Post Maui Thoughts

#27
#27
NighthawkVol said:
One of many ways life mirrors sports. Appreciate your level-headedness.
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I have to admit, it is pretty comical knowing that after a loss I can come to these boards and watch the meltdown. Some people just don't get it.

It's true though, sometimes you gain more from losing than winning
 
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#29
#29
cncchris33 said:
Clearly we have some issues to be worked on. I want to bear in mind that we lost to the #1 and #2 teams in the country, and both have KenPom top-5ish defenses. We may have faced the two best big men in all of the country in a span of less than 24 hours. So in all of the emotion of losing two games, those are things to consider as we think back on these losses.

1. We have a rebounding problem. After dominating Syracuse on the glass, we got owned by Purdue (44-31, 17-10 ORebs) and Kansas (45-35). Tobe Awaka had 2 rebounds in 3 games. That’s a problem given it is his greatest strength and quality. His size is showing up as an issue against these bigger 5s, which isn’t surprising. He also hasn’t really improved his ability to defend without fouling. Aidoo rebounded better against KU, but for a guy his size, we need him to be more active on the glass.

2. Our offense just doesn’t make much of an effort to get buckets at the rim. It feels like every point we scored in these last two games was earned the hard way. Nothing seems to come easy for this team the way it does KU and Purdue, and not just Dickinson and Edey. KU had the floater game working well today. We just don’t get anything easy going at the rim. We also refuse to push the ball in transition, which only further emphasizes our inability to score in the paint. At one point vs KU, we had a 4 on 2 break and backed out for a 3-pt shot, which was one of the few that we hit. But we had other opportunities to push the ball and get to the rim or force a foul and just settled for backing out and getting into our offense, which was far too often dribble dribble pass for 20 seconds and shoot a 3.

3. Shot selection…we take a lot of bad, low percentage shots. 18-ft jumpers are bad shots, no matter who shoots them, but there is a reason no one guards Aidoo that far out. They want him taking that shot. Gainey passes up several 3s to take an 18-ft jumper. Bad shot! We just don’t seem to run a lot of set plays to get someone a look going to the basket. Our collection of guards is elite, but if they are not hitting shots from outside, we do not seem to adjust to finding better looks.

4. Second-chance points. This goes hand in hand with the rebounding problem, but we almost always only get one look on offense. Given the number of shots we take from outside, we should do a better job a grabbing long rebounds where our lack of size doesn’t necessarily come into play.

5. The Point Guard position is a problem. Zeigler is hurting his team on offense. 14 points, 8 assists, and 11 TOs in three games isn’t going to cut it. He’s still not 100%, so that is to be considered, but he can’t play as much as he did and not be more efficient. 4-22 shooting and 1-12 from 3 is damaging. Gainey was marginally better. 30 points, 5 assists, and 4 TOs on 9-32 shooting and 6-19 from 3. Mashack doesn’t provide much in the traditional sense as a PG, and his stats reflect that, so it isn’t perhaps fair to judge him on that. But he was definitely the most efficient of the three. 17 points, 3 assists, and 2 TOs on 6-14 shooting (0-1 from 3). None of them are doing a great job of being a facilitator of the offense, but I’m not real sure what the design of our offense is, right now.

These are the things that stand out as room for improvement. We were exposed by a couple good teams in some areas. Let’s just hope we can adjust and make changes that show up in March.
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Very reasonable critique.
 
#32
#32
Smokey7 said:
James is way underproductive. Needs to become more aggressive.
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He's gonna sign a 5 year extension in the offseason and we are gonna be saying the same thing about him in year 10. He is just never gonna be that. Yeah, he looks the part against bad teams but he has no threat on offense against good teams.
 
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#33
#33
This tournament doesn’t mean anything since we did not get upset. The only thing that could hurt us from this is if the teams who beat us lose in the near future.
 
#34
#34
Awaka and Aidoo need to improve.

PGs missing 3 pointers consistently.

I think the Vols have a lot of potential. They just need to put it all together. Easier said than done.

Overall, the Vols looked pretty good with a couple of weak spots to work on.
 
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#35
#35
Smokey7 said:
James is way underproductive. Needs to become more aggressive.
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I couldn't agree more. This team needs low post scoring. He has the size and ability to provide that, but he stays out around the three point line. He could drive it or post up if he had that mentality. But, he's been that way since he's been here. I guess the coaches are ok with it because they allow him to do it.
 
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#36
#36
camp_steveo said:
Awaka and Aidoo need to improve.

PGs missing 3 pointers consistently.

I think the Vols have a lot of potential. They just need to put it all together. Easier said than done.

Overall, the Vols looked pretty good with a couple of weak spots to work on.
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Awaka and Aidoo need to provide more. I know they're limited offensively, but they need to at least get some offensive rebounds and putbacks. If they can't CRB may need to give Estrella and Phillips more minutes to see what they can provide. Wings could do a better job of driving into the paint and finishing too. Need more points in the paint.
 
