Potential BCS antitrust case (merged)

#201
#201
milohimself said:
That's fine, but there is no such thing as a system worse than one in which a team can go undefeated and wind up only with a cookie and a consolation bowl game.
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Why should a school get rewarded for playing 10 God-awful teams and 2 decent ones?
 
#203
#203
I hate the BCS. Makes no sense to me that the NCAA would let the champion of its most popular sport be decided in a way they don't control. That being said i don't want it to become like what they have done to men's hoops. Where you can win the conference in the regular season and then not make the tourney but thats another conversation. Now personally i think either the BCS should be all inclusive or it should not exist. Its supposed to crown a champion for the FBS so all FBS schools should be apart of it. When you bring up a playoff the first thing people say is you would be diminishing the regular season, I say to that how? A 4 or 8 team playoff would still mean you have to win every game. But it would allow a team that had a stumble to redeem themselves. Not every BCS champ was undefeated. An 8 team playoff based on the BCS rankings would be mostly teams that are unbeaten or with one loss. I don't see why that's a problem since 2 loss teams have won it under this current system. Now i myself am a fan of a 16 team playoff. I already said that i'm all for inclusion so i think every conference champ should have a shot. Leaving 5 at large bids for the highest ranked teams that don't AQ. Seeding could still be done by the BCS formula. Higher ranked seeds host the first round. 2nd round goes to the 2nd tier bowls (with the Fiesta in limbo it would go here). The final 4 and championship would rotate between the Orange, Rose and Sugar. Its not a perfect plan but i think it would be the most fair.
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#208
#208
milohimself said:
We can delve into patronizing comments if you'd like, but I'd prefer not to. Yes, I know what anti-competitive conduct is. Yes, I know what barriers to entry are. Yes, I have looked up anti-trust case studies to compare it to how the BCS works. Yes, I believe there is a very good chance that the BCS will be dissolved or changed.
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Actually, not patronizing at all. Only asking a question.

Anti trust laws are there to protect the consumer, not the competitors. The consumers are you, me, and all the rest of the cfb fans but not the schools. Burger King cant sue McDonalds because they did something to hurt BK's bottom line. Same thing here - non BCS schools cant sue because the BCS is hurting the bottom line. You have to prove that we consumers are getting financially hurt. Do we have to pay more if a BCS team plays for a NC than a non BCS team? Are ticket prices higher/lower? Is our cable bill higher/lower? Problem is that with the creation of the BCS attendance is higher, viewership is higher, revenues are higher, and payouts to everyone is higher including non BCS schools. Consumers havent been effected therefore no anti trust.

And just because the TCU and Boise's cant get into the BCS doesnt mean its a monolopy either. There's nothing prohibiting them from starting their own group and creating anything they want but they havent. Plus, you cant 'force' the BCS to take anyone just like Knoxville cant force the NFL to take a team they created or Honolulu cant force the NHL to take a team. Again, the anti trust/monolopy thought will be gone quicker then your laugh.

IMO, this whole letter from the DoJ was probably initiated by the BCS/NCAA to put to rest these lame attempts at an anti trust lawsuit. The wording of the questions are such softball throws that either the NCAA/BCS wrote them theirself or the DoJ are complete idiots and have failed to even look into the business portion of cfb. Take the question "what has the NCAA done to create a playoff". The NCAA has done nothing because that's not the role of the NCAA. Their role is to oversee the entire enterprise but all decisions are controlled by the presidents and chancellors of the schools. A majority of the presidents/chancellors indicate they dont want a playoff. The NCAA cant impliment squat. The DoJ would know this by simpling going to NCAA.org and looking at the bylaws.

Again, all this controversy is an attempt by the media to stir up viewership in a dead period of time. There is no anti trust/monolopy. Sorry if you dont like the system but that doesnt make it any more a monolopy.
 
#210
#210
therealUT said:
Exactly. And, Boise and TCU were not very proactive nor aggressive in trying to get into either the PAC-10 or Big XII last summer...
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Boise wants no part of being in a big time conference. The academic requirements of the PAC-12 would absolutely kill their recruiting.

TCU got into the Big East, which is a terrible conference but it has an automatic berth.
 
#212
#212
boise had the option of traveling and didn't do it. they wanted home and homes which is ridiculous. they have only themselves to blame.
 
#213
#213
justingroves said:
Boise wants no part of being in a big time conference. The academic requirements of the PAC-12 would absolutely kill their recruiting.

TCU got into the Big East, which is a terrible conference but it has an automatic berth.
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There is much, much more to getting into a major conference than football success. The pac12 would never have them. Boise state makes Oregon state and Arizona state look like Stanford and Columbia.

