on in the year.
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What does a video game have anything to do with either getting stokes the ball facing up on the wing or at the elbow, vs getting it to him with his back to the basket against taller players? That's coaching. And stokes has from day 1 been more comfortable facing the bucket than having his back to it while a double team is made easy.
 
#269
#269
All I know is.....Martin lives right off of Kingston Pike so at least it won't be difficult when he moves his stuff out to get on the road and hit 75 or 40. At least he didn't go all Derrick Dooley and Bruce Pearl when he bought his home.
 
#272
#272
I think given we've all sat through Derek Dooley and Todd Raleigh, we all know when it's time to make a change.

I'll go ahead and say I think Martin should be gone even if we're 1 and done in the NCAAT; especially if it's a beatdown.
 
#273
#273
VolsSportsFan said:
I think given we've all sat through Derek Dooley and Todd Raleigh, we all know when it's time to make a change.

I'll go ahead and say I think Martin should be gone even if we're 1 and done in the NCAAT; especially if it's a beatdown.
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I agree with this, I'm pretty sure most of us have seen enough to know he's not the answer. The team getting on a little run and getting in the tourney, doesn't mean Zo can suddenly coach.
 
#275
#275
Had he not called the timeout and the shot had missed, people would be *****ing because he didn't call a timeout. lmao Hindsight is so easy to see what the correct call should have been . All that was needed was to make one damn foul shot. I guess that is Martin's fault also.
 
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