Proof to put the 9/11 Truthers to bed in less than 2 mins

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

any chance 1, 2 and 3 are related? unless you can be specific on the individuals I couldn't begin to address that, and honestly I don't know. why is them missing a red flag?

and you know all military events are planned months in advance, years if it is outside our borders (and probably inside too). terrorists could have easily looked up this information.

this article talks a little about all the processes that go into it.
Interview: The Future of US Military Exercises in the Asia-Pacific | The Diplomat

sounds like your exercise was a yearly event
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_government_operations_and_exercises_on_September_11,_2001

and that link explains where our aircraft were. In Alaska doing the training event in response to Russia performing similar practices in north east Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DOnAn_PX6M

This is the most comprehensive documentary on 9-11 I've ever seen and IMO it lays out the best argument against the official story. If you can watch even one hour of this film and not have any issue with the official story, then more power to you.

All I know is the more I watch the "truther" documentaries and the more I watch the "debunkers" try to counter them, the less I'm convinced by debunkers and the more I'm convinced by the truthers.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I'm not going to much get into this with you as it is readily apparent you did not read and understand what I provided. I will only say that the impact load of accumulating mass at each floor was forcing instantaneous catastrophic failure AS THE FALLING BUILDING PASSED OUT THE COMPROMISED REGION OF IMPACT AND INFERNO into where normal temps were, and was sufficient to rupture the floor joist bearing angles like a scythe through hay.

Other structual engineers have offered alternate theories than what the official reports showed. What makes your arguments more valid?

 

[mdrew27]

You people are idiots.

 

[joevol33]

You people are idiots.

What do you mean "you people "?😜

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

You people are idiots.

So are people who just blindly accept what a corrupt and brain dead government feeds them.

 

[AirVol]

So are people who just blindly accept what a corrupt and brain dead government feeds them.

We are told what to believe.

 

[LouderVol]

No one is saying that heat doesnt cause metal to yield. But if you are a stress engineer, then I'm sure you have been in a strength of materials class and lab. I know have been when I was a mechanical engineer major. Yes, steel will yield, hiwever, when it does fail, it will not fail under compression in a uniform manner and most certainly not at freefall velocity. Also, what was the temperature of the steel at the point of impact vs at the 20th, 4th or even 6th floors? Surely, you are not suggesting that we had uniform heating of the steel throughout the length of the structure. Even you have to agree that the strength of the steel would have been significantly higher on the lower floors, and thus resisted compressive impacts better than the hotter floors in the impact area.

Compounding loading. again I have been over this. even at the lower floors I doubt they are oversized enough to take the immediate loading of the entire floor above falling on them. When it is fixed in place that load is transferred to beams and then to the columns and then down to the ground. but those floors still have trusses which transmit their loads to the columns and beams. i guarantee the structure of the floor system is the heaviest thing of an individual floor. when the floor system falls onto the next their loading goes from the shared columns to the floor trusses below. the floors below are also compromised meaning they can't take the loading of another floor on the trusses. even if they were fine I doubt they could hold it up. and again it is not even the trusses that have to fail, weakest link in the chain is probably whatever clipping/mounting system those trusses require to be mounted to the steel beams and columns. once those clips are gone there is no way for that force to transfer to the beams or the shared columns. at that point gravity takes over.

and then on top of that eventually when enough floors fail you will see the columns fail as they aren't braced by the floor structure any more. once any of those columns give you are creating huge issues. again removing ONE column, getting crazy here but lets say by a fully loaded commercial plane, would likely lead to eventual failure. because suddenly you are bearing weight on a failed point that offers no resistance.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Take a moment. Wipe the conspiracy theories and government stories from your mind. Just clear it from all that clutter.

Now, just think about other demolition jobs in your mind. They tend to be old hotels, stadiums, and office buildings, right? They tend to already be gutted, right? They are also way smaller than Tower 1 or Tower 2, correct? Now, think about what was required to bring down those buildings efficiently. The amount of workers, wires, explosives, holes being drilled, etc. Think of the time and planning that went into those demolitions.

Now, think of a working office building the size of Tower 1 and Tower 2. Think of the time scale needed, the manpower, the logistics, the equipment, etc. Think of the time and planning needed. Think of the fact that this is a working office building vs an already gutted structure. Think of the size differentials. Think also that all of this must be done in a COVERT manner.

Now, with that in mind, think about both theories. It should be pretty easy to dismiss one of them. You know which one.

Yah, well we've seen Mission Impossible. We know what agents can do between shifts, at midnight, in 20 minutes.

 

[hog88]

What about building 7?