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#37
#37
1. Small ball with JJJ at the 4. This os going to be an issue as long as we go small. Not to mention we just played the 2 best big men in the country.

2. I feel like we drive some, get fouled, and don’t get the call. Everybody stays outside the paint after that. Also again 2 really good defenses cut driving lanes off as well.

3. Could not agree more. Especially with Gainey. They will get him acclimated at some
point though. Also, when they aren’t getting calls, they will hoist up some bad shots.

4. I think this is because of the first 3 points. Small ball, everybody outside the paint and not knowing when and where shots are coming from. JM and SV were probably our best offensive rebounders.

5. ZZ will get there. Just gonna take time. 3 games in 50 hours plus playing 2 of the best teams in the country is going to be hard for anybody, much less a guy trying to come back from an acl.
 
#38
#38
I had a feeling we would fade in the second half today. Yes Kansas had a 90 minute shorter turn around. However they didn’t play in a physically demanding battle like we did.

Secondly, we are just starting to gel as a team. There are things I wish we would do more. Post entry passes when the jump shots aren’t falling. Drive to the basket to draw a foul and finish.

Mashack and Awaka impressed me the most this tournament. Yes Awaka needs to rebound better but what he did against Edey with a hurt ankle, was impressive. It won’t show up in the box score but it was big. The kid isn’t scared. Mashack is about to grow before our eyes.

Dalton needs to be more consistent and be a go to scoring leader. Demand the ball and clear out. SV should see massively reduced minutes. Bad fouls, bad turnovers, out of control when he drives, has a hard time hitting shots right now. ZZ is great defensively but turns the ball over a lot too. He needs to spend the holidays in the gym shooting. Aidoo has to be way more aggressive on offense attacking the rim.

This is Rick Barnes most talented team since being at Tennessee. Deepest too. We have a legit Final 4 team. Let’s see how CRB does with this group.
 
#39
#39
smoltie29`` said:
Awaka and Aidoo need to provide more. I know they're limited offensively, but they need to at least get some offensive rebounds and putbacks. If they can't CRB may need to give Estrella and Phillips more minutes to see what they can provide. Wings could do a better job of driving into the paint and finishing too. Need more points in the paint.
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I would love to see Estrella and Phillips get more minutes.
 
#40
#40
I’ll start by saying this, I think this team is pretty good. However, they were pretty good last year also. I just don’t know how anyone thinks the shots are magically going to start to fall when it matters. Acting like we were just unlucky the last two nights couldn’t be further from the truth. This is a trend that has been going on the last 3-4 years. The reality of the situation is, you only have 2-3 guys in the current rotation that are not offensively challenged (Knecht, Gainey, Vescovi). It took Vescovi several games to get his feet under him and figure out his role. Gainey also has a tendency to get cold and just continue trying to shoot out of a slump. I could go without seeing ZZ shoot another three forever. Obviously rebounding continues to be an issue. Have to continue to be a defense first team and hope we get lucky with matchups in March. It is what it is. Silver lining so far, Knecht has made the games much more fun to watch from a viewing standpoint.
 
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#43
#43
A lot of missed shots at the rim, we obviously have problems with big centers. Overall, I thought we played well but shooting was off
 
#46
#46
I think the Vols just need to get more skilled offensive players. Maybe there are in freshmen on the bench. It seems like so many of Barnes' players are gritty, hard nosed players, but aren't very skilled offensively. Of course Dalton and Gainey help, but the previous year's players just don't seem to be able to provide any offensive juice, aside from Vescovi and James here and there.
 
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#47
#47
I'll add this too, I still believe the court confused the players. I have no other explanation about them always using the NBA three point line. I watch several of them specifically step back and square their toes on the NBA line. I honestly believe they thought the floor was marked for men's/women's. I never saw a single time in three days, anyone square at the actual three point line to shoot.
 
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#48
#48
Chaz-Vol said:
2 biggest takeaways are rebounding is really an issue. Aidoo getting 2 RBs as starting center yesterday is killer. ZZ needs to be on minutes restriction in favor of Mashack. ZZ is such a liability right now that playing Mashack at least is huge advantage on D plus better driver and finisher at rim.

Really a brutal early schedule but will give a lot for CRB to learn about and fix in November instead of March.
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I agree. This should pay dividends all season long, but especially come March. We've already played (with) the best.
 
#49
#49
cncchris33 said:
Clearly we have some issues to be worked on. I want to bear in mind that we lost to the #1 and #2 teams in the country, and both have KenPom top-5ish defenses. We may have faced the two best big men in all of the country in a span of less than 24 hours. So in all of the emotion of losing two games, those are things to consider as we think back on these losses.

1. We have a rebounding problem. After dominating Syracuse on the glass, we got owned by Purdue (44-31, 17-10 ORebs) and Kansas (45-35). Tobe Awaka had 2 rebounds in 3 games. That’s a problem given it is his greatest strength and quality. His size is showing up as an issue against these bigger 5s, which isn’t surprising. He also hasn’t really improved his ability to defend without fouling. Aidoo rebounded better against KU, but for a guy his size, we need him to be more active on the glass.

