Premiere League & World Soccer Thread

Agree for almost all of the points about FFP.

I did want to just point out that the numbers involved in FFPs present day set up is a much more complicated calculation than just the pure total money of sales and purchases like Transfermarket is showing. Chelsea’s calculated total expenditure on the players they have purchases this window is 261 Million. Player Purchase fees are allowed to be spread over the length of the contract though and the yearly spend on that contract is what’s calculated each fiscal year. So a team in one transfer window might spend $200 million on 4 new players and then only sell 2 players for $100M, but if all 4 of those player purchases are 5 year contracts than the total net spend on those 4 players would be $40M per year over 5 years. If the 2 players they sold were either academy players or players with a low amount of amortization costs left on their contract than they could very easily come out in the green for that window.

The selling academy players angle has really helped Chelsea the last decade or so. Pure profit is a big deal in book keeping. Sell a couple academy players each window and that’s one way to help level the books for the year. This window alone Chelsea have had over 140M of pure profit from selling academy players. As a supporter, I still am uneasy and think they have gotten themselves dangerously close to the line in regards to a transfer ban or whatever for FFP, but them continuing to spend shows their confidence level in where they are from a book keeping perspective. We will see where the chips end up soon enough.

I’ll get off my soapbox now. Good to see you posting in here again.
I understand that. In 2024 FFP is more of a salary cap governance. With that said, a new owner came in and while he purchased the team knowing their assets, he should be given a window of time to build HIS team and work directly with the Prem and UEFA to remove subterfuge. Knowledgeable fans realize Chelsea went 3 or 4 windows without spending a dime. Then a scandal with their Russian oligarch, and now trying to find footing. I have no issue with it provided the owner understands the risk, is personally accountable for losses (no bankruptcy protection), and has a finite window in which to do it.
 
City isn’t necessarily in trouble for spending above their means. Their charges had more to do with what the PL deemed as City using illegitimate sponsorships and shady book keeping to inflate their income to gain a competitive advantage.
What's the difference from what Barca did a year ago to register players? Moving money, is moving money. Some people just do it better. The end game is the same. City has a world class organization that has benefitted both the city of Manchester and the Premier League. They took the losses and now are one of the most valuable soccer clubs int he world. They conduct excellent business in the transfer market, re-invest in their facilities and community, bring a beautiful brand to the league, and have provided some of the best games and moments in world soccer over the past 10 years. Hate them all you want, but most of the charges are political in nature. The culture within the club is now trying to be mimicked by most other teams.
 
IMO this sort of spending should be almost, if not entirely, outside the realm of FFP. There probably needs to be some equity in what teams are allowed to spend on their actual squads, but if a billionaire owner wants to come in and invest in infrastructure for the club they shouldn’t be hamstrung in their efforts to do so. To massively oversimplify the situation, that’s how Everton ended up getting deducted points last year, because of cost overruns on the stadium. In fairness, it’s not as though we didn’t also spend recklessly over the years.

As you said, the investments City have made over the past 15 years have been nothing but a positive for that community. It’s no wonder United are wanting to upgrade/replace Old Trafford. It’s kind of a holdover from the ****hole era of Manchester you described. Area around it is decent enough, but OT itself sucks. I’m hoping Everton’s new ground will have a similar effect on a smaller scale for the derelict, abandoned area of the Liverpool waterfront that they’ve built it on. Also, unless you’re West Ham and just happen to fall into a free one, stadiums in the UK aren’t publicly funded. That leaves the ownership having to invest their own money if they ever want to improve.
The Everton investment should be celebrated and not held against them with FFP. Reinvesting in one of the top 5 most historic Prem clubs with a state-of-the-art stadium is what they need. People forget that Everton lead the Prem in total points until the 2000's. They used to be the biggest club. They need a spark, and the new stadium should provide that. Regardless, they will absolutely need investment on players when the stadium concludes. A 2-year forbearance of FFP rules (or at least an agreed budget for player salaries) should also go into effect for those raising the standards of their existing grounds.
 