Re: their schedules, mid majors don't have a shot to play more than maybe one legit team a season, almost always on the road and that's still not enough to get in the drivers seat to the BCSMNCG.

I can't believe there are any bcs apologists left. The sanctity of the regular season argument is bs unless it's a 16 team playoff. Even with the plus one or a basic 4 team playoff, if a team loses one game theyve probably screwed themselves out of a title shot which is the way it already is.

I don't give a flying fudge if were talking about Troy in the sun belt, if a mid major wins every conference game, I'd rather see them wiped out by bama annually rather than be given a gold star and a bid to the gmac bowl.

One way is determined by a bunch of flaming idiot writers and coaches who don't watch games, the other is determined by a football game (what a novel concept!)

Will respond to greveheller when im at a comp.
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#214
#214
tvolsfan said:
That doesn't make sense. They should have to prove they aren't a fraud to make the championship game, not the other way around.
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TCU proved non-fraudulent in every game last season and earned only a cookie and a pat on the back.
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#215
#215
milohimself said:
There is much, much more to getting into a major conference than football success. The pac12 would never have them. Boise state makes Oregon state and Arizona state look like Stanford and Columbia.

Re: their schedules, mid majors don't have a shot to play more than maybe one legit team a season, almost always on the road and that's still not enough to get in the drivers seat to the BCSMNCG.

I can't believe there are any bcs apologists left. The sanctity of the regular season argument is bs unless it's a 16 team playoff. Even with the plus one or a basic 4 team playoff, if a team loses one game theyve probably screwed themselves out of a title shot which is the way it already is.

I don't give a flying fudge if were talking about Troy in the sun belt, if a mid major wins every conference game, I'd rather see them wiped out by bama annually rather than be given a gold star and a bid to the gmac bowl.

One way is determined by a bunch of flaming idiot writers and coaches who don't watch games, the other is determined by a football game (what a novel concept!)

Will respond to greveheller when im at a comp.
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All you had to say was 16 team playoff to see you dont understand.

When its more important to fill spots, ie your 16 team playoff, instead of ensuring the best teams play, it doesnt matter what the rest of the whine is. Its a moot point. You're not crowning a true champion. All it does it set out a 2nd season in a single elemination event. Nothing to do with the best team in the country. All with who is the luckiest team. Why not give out participation trophies to those 4 teams and a big hug.

Since everyone wants to point to 2004 as the silver bullet then take it one step further. There's no question Auburn did a great job that year with one little glitch and that being The Citdel (Okl and USC played a full D1 schedule. To give Auburn the nod over either of them would have been a complete sham.)

If there's a 4 team/+1 playoff, who is the #4 team?

#4 California (10-1)
#5 Utah (11-0)
#6 Texas (10-1)
#7 Louisville (10-1)
#10 Boise State (11-0)

So who is it? Because there's just one team that was "left out" in the BCS system. Now there's 5 teams that all have a legit claim for that 1 spot because again filling the spot is more important that ensuring the best play. Open it up to 8 teams and you've still not accomplished a thing since BSU is left out. You've caused more problems than you've helped.

In the end, its not you, me, the NCAA or the government that will change anything. Its the presidents and chancellors that will. They see one thing - the bottom line - and nothing will ever be done until money decreases and its not.

Cry somewhere else, millocyrus
 
#216
#216
GreveHaller said:
All you had to say was 16 team playoff to see you dont understand.

When its more important to fill spots, ie your 16 team playoff, instead of ensuring the best teams play, it doesnt matter what the rest of the whine is. Its a moot point. You're not crowning a true champion. All it does it set out a 2nd season in a single elemination event. Nothing to do with the best team in the country. All with who is the luckiest team. Why not give out participation trophies to those 4 teams and a big hug.

Since everyone wants to point to 2004 as the silver bullet then take it one step further. There's no question Auburn did a great job that year with one little glitch and that being The Citdel (Okl and USC played a full D1 schedule. To give Auburn the nod over either of them would have been a complete sham.)

If there's a 4 team/+1 playoff, who is the #4 team?

#4 California (10-1)
#5 Utah (11-0)
#6 Texas (10-1)
#7 Louisville (10-1)
#10 Boise State (11-0)

So who is it? Because there's just one team that was "left out" in the BCS system. Now there's 5 teams that all have a legit claim for that 1 spot because again filling the spot is more important that ensuring the best play. Open it up to 8 teams and you've still not accomplished a thing since BSU is left out. You've caused more problems than you've helped.

In the end, its not you, me, the NCAA or the government that will change anything. Its the presidents and chancellors that will. They see one thing - the bottom line - and nothing will ever be done until money decreases and its not.

