President Donald Trump - J.D. Vance Administration

#15,853
#15,853
LouderVol said:
the amount of trust I inherently have for any given entity is inversely related to how much power they have over me.

meaning the federal government starts at 0, and they have yet to do anything to justify more than that.

so even the assumptions of a slime ball lawyer I will take over their assumptions. especially when it comes to our rights.
Click to expand...
You are welcome to. That doesn't mean that:

A: We need to operate on your same assumptions.
B: Similarly, your assumptions will carry weight in this debate.
C: Our refusal of assuming his innocence (or the validity of the reports) has ANYTHING to do with the justice system's requirement to assume him innocent, as you seemed to indicate earlier.


LouderVol said:
we start with the assumption of innocence. the government has to prove our guilt. that is where the conversation should always start, with innocence. thats why I am saying this doesn't seem to be on the up and up.

...
Click to expand...
Who says that the conversation has to start with all of us assuming his innocence?

WE don't have to assume his innocence any more than we have to assume that the DoJ just kicked down his door without a warrant and locked him in a basement somewhere on the way to a pool filled with laser-fitted sharks, just because his lawyer decided to try this in the media. Or any more than we need to assume that he is a hardened terrorist agitator that deserves the laser-fitter shark pool.

You seem to be claiming that it's always better to rush to judgment, as long as our judgment aligns with yours, and that seems quite arrogant, actually. I think it's RARELY beneficial to rush to judgment one way or another.

I mean, heck... When I questioned us making those assumptions for debate, I was accused of being Japanese-unamerican... lol (Not by you.)

(For the record, I have an inherent distrust of the gov't as well. But that doesn't mean I'm going to assume as fact for the purpose of debate, rush to accuse as fact, and then call people out for not joining me. And if/when I do, please call me out so that I can recognize my blinders and correct course.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: InVOLuntary
#15,854
#15,854
jwells said:
It's not hysterics to point out things that are actively happening.
You don't *like* to hear that your guys are doing bad stuff.

It's also not illegal to be an antisemite. Deplorable...but protected speech. It's not illegal to be a mouthpiece. Don't agree with his views, but...free speech.

Trump was clear as to why this guy was arrested.
www.cbsnews.com

Trump says arrest of Palestinian activist who helped lead Columbia protests is first of "many to come"

President Trump warned that the arrest of prominent Palestinian activist Mahmoud Khalil by federal immigration authorities is the first "of many to come."
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

Again, I don't agree with the guy, but we can't arrest and deport people because we don't like what they say. Unless the government has a compelling argument beyond what Trump (the government) has said...they're simply trying to deport him for not being nice to Israel.

When we talk about weaponizing government, this is it. It should not be partisan to be concerned about the government trying to silence free speech.
Click to expand...
You glossed over the part of that post per your assumptions about what has actually happened, and then argued your assumptions as fact.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dovervolz, InVOLuntary, W.TN.Orange Blood and 2 others
#15,859
#15,859
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
Click to expand...

"
Power Forward Communities, which includes United Way Worldwide and Habitat for Humanity, says it plans to use the money to help fund energy efficiency upgrades in low-income households, trying to bring down costs by paying appliance makers and contractors many upgrades at once.


Abrams was senior counsel to Rewiring America until December, said her spokesperson, Joshua Karp. That's one of the groups that make up the Power Forward Communities coalition.

Abrams was not paid by Power Forward Communities, Karp said.

"


So now we're against energy efficient upgrades for poor people?
Anything Jesse Waters says is for one purpose: to be provocative. He knows he's not "news" so he's free to just spout smug ******** all day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EasternVol
#15,860
#15,860
EasternVol said:
Are you Japanese? Our system here is presumption of innocence until proven guilty.
Click to expand...

Our debate here doesn't. AAMOF, it would probably benefit from a lack of assumptions. That was and is my point.

Orange_Crush said:
You are welcome to. That doesn't mean that:

A: We need to operate on your same assumptions.
B: Similarly, your assumptions will carry weight in this debate.
C: Our refusal of assuming his innocence (or the validity of the reports) has ANYTHING to do with the justice system's requirement to assume him innocent, as you seemed to indicate earlier.



Who says that the conversation has to start with all of us assuming his innocence?

WE don't have to assume his innocence any more than we have to assume that the DoJ just kicked down his door without a warrant and locked him in a basement somewhere on the way to a pool filled with laser-fitted sharks, just because his lawyer decided to try this in the media. Or any more than we need to assume that he is a hardened terrorist agitator that deserves the laser-fitter shark pool.

You seem to be claiming that it's always better to rush to judgment, as long as our judgment aligns with yours, and that seems quite arrogant, actually. I think it's RARELY beneficial to rush to judgment one way or another.