I did it. Case closed.

 

[LouderVol]

Other structual engineers have offered alternate theories than what the official reports showed. What makes your arguments more valid?

So are people who just blindly accept what a corrupt and brain dead government feeds them.

and you blindly accept what the internet people tell you. half the "experts" in the videos have ZERO qualifications. High school physics teacher, electrical and mechanical engineers, a zoning official, statisticians. i have yet to see a video from someone actually qualified. sure plenty of qualified people question it, but as one of those qualified people who has studied the subject I feel my view is just as valid as theirs. doesn't mean I expect other people to blindly accept my belief which is why i have these long explanations.

again the math shows there was no need for controlled demolition. even conceptually you are looking at total failure.

and again I question every thing up to the events of that day. government could easily be involved with the hijackers, or knew about it and let it happen.

 

[The Ron Mexico]

I know I have said it before, but I really feel like you guys are very close to solving this and coming to an agreement. Keep up the good work.

 

[LouderVol]

Yep...and throw in the fact that most, if not all of the jet fuel would've instantly burned off, similar to throwing gas on a fire. There would be a big initial combustion that would consume most all fuel and left office furnishings to heat steel to a collapsing point. I just don't see it..

except there is plenty of stuff to still burn.

https://www.doctorfire.com/flametmp.html

Of interest, however, is the peak fire temperature normally associated with room fires. The peak value is governed by ventilation and fuel supply characteristics [12] and so such values will form a wide frequency distribution. Of interest is the maximum value which is fairly regularly found. This value turns out to be around 1200°C, although a typical post-flashover room fire will more commonly be 900~1000°C. The time-temperature curve for the standard fire endurance test, ASTM E 119 [13] goes up to 1260°C, but this is reached only in 8 hr. In actual fact, no jurisdiction demands fire endurance periods for over 4 hr, at which point the curve only reaches 1093°C.

that is still above 30% loss of steel strength, and that is a normal office fire.

 

[LouderVol]

I'm not going to much get into this with you as it is readily apparent you did not read and understand what I provided. I will only say that the impact load of accumulating mass at each floor was forcing instantaneous catastrophic failure AS THE FALLING BUILDING PASSED OUT THE COMPROMISED REGION OF IMPACT AND INFERNO into where normal temps were, and was sufficient to rupture the floor joist bearing angles like a scythe through hay.

whats great is these guys are arguing values, charts, formulas that mean absolutely nothing to them. Its funny that I have several books on my desk that cover these topics and deal with this on an almost weekly basis.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

In the 1st week of October, 2001, several of the best engineering minds in America met at M.I.T. and brought their expertise to bear on "why the towers fell".

Scientific American reported on the meeting.
----------------------------
Scientific American
By Steven Ashley on October 9, 2001

..."last week in Cambridge, Mass. A panel of Boston area-based civil and structural engineers convened to discuss the fate of the superskyscrapers, struck by hijacked passenger planes, in front of an overflow audience on the campus of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Their starkly sobering analyses highlighted the vulnerabilities of ultra-tall buildings to fire and pointed out steps that could be taken to lessen them."...
---------------------------
If you have a real interest in how this happened, read the entire article. There is no real disagreement among these engineers and scientists, only in the speculations of order of occurance, how hot, etc.

Note that one says that it probably was hot enough in some locations that the steel became soft as chewing gum.

Then there is this...
-----------
From SA October 2001
..."Others have pointed out the possibility that the aviation fuel fires burned sufficiently hot to melt and ignite the airliners' aluminum airframe structures. Aluminum, a pyrophoric metal, could have added to the conflagrations. Hot molten aluminum, suggests one well-informed correspondent, could have seeped down into the floor systems, doing significant damage. "Aluminum melts into burning 'goblet puddles' that would pool around depressions, [such as] beam joints, service openings in the floor, stair wells and so forth...The goblets are white hot, burning at an estimated 1800 degrees Celsius. At this temperature, the water of hydration in the concrete is vaporized and consumed by the aluminum. This evolves hydrogen gas that burns. Aluminum burning in concrete produces a calcium oxide/silicate slag covered by a white aluminum oxide ash, all of which serve to insulate and contain the aluminum puddle. This keeps the metal hot and burning. If you look at pictures of Iraqi aircraft destroyed in their concrete shelters [during the Persian Gulf war], you will notice a deep imprint of the burned aircraft on the concrete floor.
--------------------------

Now the fire in the building service core was partially fed oxygen by the updraft of air out several of the elevator shafts and stairwells whose doors would have been obliterated during impact. Ductwork also, but not much as firedampers are placed to prevent ducts feeding fire.