2. Our offense just doesn’t make much of an effort to get buckets at the rim. It feels like every point we scored in these last two games was earned the hard way. Nothing seems to come easy for this team the way it does KU and Purdue, and not just Dickinson and Edey. KU had the floater game working well today. We just don’t get anything easy going at the rim. We also refuse to push the ball in transition, which only further emphasizes our inability to score in the paint. At one point vs KU, we had a 4 on 2 break and backed out for a 3-pt shot, which was one of the few that we hit. But we had other opportunities to push the ball and get to the rim or force a foul and just settled for backing out and getting into our offense, which was far too often dribble dribble pass for 20 seconds and shoot a 3.

3. Shot selection…we take a lot of bad, low percentage shots. 18-ft jumpers are bad shots, no matter who shoots them, but there is a reason no one guards Aidoo that far out. They want him taking that shot. Gainey passes up several 3s to take an 18-ft jumper. Bad shot! We just don’t seem to run a lot of set plays to get someone a look going to the basket. Our collection of guards is elite, but if they are not hitting shots from outside, we do not seem to adjust to finding better looks.

4. Second-chance points. This goes hand in hand with the rebounding problem, but we almost always only get one look on offense. Given the number of shots we take from outside, we should do a better job a grabbing long rebounds where our lack of size doesn’t necessarily come into play.

5. The Point Guard position is a problem. Zeigler is hurting his team on offense. 14 points, 8 assists, and 11 TOs in three games isn’t going to cut it. He’s still not 100%, so that is to be considered, but he can’t play as much as he did and not be more efficient. 4-22 shooting and 1-12 from 3 is damaging. Gainey was marginally better. 30 points, 5 assists, and 4 TOs on 9-32 shooting and 6-19 from 3. Mashack doesn’t provide much in the traditional sense as a PG, and his stats reflect that, so it isn’t perhaps fair to judge him on that. But he was definitely the most efficient of the three. 17 points, 3 assists, and 2 TOs on 6-14 shooting (0-1 from 3). None of them are doing a great job of being a facilitator of the offense, but I’m not real sure what the design of our offense is, right now.

These are the things that stand out as room for improvement. We were exposed by a couple good teams in some areas. Let’s just hope we can adjust and make changes that show up in March.
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Agree with all of this. For the season we are shooting a combined 40% from the field. That will flat just not get it done. We have had a number of anemic offensives during his tenure, but none shot worse then 42%. 40% is terrible. Barnes said during pre-season we have more depth then ever and we want to play up-tempo but when we get into the grind it turns into a half-court game and we play 8 guys. Rinse/repeat...we have heard this and seen this all before. We are going to struggle mightily in the half court when shots aren't falling. Given we don't have any post presence and have very few players who can drive the ball and finish, it is up to Barnes to put the players into better positions to score. Nothing looks easy in the half-court and ball movement too often slows. We aren't moving without the ball well enough and rarely cut hard to the basket or fill the lane if someone drives to the bucket.

Knecht had several shots right at the rim that just didn't fall today (and two of them I thought he may have been fouled) but I'm not worried about him. Just a bad day for him scoring. Gainey takes some poor shots at times but I can live with him having a green light too. Aidoo will never be effective in the post. He is better at high post and rolling to the bucket. Awaka needs alot more minutes because he has shown some ability to post and at least he is active. Due to problems on the boards against big teams, we very well may need to play him and Aidoo on the court together and rotate Estrella and Phillips in more often. James had two rough offensive outings and we all know he won't drive the ball, but he is big and strong enough to post up opposing wings, but Barnes rarely runs a play for him. He turnaround fade away jumper in the lane at least is a high % shot. When Vescovi drives he isn't a threat to score unless it is a wide-open layup. He struggles to create, yet we are asking him to create. Mashack can drive but he struggles to finish, but I think we need to encourage him to keep attacking the rim. Losing Dilione's potential to create offense may hurt us more than we think. How to manage Zeigler and what to ask him to do is a big issue. He isn't a threat to score from anywhere currently and his turnover ratio isn't good for the reduced minutes he is playing.

This group can be very good, if everyone just simply plays up to their potential and knows their roles. We don't look like we know what we are doing on the offensive end and the shooting woes confirm it. Barnes is expecting them to work it out on the court and believes the shots will start falling. He really needs to coach a bit more on that end of the court. We shouldn't be struggling this much to score.
 
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#50
#50
BradstarVols said:
I think the Vols just need to get more skilled offensive players. Maybe there are in freshmen on the bench. It seems like so many of Barnes' players are gritty, hard nosed players, but aren't very skilled offensively. Of course Dalton and Gainey help, but the previous year's players just don't seem to be able to provide any offensive juice, aside from Vescovi and James here and there.
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I’ve felt this for years.
Barnes is our coach. I dont want a different coach.
I love him.

But I think his recruiting profile values athleticism + length over offensive skill. I think it’s just the way he recruits.
 
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