Pope's remarks

#1
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allvol123

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#1
Evidently the Pope made some remarks linking Islam with violent behavior.

In protest Muslims rioted, burned and exploded things.:)
 
#4
#4
I heard that he was quoting a scholar or religious leader from a few centurys ago. I also heard he made it very clear a few times over that he was quoting someone.

Many of the people in the mostly muslim countries are illiterate, and will believe anything they are told.
 
#5
#5
Many of the people in the mostly muslim countries are illiterate, and will believe anything they are told.
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*Refrains from making a generalized statement about democrats...........:whistling:
Oh wait, I may have already done so............:eek:k:
 
#6
#6
I guess Popeatine doesn't remember The Crusades. :dunno:

what a stupid thing to say the divide the religions more than they already are
 
#8
#8
What did the Pope say?

In a nutshell, this:

"It is wrong to use violence to promote the spread of religion."

Yes, gentle readers, that's it - that's all.

To illustrate his point he quoted a conversation involving a 14th Century Emperor of Byzantium and a Persian during one of the Muslim efforts to seize the city.

The Emperor, one Manuel II Paleologus, said this:

In the seventh conversation, edited by Professor Khoury, the emperor touches on the theme of the holy war. The emperor must have known that surah 2, 256 reads: "There is no compulsion in religion". According to the experts, this is one of the suras of the early period, when Mohammed was still powerless and under threat. But naturally the emperor also knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Qur'an, concerning holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the "Book" and the "infidels", he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached". (emphasis added)
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Now this (supposedly) is the sentence that got the RoP'ers panties in a wad. The Pope was using a quote from 600 years ago!!!

The emperor then adds:

God", he says, "is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats... To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death...".
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Go ye and read the Holy Father's speech in its entirety:
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html

The Religion of the Perpetually Outraged has proceeded thence to prove the Pope's point in spades.

Reasoned responses from the RoP:

capt.sri10209151139.india_kashmir_pope_protest_sri102.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...1811&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=NEWS&ct=5

Oh, and these brave soldiers (or their colleagues) of Mohammed shot a 75 year old nun in the back of the head in Somalia.

The New York times is in high dudgeon, insisting that B-16 apologize for being right. I guess they want him to apologize for the nun being in Somalia in the first place as well.

Oh, and various Muslim "clerics" have issued fatwahs calling for the assassination of the Pope. As one of the resident mackelrel-snappers here, I take threats from the RoP against the Holy Father VERY seriously. After all, JPII wasn't shot in 1981 by a Methodist.

I've had it with the lot.
 
#9
#9
if a muslim leader quoted something disparaging about catholics, you all know full well there would be the same outcry. burning an effigy has been something that has been going on for millenia so don't get all up in arms because someone in a turban with a beard does it.
 
#10
#10
emainvol said:
if a muslim leader quoted something disparaging about catholics, you all know full well there would be the same outcry. burning an effigy has been something that has been going on for millenia so don't get all up in arms because someone in a turban with a beard does it.
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Yes, because we Catholics violently rioted in response to the Met Exhibit of the Blessed Mary with elephant dung thrown on her...
 
#11
#11
emainvol said:
if a muslim leader quoted something disparaging about catholics, you all know full well there would be the same outcry. burning an effigy has been something that has been going on for millenia so don't get all up in arms because someone in a turban with a beard does it.
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Uh huh, and a Notre Dame student would shoot some 70+ Muslim grandma.

READ THE FRIGGIN' NYT EDITORIAL.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/16/opinion/16sat2.html?ex=1316059200&en=55dd46982dc29167&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

The whole thing disparages Catholics in general and this pontiff in particular. The Muslims are just poor misunderstood folk who only desire to be allowed to carry out their grisly pursuits without some figure with moral authority reminding the world it doesn't have to be this way.

A doctrinal conservative, his greatest fear appears to be the loss of a uniform Catholic identity, not exactly the best jumping-off point for tolerance or interfaith dialogue.
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Yeah, that whole "One, holy, catholic and apostolic church" thing is just getting in the way.

To the learned dhimmies editorial staff of the Gray Lady I say this: Bite me.

Nobody has called to Pinch Schulzberger's head on a pole, yet.
 
#12
#12
TheGimp said:
I guess Popeatine doesn't remember The Crusades. :dunno:

what a stupid thing to say the divide the religions more than they already are
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You should have probably actually read the speech first. Second, I am quite positive that the Pope (not 'Popeatine') is considerably more educated in the Crusades than you are. I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that the extent of your education concerning the Crusades is threefold: 10 pages in your college Western Civ text book, the movie Kingdom of Heaven, and a History Channel program "covering" the Crusades.

Please, prove me wrong.
 
#13
#13
OneManGang said:
Uh huh, and a Notre Dame student would shoot some 70+ Muslim grandma.

READ THE FRIGGIN' NYT EDITORIAL.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/16/opinion/16sat2.html?ex=1316059200&en=55dd46982dc29167&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

The whole thing disparages Catholics in general and this pontiff in particular. The Muslims are just poor misunderstood folk who only desire to be allowed to carry out their grisly pursuits without some figure with moral authority reminding the world it doesn't have to be this way.



Yeah, that whole "One, holy, catholic and apostolic church" thing is just getting in the way.

To the learned dhimmies editorial staff of the Gray Lady I say this: Bite me.

Nobody has called to Pinch Schulzberger's head on a pole, yet.
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ahem, when you wake up and realize there are bad muslims and good muslims, you go ahead and fire back at me.

and since when was schulzberger a muslim leader?
 