Go back to my previous post where I linked to the structural fire protection engineer's article on how poorly the steel fire protection had become compromised. Especially look at the photo, where you plainly see that the sprayed on insulation was more like disintegrating cotton candy with raw, exposed steel everywhere and the existence of "thermal shorts" .. where the supposedly protected material is actually exposed to the heat by faulty insulation... was not something you had to look for, it was everywhere.

Now this from the SA article:

"...Some have raised questions about the degree of fire protection available to guard the structural steel. According to press reports, the original asbestos cementitious fireproofing applied to the steel framework of the north tower and the lower 30 stories of the south were removed after the 1993 terrorist truck bombing..."

So when considering how it happened, we can pretty much eliminate fire protection coatings from the algorithim altogether. As the photo and the Purdue CG video I link in a previous post shows, what little existed was blasted away at impact. Sure, not at all locations, but more than enough of the floor truss end support details, at the outer curtain wall and inner service core, were completely exposed to a fire hot enough to cause collapse.

Now, read the whole article.

Those who want to make a hobby out of it go find the reports this article refers to as yet to be done.

Jet fuel fires brought the buildings down.

Bin Laden had access to world class engineers in his billionare father's construction business.

The basic design of the towers was radically new when done in the late '60s and the towers were built in the early 70's, it was touted all over. Structural Load Bearing Curtain wall exterior, Structural Loadbearing Central Service Core. A long span floor truss system between supporting a lightweight concrete floor poured in a corrugated metal form attached to the truss system such that the whole truss, corrugated metal form, concrete system becomes a horizontal diaphragm, tuned to help the exterior and interior load bearing load bearing systems resist high winds as designed.

All it takes is a knowledge of how they were built.

Now go find the book.

'Bin Laden The Man Who Declared War on America'
by Yossef Bodansky
Forum Books
Prima Publishing
copyright 1999,2001
ISBN 0-7615-1968-8

Bodansky was, at the time, the Director of the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare and a previous Consultant to the Departments of Defense and of State...eg. to the Secretary of Defense and Secretary of State.
Bill Clinton had two special advisors who wrote a broader based book on the topic. Evidently that one hasn't been returned to my library.
My point here is, our presidents, congress, state department, and military knew about the Bin Laden threat; and this was across the administrations of several presidents and both parties.
I'm not suggesting collusion. I'm accusing systemic across the board incompetence.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

whats great is these guys are arguing values, charts, formulas that mean absolutely nothing to them. Its funny that I have several books on my desk that cover these topics and deal with this on an almost weekly basis.

I used to. I'm retired now. I'm sure you know what I mean when I say someone's a Master of Disaster.

 

[LouderVol]

I used to. I'm retired now. I'm sure you know what I mean when I say someone's a Master of Disaster.

Oh yeah. its a terrible feeling when you give an engineer a drawing and their face goes blank.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

Oh yeah. its a terrible feeling when you give an engineer a drawing and their face goes blank.

After getting no satisfaction from a new Chemical Engineer responsible for a system where structrual changes were occuring and a run of her piping with instrumentation was going to be rerouted to near the ceiling, so let's relocate the instrumentation. Only needed her initials, really. I took a set of working drawings to discuss where we were doing structural & civil mods. I'd try to show her system on plans, elevations, sections, etc.; but she'd roll right back over to the process P&ID Piping & Instrumentation Diagram. (for those who don't know-that's similar to the electrical schematic in your cars owners manual, I stuck one on here for grins) The sweet & smart but woefully inadequately schooled girl would point at some locations on a line and ask if the wall couldn't be out here or there. I couldn't believe it.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Anybody ready to at least consider an KSA/Israeli connection and conspiracy to 9/11 after the Steve Pieczenik news regarding Huma Abedin?

Some of you people are running out of time to jump on the truth bandwagon...

 

[LouderVol]

Anybody ready to at least consider an KSA/Israeli connection and conspiracy to 9/11 after the Steve Pieczenik news regarding Huma Abedin?