I understand that. In 2024 FFP is more of a salary cap governance. With that said, a new owner came in and while he purchased the team knowing their assets, he should be given a window of time to build HIS team and work directly with the Prem and UEFA to remove subterfuge. Knowledgeable fans realize Chelsea went 3 or 4 windows without spending a dime. Then a scandal with their Russian oligarch, and now trying to find footing. I have no issue with it provided the owner understands the risk, is personally accountable for losses (no bankruptcy protection), and has a finite window in which to do it.
I’m with you and in most instances I agree. I do think there needs to be a protection in place for susceptible clubs though. I don’t think anyone is really worried about a billionaire owning Chelsea and spending them into administration, but there is legitimate reason to be worried about clubs lower in the pyramid as we have seen some clubs go from stable to unstable quickly because an owner spent above their means or their approach to build the club failed. Idk how we differentiate these clubs from a policy standpoint though. Maybe PSR should only apply to League One and below.. idk.
 
What's the difference from what Barca did a year ago to register players? Moving money, is moving money. Some people just do it better. The end game is the same. City has a world class organization that has benefitted both the city of Manchester and the Premier League. They took the losses and now are one of the most valuable soccer clubs int he world. They conduct excellent business in the transfer market, re-invest in their facilities and community, bring a beautiful brand to the league, and have provided some of the best games and moments in world soccer over the past 10 years. Hate them all you want, but most of the charges are political in nature. The culture within the club is now trying to be mimicked by most other teams.
If City is charged by the independent council then the difference between City and Barca would be that City used tactics that broke PL rules, and Barca used tactics that La Liga allows and so they didn’t break rules.

I don’t have any judgements on City about this because I don’t have the full context of the exact deals that PL has issues on, I was just providing input on what the charges were for. The independent council will have the final say on whether or not City’s business dealings broke the PL rules or not. I hope we get access to the full report at the end and not just briefings. Should be an interesting read.
 
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@Nash_Vol97 @Outofmyvolcanmind @bleedorange0037 @Grey_pilgrim

I do not follow the sport as closely as any of you guys do, but I would think most (all?) of the vitriol directed at City over this is because 1) they've been really successful doing it and 2) they are owned by oil sheiks.

Chelsea and Barca might be doing stuff too, but they haven't been good, so people just kind of laugh at it and move on (sort of like Pruitt cheating). Nobody really gets mad at people who cheat and still aren't good - they become more objects of ridicule or even pity. Neither of those clubs at the moment is owned by an "outsider" either.
 
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@Nash_Vol97 @Outofmyvolcanmind @bleedorange0037 @Grey_pilgrim

I do not follow the sport as closely as any of you guys do, but I would think most (all?) of the vitriol directed at City over this is because 1) they've been really successful doing it and 2) they are owned by oil sheiks.

Chelsea and Barca might be doing stuff too, but they haven't been good, so people just kind of laugh at it and move on (sort of like Pruitt cheating). Nobody really gets mad at people who cheat and still aren't good - they become more objects of ridicule or even pity. Neither of those clubs at the moment is owned by an "outsider" either.
Both 1) and 2) are certainly part of the equation. My opinion is that the bigger point out of those 2 is the oil money. Football supporters are traditionalists at heart and oil money coming in and shaking up things is something most supporters want to see.. unless the oil money comes to their club of course lol.

As for the view of City vs Chelsea / Barca I don’t really agree that City is getting anything more than what Chelsea and City get in terms of vitriol towards the club. City is the hot topic because of the case but the amount of vitriol towards Chelsea is still very high from opposing clubs because of the spending, and I don’t blame them either. As a supporter I struggle to see a clear plan from the sporting directors. Still though, there is constant vitriol being spewed by not only opposing fans but also the media (mostly former players of those red teams) on a day in and day out basis for Chelsea. Regardless of how bad they have been the past few years, Chelsea is still currently towards the top of the hate list by most PL club supporters.

As for the “cheating” by this Chelsea ownership group, well, there hasn’t been any cheating yet, or at least anything from what we know currently. Not only is there nothing in the league rules that says Chelsea can’t sell their training ground to their parent company and reap pure profits, but the PL clubs had a chance to create the rule going forward this summer and they voted against it. Quite a few clubs were said to be in favor of a new rule but didn’t think that the rule that was being presented was specific enough. Why? Because all clubs do what Chelsea did.. just not on the scale that Chelsea did it.

I’ll be happy to walk back any comment I have about this if it comes out later that Chelsea did other things to cheat the system, but as it is right now they haven’t done anything wrong. I think there is a decent chance for FFP violations for Europe based off spending, but i feel pretty okay about PL PSR violations at this moment. We will see. Either Chelsea are confident in their book keeping, or they are just buying everyone now so that it won’t matter when they get a transfer ban next summer 😅
 
@Nash_Vol97 @Outofmyvolcanmind @bleedorange0037 @Grey_pilgrim

I do not follow the sport as closely as any of you guys do, but I would think most (all?) of the vitriol directed at City over this is because 1) they've been really successful doing it and 2) they are owned by oil sheiks.