#14
#14
emainvol said:
ahem, when you wake up and realize there are bad muslims and good muslims, you go ahead and fire back at me.

and since when was schulzberger a muslim leader?
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I will fire back concerning your earlier remark. Historically, when was the last time a collection of Catholics conducted violent reprisals at the mere commentary from any figure?
 
#16
#16
I haven't seen any Southern Baptists burning Rosie O'Donnell in effigy after her "radical Christian" comment the other day. She wasn't quoting some 14th century monarch - she was telling us her true feelings!

Look, Rosie and Pinch (now THERE'S a combo deluxe) have a perfect right in this country to make whatever political comment they want - just as I have a perfect right to call them on it. I may write a nasty LTE to Pinch and the boys, or send an e-mail to Baba Wawa's sponsors pointing out that Rosie's comments will cause me to reconsider purchasing their products, but I'm not going to set anything afire over it.

The Pope is absolutely correct. To say otherwise ENDORSES the use of force to spread a religion.

emain, which side are YOU on?
 
#17
#17
emainvol said:
ahem, when you wake up and realize there are bad muslims and good muslims, you go ahead and fire back at me.

and since when was schulzberger a muslim leader?
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While we are on this topic...why do the "good muslims" remain totally silent and do NOTHING to denounce radical Islam??? Show us a public statement or campaign of any significance led by a cleric that denounces the acts of radical Islam and calls for an end to the violence. Show us anything saying that there should be religeous tolerance. Head Tax, convert to Islam or die--all these are in the Koran and are being exploited by the radicals. That cannot be denied.
 
#18
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therealUT said:
I will fire back concerning your earlier remark. Historically, when was the last time a collection of Catholics conducted violent reprisals at the mere commentary from any figure?
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that's fine, i understand that point, but everytime i see a post like this, it seems like there are 3 or 4 people that imply this is a problem with islam. it's not, it's a problem with RADICAL islam.
 
#19
#19
emainvol said:
that's fine, i understand that point, but everytime i see a post like this, it seems like there are 3 or 4 people that imply this is a problem with islam. it's not, it's a problem with RADICAL islam.
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I agree that most Muslims, at least most I have encountered, are interested in pursuing peace. However, they are also not in the least bit interested in taking a stand against the individuals that overwhelmingly cast their religion in a negative light. Not even many Imams and Sheiks have made public outcries or pleas against terrorism.
 
#20
#20
therealUT said:
I agree that most Muslims, at least most I have encountered, are interested in pursuing peace. However, they are also not in the least bit interested in taking a stand against the individuals that overwhelmingly cast their religion in a negative light. Not even many Imams and Sheiks have made public outcries or pleas against terrorism.
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Percentage how would you break down people that practive Islam?

What percentage are all out ready to kill the "infidels"

What percentage, while not like the above, are more than happy to keep their mouths shut while the above percentage goes about its business?

What percentage are peaceful people readily open to living with people of differernt views?
 
#21
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emainvol said:
if a muslim leader quoted something disparaging about catholics, you all know full well there would be the same outcry. burning an effigy has been something that has been going on for millenia so don't get all up in arms because someone in a turban with a beard does it.
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Regardless of your response about all Muslims and some Muslims, you still have not justified this response.
 
#22
#22
OneManGang said:
I haven't seen any Southern Baptists burning Rosie O'Donnell in effigy after her "radical Christian" comment the other day. She wasn't quoting some 14th century monarch - she was telling us her true feelings!

Look, Rosie and Pinch (now THERE'S a combo deluxe) have a perfect right in this country to make whatever political comment they want - just as I have a perfect right to call them on it. I may write a nasty LTE to Pinch and the boys, or send an e-mail to Baba Wawa's sponsors pointing out that Rosie's comments will cause me to reconsider purchasing their products, but I'm not going to set anything afire over it.

The Pope is absolutely correct. To say otherwise ENDORSES the use of force to spread a religion.

emain, which side are YOU on?
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the less inflamatory one. his comments were completely irresponsible. if people would shut the hell up, there would be a lot less problems in the world. I believe it, whether or not anyone agrees with me.

to imply that I am in any way, shape, or form in agreeance with radical islamics is also completely irresponsible. I have my feelings on a subject, and just because in you cannot comprehend anyone believing the contrary of your own, does not make my opinions endorsements of terrorism.

and for the record, there have been plenty of examples of people trying to force religion on other people, coincidentally enough, a lot of them involved catholics in one way or another. how bout the crusades? the spanish inquisition? read the bible, it's chock full of violence in the name of religion.

and yes, you have every right to call anyone out when you disagree with them, much like my right to call you out when you decide you have me pegged as a terrorist sympathizer. honestly i think you are bright, but that was just stupid
 
#23
#23
therealUT said:
Regardless of your response about all Muslims and some Muslims, you still have not justified this response.
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speaking out against one's religion is one of the quickest ways to tick them off, i don't blame the more sane muslims for burning effigies. i however believe that violence related to the matter is absolutely shameful (which is an understatement.) if and when a muslim leader makes comments about the catholic church in a very public arena, such as the pope did, i do believe there will be outcry from the church.
 
#24
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emainvol said:
if a muslim leader quoted something disparaging about catholics, you all know full well there would be the same outcry.
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im sorry, it was a poor choice of words, if you take out the words "the same" i think we could all agree.
 
#25
#25
emainvol said:
speaking out against one's religion is one of the quickest ways to tick them off, i don't blame the more sane muslims for burning effigies. i however believe that violence related to the matter is absolutely shameful (which is an understatement.) if and when a muslim leader makes comments about the catholic church in a very public arena, such as the pope did, i do believe there will be outcry from the church.
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Wow, that one is almost off the charts. So what do the insane ones do?
 
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