Some of you people are running out of time to jump on the truth bandwagon...

do you not read ANY of what we said? Most of us have said there is likely something fishy going behind the scenes, it just doesn't involve any controlled demolitions.

no one has said they buy the official story 100%

 

[LouderVol]

After getting no satisfaction from a new Chemical Engineer responsible for a system where structrual changes were occuring and a run of her piping with instrumentation was going to be rerouted to near the ceiling, so let's relocate the instrumentation. Only needed her initials, really. I took a set of working drawings to discuss where we were doing structural & civil mods. I'd try to show her system on plans, elevations, sections, etc.; but she'd roll right back over to the process P&ID Piping & Instrumentation Diagram. (for those who don't know-that's similar to the electrical schematic in your cars owners manual, I stuck one on here for grins) The sweet & smart but woefully inadequately schooled girl would point at some locations on a line and ask if the wall couldn't be out here or there. I couldn't believe it.

thats pretty bad. never had one get confused/stuck on a line diagram (diagram vs drawing being a key distinction). had a civil who couldn't figure out how to grade two more feet when he already had a retaining wall. same guy asked if an ADA ramp could be 12%. same guy designed a sanitation line that bypassed our complex and ran 9 lines to the individual buildings when all he needed was to run it down the middle with 3 lines. We cut at least 50% of the required pipe out of the project from his drawings in 2 minutes of work.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

thats pretty bad. Never had one get confused/stuck on a line diagram (diagram vs drawing being a key distinction). Had a civil who couldn't figure out how to grade two more feet when he already had a retaining wall. Same guy asked if an ada ramp could be 12%. Same guy designed a sanitation line that bypassed our complex and ran 9 lines to the individual buildings when all he needed was to run it down the middle with 3 lines. We cut at least 50% of the required pipe out of the project from his drawings in 2 minutes of work.

lolololololol rotflmao!!!

Did he have ANY cleanouts?

 

[LouderVol]

lolololololol rotflmao!!!

Did he have ANY cleanouts?

after we "reminded" him.

he also had the **** flowing up hill. technically it worked but it was more and more digging as he went.

 

[Pacer92]

do you not read ANY of what we said? Most of us have said there is likely something fishy going behind the scenes, it just doesn't involve any controlled demolitions.

no one has said they buy the official story 100%

Do you ignore the fact that there were many samples taken at ground zero that contained nano thermite?

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

do you not read ANY of what we said? Most of us have said there is likely something fishy going behind the scenes, it just doesn't involve any controlled demolitions.

no one has said they buy the official story 100%

Maybe it was some super secret future military technology that took down the buildings?

All I know is jet fuel and office fires don't reduce a steel frame building into fine dust at free fall speed.

Something took down those building (esp Building 7) and it wasn't office fires.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

Do you ignore the fact that there were many samples taken at ground zero that contained nano thermite?

Not convinced. Thermite is powdered iron and aluminum.
Nanothermite is very fine thermite.
Nano thermite burns to form tiny globules.

Go to youtube and find a guy burning a broken mag (aluminum) wheel. He ignites it with wood.

See my above posted link to a Scientific American article about the M.I.T. scientist discussing burning aluminum Iraqi jets embedding themselves in their concrete pads and using the H20 in the concrete to crack out the oxygen by heat of combustion and so continue to burn inside a cocoon of powder, also producing hydrogen which itself burns.

Long ago I had to locate an environmental scientist to perform a "Catastrophic Explosion Toxic Compound Formation, Reaction, Dispersion, and Reuptake Analysis" to get a permit from the EPA. That's not the real name but it is what is done.

1. Catastrophic Explosion: produces high heat and every little thing close to it is vaporized or set on fire, etc.

2. Toxic Compound Formation: Since the proposed plant processes toxic chemicals, they along with cleaning, hydraulic, water, etc. fluids, and particulate mater from solid compounds are thrown up into the inferno and free form new compounds, toxic or otherwise.

3. Reaction: The remaining original chemicals: fluids, gasses, particles can then RECOMBINE to form new toxic compounds otherwise not available by mixing with some of the already formed new ones.

4. Dispersion: This chemical soup is carried away by the wind. Heavy particles just fall right down and so it goes on to very light particles and gasses carried miles or even states away.

5. Reuptake: What gets into the foodchain.

So...having an inferno, fed a draft from the service core and broken exterior walls, aluminum which most certainly ignited.

From Reddit-
("When sufficiently heated in the presence of oxygen, unactivated aluminium will burn with a VERY hot flame. That's why you keep aluminium foil away from a hot stove.
The material making up the can has a thin layer of aluminium oxide coating it which will initially prevent it from burning, so if you want to rig the question, scratch the surface of the can ("activate" it) before putting it in the flame. Either way, the can will BURN before it MELTS.")...

Melting steel "soft like gum" contacting melting and burning aluminum.

THE VERY TWO ELEMENTS IN NANO THERMITE now together in a superhot cauldron and at these temps some of the surface crystaline lattice structures of the steel (to free up elemental iron, and the aircraft aluminium will vaporize; RECOMBINING into ...guess what?...tiny globules.

Nope: Gotta do more to convince me.