Chelsea and Barca might be doing stuff too, but they haven't been good, so people just kind of laugh at it and move on (sort of like Pruitt cheating). Nobody really gets mad at people who cheat and still aren't good - they become more objects of ridicule or even pity. Neither of those clubs at the moment is owned by an "outsider" either.
Ummm...Everton were docked 10 points last season, and would have been more if the PL got their way. They did everything possible within the scope of their powers to expel us from the league.
 
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@Nash_Vol97 @Outofmyvolcanmind @bleedorange0037 @Grey_pilgrim

I do not follow the sport as closely as any of you guys do, but I would think most (all?) of the vitriol directed at City over this is because 1) they've been really successful doing it and 2) they are owned by oil sheiks.

Chelsea and Barca might be doing stuff too, but they haven't been good, so people just kind of laugh at it and move on (sort of like Pruitt cheating). Nobody really gets mad at people who cheat and still aren't good - they become more objects of ridicule or even pity. Neither of those clubs at the moment is owned by an "outsider" either.
Yes on both.
 
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Yes on both.
I think it’s really more to do with the former, and the British tall poppy syndrome that you mentioned earlier, than who their owners actually happen to be.

We really only see the feel good part of the story through the documentary, but there is a very similar resentment towards Wrexham starting to come to the surface in the UK. By all accounts, Rob and Ryan are pretty decent guys who have done a ton of good for that club and the larger community.

For fans of other clubs, it’s hard not to be jealous and wonder “why not us?”, as who gets bought by good owners really does feel like a complete lottery sometimes. I looked at the table from the 07-08 season right before the sheiks bought City, and the two teams that finished directly above them were Portsmouth and Blackburn Rovers. Talk about fortunes diverging.
 
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@Nash_Vol97 @Outofmyvolcanmind @bleedorange0037 @Grey_pilgrim

I do not follow the sport as closely as any of you guys do, but I would think most (all?) of the vitriol directed at City over this is because 1) they've been really successful doing it and 2) they are owned by oil sheiks.

Chelsea and Barca might be doing stuff too, but they haven't been good, so people just kind of laugh at it and move on (sort of like Pruitt cheating). Nobody really gets mad at people who cheat and still aren't good - they become more objects of ridicule or even pity. Neither of those clubs at the moment is owned by an "outsider" either.
Yeah I’d say it’s probably both. I blindly picked City to follow because everyone I knew was a Man U fan and didn’t want to be a bandwagon fan. I didn’t know about their recent success or the oil money stuff. If I had I might’ve picked a different team. But I do really enjoy watching them play. De Brunye might be one of the best at his position. Haaland is streaky but obviously his tons of talent and is special. Then guys Rodri, Walker, Silva, Grealish. It’s a fun squad to watch. I’ve made friends with an Arsenal fan and Newcastle so I just try to watch as many games as I can and continue to learn about the sport. Also try to make to as many One Knox games as I can.
 
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Yeah I’d say it’s probably both. I blindly picked City to follow because everyone I knew was a Man U fan and didn’t want to be a bandwagon fan. I didn’t know about their recent success or the oil money stuff. If I had I might’ve picked a different team. But I do really enjoy watching them play. De Brunye might be one of the best at his position. Haaland is streaky but obviously his tons of talent and is special. Then guys Rodri, Walker, Silva, Grealish. It’s a fun squad to watch. I’ve made friends with an Arsenal fan and Newcastle so I just try to watch as many games as I can and continue to learn about the sport. Also try to make to as many One Knox games as I can.
What I’d give to have a striker as “streaky” as Erling Haaland.
 
What I’d give to have a striker as “streaky” as Erling Haaland.
True lol. He’s a generational talent but sometimes he disappears in the bigger games. Likely because he’s getting double teamed which the better teams can afford to do. He’s looked better on PKs too which is huge
 
Maresca's comment is straight f'n retarded.

*We get it, but you don't say that out loud at a top club.
 
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It’s early, and there are Champions League games to manage and work through, but I’ve been extremely impressed with Slot. Playing Gravenberch at the 6 (he’s been incredible there) and making good tactical decisions so far. Also hasn’t conceded a goal in 3 games, something that plagued Liverpool at times last year.

Long way to go, but they may have found their man.
 

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