Cry somewhere else, millocyrus
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So let's say Utah or Cal goes into the playoff and wins it. Utah would be the only undefeated team in the country, and Cal wouldn't have any more losses than the teams that had just lost in the playoff? So what would prevent Cal from being a "true" champion in that scenario if they win? They would have earned it and the record would point to them being the best team in the country. And if they lose? No harm done.
 
#217
#217
UTRavens said:
So let's say Utah or Cal goes into the playoff and wins it. Utah would be the only undefeated team in the country, and Cal wouldn't have any more losses than the teams that had just lost in the playoff? So what would prevent Cal from being a "true" champion in that scenario if they win? They would have earned it and the record would point to them being the best team in the country. And if they lose? No harm done.
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What exactly are you trying to argue?
 
#218
#218
One thing I would like to see changed is the long layoff. I know the bowls are tradition and all, but I don't like seeing the national championship game being played so long after the regular season.
 
#219
#219
milohimself said:
There is much, much more to getting into a major conference than football success. The pac12 would never have them. Boise state makes Oregon state and Arizona state look like Stanford and Columbia.

Re: their schedules, mid majors don't have a shot to play more than maybe one legit team a season, almost always on the road and that's still not enough to get in the drivers seat to the BCSMNCG.

I don't give a flying fudge if were talking about Troy in the sun belt, if a mid major wins every conference game, I'd rather see them wiped out by bama annually rather than be given a gold star and a bid to the gmac bowl.

One way is determined by a bunch of flaming idiot writers and coaches who don't watch games, the other is determined by a football game (what a novel concept!)

Will respond to greveheller when im at a comp.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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You think?

I've already said that.

So?

That's a great way to determine the national title.

I'd rather the "idiot writers" vote in teams with one loss than see a mid major team get raped.
 
#220
#220
justingroves said:
You think?

I've already said that.

So?

That's a great way to determine the national title.

I'd rather the "idiot writers" vote in teams with one loss than see a mid major team get raped.
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Those idiot writers are wrong a lot of the time.

Why can't you understand that a lot of these mid-major schools have proven themselves against real BCS teams multiple times? Do you choose to ignore that little tidbit?
 
#221
#221
rockytop9808 said:
Those idiot writers are wrong a lot of the time.

Why can't you understand that a lot of these mid-major schools have proven themselves against real BCS teams multiple times? Do you choose to ignore that little tidbit?
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I really don't give a damn if Boise State beats Virginia Tech.


TCU's win over Wisconsin has probably been the most convincing win for me by any of the mid majors that went unbeaten, and even that doesn't tell me they were national championship good.
 
#222
#222
tvolsfan said:
I really don't give a damn if Boise State beats Virginia Tech.


TCU's win over Wisconsin has probably been the most convincing win for me by any of the mid majors that went unbeaten, and even that doesn't tell me they were national championship good.
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How many games has Boise State lost to BCS schools in the last 5 years?

Whats the record of non-AQ schools vs. BCS schools in BCS games?

Until you get a playoff there is no way to definitively tell if these teams deserve a shot, because you leave it to opinion. There are no questions there.
 
#223
#223
tvolsfan said:
I really don't give a damn if Boise State beats Virginia Tech.


TCU's win over Wisconsin has probably been the most convincing win for me by any of the mid majors that went unbeaten, and even that doesn't tell me they were national championship good.
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Rusty as Auburn and Oregon looked in the title game, I'm not so sure TCU couldn't have beaten either team.

Getting rid of that fargin six week break between the end of the season and the title game would at least be nice.
 
#224
#224
rockytop9808 said:
How many games has Boise State lost to BCS schools in the last 5 years?

Whats the record of non-AQ schools vs. BCS schools in BCS games?

Until you get a playoff there is no way to definitively tell if these teams deserve a shot, because you leave it to opinion. There are no questions there.
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Questions do not disappear with a playoff format; they simply change.
 
#225
#225
justingroves said:
I'd rather the "idiot writers" vote in teams with one loss than see a mid major team get raped.
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It's not even a way to determine a national title, it's a meaningless bowl game between two teams who a consortium of mouth-breathing knuckle draggers (seriously, look at who is on the Harris Poll), coaches who can't be bothered to watch every big game every week, and some computers speculate might be the two best teams in the country.

And on top of that, as we're about to find out, it's probably illegal as well.

If the NBA title, which is far more predictable than cfb, were decided by a poll then we'd probably have had the Lakers vs. the Heat this year. If the World Series teams were decided via polling, then it would have been the Yankees and Phillies last year.

The BCS/former bowl system is a fargin sham in terms of determining a national champion, deserves it every single time somebody correctly uses the term "mythical" before the phrase "national championship" and that's the end of it.
 
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