Poverty in America?

#26
#26
Could one make the case that it is government intervention that allows our most impoverished citizens to live a relatively comfortable existence rather than be in completely desperate situations?
 
#27
#27
IPorange said:
Could one make the case that it is government intervention that allows our most impoverished citizens to live a relatively comfortable existence rather than be in completely desperate situations?
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Probably to some extent. The flip side is that the same intervention may perpetuate the impoverishment. Tough to know the true net effect.

I think it is clear that benefits can only go up - when any suggestion is made to reduce benefits people lose their minds. There is a natural inclination to "help" and of course it's easier to get votes by giving than be taking away.

It's a racheting effect.
 
#28
#28
We see the same problem with going to some type of universal care. There is no agreement on what the bare essential coverage should be (like there is no agreement on what bare minimum living conditions should be).

We have some that believe that all should receive the exact same HC coverage. Fine in theory but someone has to pay for it. Obamacare jacked up the minimums and I believe includes things like Viagra, fertility treatment, etc. Are these really safety net issues or are they the government has to ensure everyone is equal issues.

There are programs to provide cell phones to lower income families. Is a cell phone a safety net essential? I would say no but then I get called a heartless meany that hates the poor and loves the rich.

I could live with a form of universal care if it were set at bare minimum required HC. That will never happen though.
 
#29
#29
I feel like we should set up territories as political-economic experimentation zones. Make "states" following various systems and protocols. See how things go, after 10 years.
 
#30
#30
volinbham said:
We see the same problem with going to some type of universal care. There is no agreement on what the bare essential coverage should be (like there is no agreement on what bare minimum living conditions should be).

...

I could live with a form of universal care if it were set at bare minimum required HC. That will never happen though.
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I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. The difficulty in establishing safety net programs is drawing a hard line and sticking to it.
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#31
#31
IPorange said:
I feel like we should set up territories as political-economic experimentation zones. Make "states" following various systems and protocols. See how things go, after 10 years.
Click to expand...

i'm more for taking every billionare into the street and beating them until the poor feels better.
 
#32
#32
IPorange said:
I feel like we should set up territories as political-economic experimentation zones. Make "states" following various systems and protocols. See how things go, after 10 years.
Click to expand...

We could use US territories like Guam and the Virgin Island. Fly over the islands periodically and make sure they haven't turned into "Leaving L.A." colonies.
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#35
#35
IPorange said:
I feel like we should set up territories as political-economic experimentation zones. Make "states" following various systems and protocols. See how things go, after 10 years.
Click to expand...

I would so be down with this. This was kind of the intent of the constitution. 50 unique but united states. The federal government has done its best to homogenize them. If states were actually allowed to be different from each other then we could vote with our feet and find a place where we agree with the laws. Under the current order, we don't have that luxury. We have the basically same generic government product for everybody.

I would avoid states with (but I'm sure these points would appeal to others):

- drug restrictions
- no abortion (I disagree with it, but the unintended consequences of prohibition are worse, IMO)
- no prostitution
- heavy economic regulation
- state income tax
- state property tax
- large public education budgets
- no voucher system
- large union presence among state employees
- collective bargaining period
- death penalty
- minimum wage
- anti-immigration

The point is I would find something closer to my ideal, and so would you. It bothers me that "diversity" is supposedly a sought-after ideal and the federal government seems to be hellbent on homogenizing the US.
 
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#36
#36
IPorange said:
I feel like we should set up territories as political-economic experimentation zones. Make "states" following various systems and protocols. See how things go, after 10 years.
Click to expand...


Thunderdome style?

Actually, I believe this is what the founders had in mind - Feds for the big stuff (e.g. defense; last bastion of the courts) and States for taking care of the citizenry as the citizenry sees fit.
 
#37
#37
nbakerld said:
I agree that is the most frustrating aspect, but it also frustrates me that people have no perspective. The American poor are part of the richest 80% of the world and the richest 99% in world history. Basically what I'm saying is 99% of human beings that ever existed would not feel "sorry" for the American poor in 2011.
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But they are used by politicians who preach that they should feel sorry for themselves.
 