I mean, heck... When I questioned us making those assumptions for debate, I was accused of being Japanese-unamerican... lol (Not by you.)

(For the record, I have an inherent distrust of the gov't as well. But that doesn't mean I'm going to assume as fact for the purpose of debate, rush to accuse as fact, and then call people out for not joining me. And if/when I do, please call me out so that I can recognize my blinders and correct course.)
Click to expand...
 
#15,861
#15,861
jwells said:
They literally had a bipartisan bill that he killed to keep it in chaos to use for his election campaign.
Click to expand...
the bipartisan bill that would have only stopped Canadians and Mexicans if a predefined, but ever increasing, number of them tried to cross the border on a given day. and the president could suspend that limit whenever he wanted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols, InVOLuntary, W.TN.Orange Blood and 2 others
#15,862
#15,862
Has anyone here considered, per the student's apparent deportation, that they have proof that he engaged in public speech that isn't protected?

ncac.org

When Can Speech Be Punished? A Primer on Unprotected Incitement to Violence

First Amendment exceptions in the wake of the riot on Capitol Hill. Legal protections for “hate speech” exclude incitement to violence.
ncac.org ncac.org

Harassment is distinct from “hate speech” because it goes beyond mere expression of opinion and targets a particular person for harm. The threshold for speech rising to the level of illegal harassment is generally quite high. Anti-harassment laws often refer to speech directed at a particular person, based on the victim’s race, religion, or other group characteristic, and which has the purpose or effect of substantially interfering with, for example, a student’s educational performance or creating an intimidating, hostile or offensive environment.

These exceptions to the protections of the First Amendment are very narrow, but they are well established. Civil libertarians and supporters of free expression–including protest, writing and art–can and should support the right to express hateful opinions, but can draw a clear line that no one has a right to incite a riot or to harass another person.
Click to expand...

Any chance that he went beyond merely sharing an opinion about the Palestinian war, and into an area where he created an offensive and/or intimidating environment that substantially interfered with Jews feeling like they can safely get an education on campus?
 
  • Like
Reactions: InVOLuntary
#15,864
#15,864
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
So many dumb communist democrats in this big wide world we live in.
Click to expand...


What a "dumb communist democrat" looks like in 2025.

www.yahoo.com

DOGE job cuts shake Trump-voting West Virginia town

STORY: Jennifer Piggott voted for Trump in the November election.Then, in February, she was fired from her civil service job.PIGGOTT: "I feel a little bit betrayed."She was among more than 125 people dismissed last month from the Treasury Department's Bureau of Fiscal Service in Parkersburg...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
 
#15,865
#15,865
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
So many dumb communist democrats in this big wide world we live in.
Click to expand...

Lots of hard working Americans are arrested when they break the law. Why shouldn't hard working immigrants be deported if they are here and working illegally?

Is there a "hard-working" immunity clause somewhere that I don't know about?
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols and SlipKidVol
#15,868
#15,868
#15,871
#15,871
85SugarVol said:
Dude was arrested. He wasn’t “abducted” or “kidnapped”. If the charges are indeed bunk, he’ll be released. The pretense appears shaky, but that doesn’t = kidnapped!

The other one is little more than a ghost story apparently.
Click to expand...
I think likey is he will be deported as opposed to charged.....as his green card and student visa were revoked. I wonder if there is a provision in there that he broke that triggered his detainment....
 
#15,873
#15,873
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
Click to expand...

Interesting concept, similar to the "Free Speach" issue of banning AP from the privilege of the oval office. All you Constitutional Professors in here, are privileges covered by the 1A?

Does an immigrant have right to say anything they want, with guaranteed protections of staying in the country as the result of their speech/expression? I seem to remember that we can ban immigration depending on alignment with terrorist organizations. If an immigrant in the country professes alignment with terrorist organizations, is that grounds for removal?
 
#15,874
#15,874
whodeycin85 said:
I think likey is he will be deported as opposed to charged.....as his green card and student visa were revoked. I wonder if there is a provision in there that he broke that triggered his detainment....
Click to expand...
Sounds like he expressed an alignment with an official foreign terrorist organization? If his speech can be considered as such, he didn't think that one through very well?
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols and InVOLuntary
#15,875
#15,875
Orange_Crush said:
Sounds like he expressed an alignment with an official foreign terrorist organization? If his speech can be considered as such, he didn't think that one through very well?
Click to expand...
If he is indeed linked to Hamas and there is communication between a known Hamas person or group...then there is precedent for the arrest...see J6 the proud boys leader who arrested and wasn't in DC at the time.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top