Question for board about next year's team...

#1
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NYC Vol

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#1
I'm assuming Stokes leaves this year. Along with McRae, Maymon and Barton heading out, what are your thoughts of next year's team vs Zo's 1st year? Which team do you think is/was more talented and better prepared for success?

Zo's 1st year:

McRae
Golden
Maymon
Tatum
Hall
McBee
Richardson
Stokes (for only 1/2 year)

Next year:

Richardson
Thompson
Hubbs
Moore
Reese
Cornish
Austin
Cofer
Turman
Ndiaye
 
#5
#5
SCowlsVOL said:
The 1st yrs team would wax next yrs team and it's not close.
Click to expand...

I don't understand posts like these?

There's no way to prove it so why even say it, and if you know CBB you should know talent doesn't always win.

I think next years squad would beat the Miami Heat...see I can say stuff too.
 
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#6
#6
It really depends on how this recruiting class will pan out. If Austin/Cornish/Cofer/Turman do better than what their initial ranking suggest, we could have a decent team.

Austin as a PG > Golden as a PG
(Austin/Thompson as scorers < Golden)
Richardson as a senior > Tatum as a senior
Hubbs as a sophomore > McRae as a sophomore
Moore > Hall (we started Moore over Hall last year)
Cornish > McBee

Can Reese/Pops/Cofer/Turman contribute more than freshmen Stokes? That's the biggest question, can one of those guys step it up next year? It'll be interesting to see.

Maymon before surgery was an animal. The Maymon this year is not the same Maymon we had for his junior year. He has virtually no game besides rebounds and put back baskets. Hard to beat out the old Maymon.
 
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#7
#7
iKrager said:
It really depends on how this recruiting class will pan out. If Austin/Cornish/Cofer/Turman do better than what their initial ranking suggest, we could have a decent team.

Austin as a PG > Golden as a PG
(Austin/Thompson as scorers < Golden)
Richardson as a senior > Tatum as a senior
Hubbs as a sophomore > McRae as a sophomore
Moore > Hall (we started Moore over Hall last year)
Cornish > McBee

Can Reese/Pops/Cofer/Turman contribute more than freshmen Stokes? That's the biggest question, can one of those guys step it up next year? It'll be interesting to see.

Maymon before surgery was an animal. The Maymon this year is not the same Maymon we had for his junior year. He has virtually no game besides rebounds and put back baskets. Hard to beat out the old Maymon.
Click to expand...

I can't put Austin as a freshman over a guy that was 2nd team All SEC. You then bring up Maymon post surgery which has nothing to do with that first team. I agree about Richardson. Not close with Moore vs Hall (and I really like Moore) because Hall has size.

Overall, I think it's an interesting point since that 1st Zo team was picked next to last in the SEC and we're able to have a serious debate about his 4th team vs that 1st one.
 
#8
#8
NYC Vol said:
I can't put Austin as a freshman over a guy that was 2nd team All SEC. You then bring up Maymon post surgery which has nothing to do with that first team. I agree about Richardson. Not close with Moore vs Hall (and I really like Moore) because Hall has size.
Click to expand...
Lol Trae Golden was not picked to finish All-SEC his sophomore year, he unexpectedly had a good season. As a true point guard, Trae Golden wasn't very good. As a scorer, Trae Golden is really good. I think Austin can be a better point guard than Golden.

Don't get what you're saying about Hall. Hall was a lazy and uninspired 4* talent that panned out. He looked promising his freshmen year and never really improved. We put Armani Moore in the starting lineup in place of Kenny Hall during Martin's second year, so I'd still pick Armani Moore over sluggish Kenny Hall any day.

I'm saying it's hard to replace the old Jeronne Maymon with anyone coming in next year. I say Maymon was our best player Martin's first year here and there's no one who can be as productive as Maymon was that year. IMO.
 
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#9
#9
bleedingTNorange said:
I don't understand posts like these?

There's no way to prove it so why even say it, and if you know CBB you should know talent doesn't always win.

I think next years squad would beat the Miami Heat...see I can say stuff too.
Click to expand...

I don't always agree with your comments, but generally respect most everything you say.

But, you do realize that your previous comment stated that the 1st year's team had more talent. I don't think you can prove that one either. Most posts on here are subjective and can't be proven. If we have to prove everything that is said, then we won't have very many posts. And, practically no discussion of next year's team.
 
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#10
#10
hillsborovol said:
I don't always agree with your comments, but generally respect most everything you say.

But, you do realize that your previous comment stated that the 1st year's team had more talent. I don't think you can prove that one either.
Click to expand...

I said it had more talent on paper, which is provable. It's why I specifically said on paper, because you can look at their rankings and say it was more talented.
 
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#11
#11
iKrager said:
Lol Trae Golden was not picked to finish All-SEC his sophomore year, he unexpectedly had a good season. As a true point guard, Trae Golden wasn't very good. As a scorer, Trae Golden is really good. I think Austin can be a better point guard than Golden.

Don't get what you're saying about Hall. Hall was a lazy and uninspired 4* talent that panned out. He looked promising his freshmen year and never really improved. We put Armani Moore in the starting lineup in place of Kenny Hall during Martin's second year, so I'd still pick Armani Moore over sluggish Kenny Hall any day.

I'm saying it's hard to replace the old Jeronne Maymon with anyone coming in next year. I say Maymon was our best player Martin's first year here and there's no one who can be as productive as Maymon was that year. IMO.
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Okay, I misunderstood what you were saying about Maymon.