#38
#38
nbakerld said:
My wife and I have qualified as impoverished for the last 4 years (no longer in 2011). I took one grant for $2500 last fall to finish school, and didn't go to government for anything else (and really didn't turn much to family or friends either). We didn't want for anything.
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Need a job?
 
#39
#39
IPorange said:
I feel like we should set up territories as political-economic experimentation zones. Make "states" following various systems and protocols. See how things go, after 10 years.
Click to expand...

We once did... it was called federalism. It died when the Progressive era began about 100 years ago.
 
#40
#40
dreVol said:
I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. The difficulty in establishing safety net programs is drawing a hard line and sticking to it.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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There is always a vote that can be bought with one more tax payer dollar. Crazy as it seems... politicians are about as effective at buying a person's vote with their own tax dollars as with someone else's.
 
#41
#41
nbakerld said:
I would so be down with this. This was kind of the intent of the constitution. 50 unique but united states. The federal government has done its best to homogenize them. If states were actually allowed to be different from each other then we could vote with our feet and find a place where we agree with the laws. Under the current order, we don't have that luxury.
Click to expand...
Watch out. I basically said the same thing in another thread earlier... you are on the "fringe" of being identified with the TP with all this original intent talk.
 
#42
#42
nbakerld said:
I would avoid states with (but I'm sure these points would appeal to others):

- drug restrictions
- no abortion (I disagree with it, but the unintended consequences of prohibition are worse, IMO)
- no prostitution
- heavy economic regulation
- state income tax
- state property tax
- large public education budgets
- no voucher system
- large union presence among state employees
- collective bargaining period
- death penalty
- minimum wage
- anti-immigration

The point is I would find something closer to my ideal, and so would you. It bothers me that "diversity" is supposedly a sought-after ideal and the federal government seems to be hellbent on homogenizing the US.
Click to expand...

I am about to scare you to death... I would look for the same except for abortion. I think the right to live must be first priority. However if they would pass a clear law saying that life begins (and abortion ends) at... heartbeat/brainwave/10 weeks/1 week/2 weeks/1 month... I'd consider it.
 
#43
#43
Poverty doesn't exist in the US and there are not enough homeless people to count. Volnation is just full of knowledge.
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#44
#44
CardassianVol said:
Poverty doesn't exist in the US and there are not enough homeless people to count. Volnation is just full of knowledge.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Poverty in a historic or global perspective does not exist in America.

There are percentage wise very, very few homeless people in the sense of perpetually homeless. There are even fewer who cannot get public or charitable provision of shelter if they want it.
 
#47
#47
Poverty in America?
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78.3% own an air conditioner
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It's like something I saw on the news today about a family whose air conditioning wasn't working due to some outage and they had to suffer through a few nights with 80 degree heat. My mom who grew up in Mumbai found it amazing that story was newsworthy.
 
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#48
#48
droski said:
doesn't matter. bill gates owns 4 houses. until they own more than one they are living in poverty. they'd be much happier being serfs in england in the 1800s. My $.02
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Without question.....until the wars started and the nobles started rounding up the troops.
 
#49
#49
nbakerld said:
I would so be down with this. This was kind of the intent of the constitution. 50 unique but united states. The federal government has done its best to homogenize them. If states were actually allowed to be different from each other then we could vote with our feet and find a place where we agree with the laws. Under the current order, we don't have that luxury. We have the basically same generic government product for everybody.

I would avoid states with (but I'm sure these points would appeal to others):

- drug restrictions
- no abortion (I disagree with it, but the unintended consequences of prohibition are worse, IMO)
- no prostitution
- heavy economic regulation
- state income tax
- state property tax
- large public education budgets
- no voucher system
- large union presence among state employees
- collective bargaining period
- death penalty
- minimum wage
- anti-immigration

The point is I would find something closer to my ideal, and so would you. It bothers me that "diversity" is supposedly a sought-after ideal and the federal government seems to be hellbent on homogenizing the US.
Click to expand...

Sorry but I'm a little confused (not the first time)... but aren't most of the above currently fully or largely controlled by the states at present?
 
#50
#50
How can they really be living in poverty when they have a SWIMMING POOL?

garbagecan.jpg
 
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