Even if we go with the perspective of looking ahead towards Zo's first team, rather than hindsight, it's still hard to put a 3 star Austin guy ahead of a guy that has been in a program for a year.

And while Hall was, IMO, a huge underachiever he was still a big body that could guard the post. I love Moore's energy but he's what...6'5"? He's not guarding the post.
 
#12
#12
bleedingTNorange said:
I said it had more talent on paper, which is provable. It's why I specifically said on paper, because you can look at their rankings and say it was more talented.
Click to expand...

It is only provable by someone's opinion, even if they are experts. Basketball talent is not measurable like track times...talent is based upon opinion.

How can you "prove" something like this? Who had more talent: Reggie Johnson, Dale Ellis, Allan Houston, Tobias Harris, Tony White, etc.? It will boil down to opinions.
 
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#13
#13
I think Stokes comes back - gives Coach Pearl a big man to work with - we finish top two next year
 
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#14
#14
First year had more talent. I'm not so sure Stokes leaves though. (I think he leaves but wouldn't be surprised if he comes back)
 
#15
#15
hillsborovol said:
It is only provable by someone's opinion, even if they are experts. Basketball talent is not measurable like track times...talent is based upon opinion.

How can you "prove" something like this? Who had more talent: Reggie Johnson, Dale Ellis, Allan Houston, Tobias Harris, Tony White, etc.? It will boil down to opinions.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying, that's all I was saying though was talent by rankings. They obviously have their flaws, but most of the time they're pretty solid.
 
#17
#17
1st yr has more talent simply because of unknown. Will Hubbs be a big time player? Will richardson take another step. Next yr could end up being better but on paper 1st yr is.
 
#18
#18
NYC Vol said:
I'm assuming Stokes leaves this year. Along with McRae, Maymon and Barton heading out, what are your thoughts of next year's team vs Zo's 1st year? Which team do you think is/was more talented and better prepared for success?

Zo's 1st year:

McRae
Golden
Maymon
Tatum
Hall
McBee
Richardson
Stokes (for only 1/2 year)

Next year:

Richardson
Thompson
Hubbs
Moore
Reese
Cornish
Austin
Cofer
Turman
Ndiaye
Click to expand...

You're missing AJ Davis in year 2. You're missing Swiperboy, Yemi, Washpun, Miller in year 1.
 
#19
#19
crparker21 said:
1st yr has more talent simply because of unknown. Will Hubbs be a big time player? Will richardson take another step. Next yr could end up being better but on paper 1st yr is.
Click to expand...

The first year was also unknown at the time. Here are the numbers Martin inherited.

PG; 3.0 Pts, 1.1 Reb, 2.2 Ast
SG; 1.8 Pts, 0.8 Reb, 0.0 Ast
SG; 3.0 Pts, 1.0 Reb, 0.6 Ast
SF; 8.8 Pts, 3.1 Reb, 2.3 Ast
PF; 2.0 Pts, 1.8 Reb, 0.1 Ast
PF; 2.6 Pts, 2.8 Reb, 0.2 Ast

Next year with no Stokes
PG; 2.8 Pts, 2.0 Reb, 2.4 Ast
SG; 9.4 Pts, 2.8 Reb, 1.2 Ast
SG; 5.1 Pts, 1.5 Reb, 0.7 Ast
G-F; 1.6 Pts, 1.8 Reb, 0.3 Ast
G-F; 2.8 Pts, 1.9 Reb, 0.6 Ast
G-F; 2.6 Pts, 3.4 Reb, 0.3 Ast

About the same but a little more production coming back. Add the fact Hubbs was hurt and its definitely similar if not better next year than year one.
 
#20
#20
NYC Vol said:
I'm assuming Stokes leaves this year. Along with McRae, Maymon and Barton heading out, what are your thoughts of next year's team vs Zo's 1st year? Which team do you think is/was more talented and better prepared for success?

Zo's 1st year:

McRae
Golden
Maymon
Tatum
Hall
McBee
Richardson
Stokes (for only 1/2 year)

Next year:

Richardson
Thompson
Hubbs
Moore
Reese
Cornish
Austin
Cofer
Turman
Ndiaye
Click to expand...

The big men in #1 break any tie there may be in the backcourt. Of course we'll see what Cofer, Thurman and Ndiaye do next year but I doubt any of them will match Maymon's 12ppg or so. The experience level is better in #1.
 
#21
#21
bleedingTNorange said:
I don't understand posts like these?

There's no way to prove it so why even say it, and if you know CBB you should know talent doesn't always win.

I think next years squad would beat the Miami Heat...see I can say stuff too.
Click to expand...

its called an opinion which u give tons of daily.
 
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#22
#22
volbeast33 said:
its called an opinion which u give tons of daily.
Click to expand...

I get that, it wasn't meant to single him out, I've just never understood the "this years team would beat the crap out of ____ years team".

You hear it in all sports at all levels, just never understood it, just kind of a rant I have.
 
#24
#24
HBCButch said:
The big men in #1 break any tie there may be in the backcourt. Of course we'll see what Cofer, Thurman and Ndiaye do next year but I doubt any of them will match Maymon's 12ppg or so. The experience level is better in #1.
Click to expand...

Where's the experience on team #1? The only guy that had any real PT was Tatum.
 
#25
#25
I think some discussion, regarding the players coming in versus those that may be exiting, fitting Martin's offense might be as important as rankings.

I've heard Pancrantz say some of the current players, for instance, aren't really suited for the motion offense.

I don't know if that is true, but I'd be interested in thoughts on that general subject.
 
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