Randy Sanders part 2

#26
#26
Originally posted by mikey@Oct 2, 2005 11:49 AM
Then you don't have a very deep understanding of the game.
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Oh but you do? Then tell me, Lombardi, why have we underachieved on offense every year since 1999 (coincidently RS's first year)?
 
#27
#27
Originally posted by GenNeyland9@Oct 2, 2005 11:58 AM
Oh but you do?  Then tell me, Lombardi, why have we underachieved on offense every year since 1999 (coincidently RS's first year)?
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Actually, Vince Lombardi was very unspectacular. He believed that you ran very few plays, but ran them well. Yes..I feel certain that I have a deeper understanding of the game than you considering I do it for a living. I would never claim to know more about doing your job than you after simply WATCHING it be done a few times. My questions to you would be these:

What would you do differently?
DID THEY WIN?
CAN YOU NAME ME 5 PROGRAMS THAT HAVE BEEN MORE CONSISTENT THAN THIS ONE OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS?
 
#29
#29
Originally posted by GAVol@Oct 2, 2005 10:42 AM
Everybody complains about the same stuff.  Down here in Georgia they think their offense has underachieved the last 2 years and is horrible in the red zone.  Sound familiar?
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It is because everyone needs a scapegoat
 
#30
#30
All these people who bash RS need to look at this point: The General won with some of the most pathetic offenses in the history of college football.

But how many "pathetic" teams did he coach?

Offenses are only a PART of the equation. I would be more apt to bash CPF for the special teams woes than I would the offense.
 
#31
#31
Originally posted by U-T@Oct 2, 2005 2:28 PM
It is because everyone needs a scapegoat
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Not a scapegoat,just legitimate explanation as to why the offense continues to underperform, and why we are not "developing" talent at the qb and wr position. Ainge should have been ready to play this year based on last years performance, especially considering the improvement in the skill positions around him.

Replacing RS may be a kneejerk reaction, but it is hard to argue that he is not outcoached consitently.
 
#32
#32
Do we not have 1 TD through the air? Pass efficiency is ranked 101st in the nation. Rushing offense is ranked 86th. This is not a fluke. This is every year. Scoring offense is ranked 93rd. I guess when you get use to something then you just accept it.

FIRE THE BUM

I just got my tickets for the UGA game. The last time I was at Neyland was two years ago against UGA. That was a great offensive performance (saracasm). The game I attended before UGA was the home game agianst Miami. That was another brilliant offensive game. I want my 60 dollars worth and I want to see blue chip recruits put up some points and plays over 12 yards. If your all content with watching game after game like the Mississippi, Florida, and UAB games then I bet you live one boring life.
 
#33
#33
Originally posted by Chingchongchang@Oct 2, 2005 4:09 PM
Do we not have 1 TD through the air?  Pass efficiency is ranked 101st in the nation.  Rushing offense is ranked 86th.  This is not a fluke.  This is every year.  Scoring offense is ranked 93rd.  I guess when you get use to something then you just accept it.

FIRE THE BUM

I just got my tickets for the UGA game.  The last time I was at Neyland was two years ago against UGA.  That was a great offensive performance (saracasm).  The game I attended before UGA was the home game agianst Miami.  That was another brilliant offensive game.  I want my 60 dollars worth and I want to see blue chip recruits put up some points and plays over 12 yards.  If your all content with watching game after game like the Mississippi, Florida,  and UAB games then I bet you live one boring life.
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You are truly a voice of reason. I was particularly dissapointed with Sanders after that loss. I had to drive back to Lex with a GA fan.

UTs offensive production is far below mediocre. I would just like to see the Sanders apologists admit to that.
 
#34
#34
Originally posted by Chingchongchang@Oct 2, 2005 4:09 PM
Do we not have 1 TD through the air?  Pass efficiency is ranked 101st in the nation.  Rushing offense is ranked 86th.  This is not a fluke.  This is every year.  Scoring offense is ranked 93rd.  I guess when you get use to something then you just accept it.

FIRE THE BUM

I just got my tickets for the UGA game.  The last time I was at Neyland was two years ago against UGA.  That was a great offensive performance (saracasm).  The game I attended before UGA was the home game agianst Miami.  That was another brilliant offensive game.  I want my 60 dollars worth and I want to see blue chip recruits put up some points and plays over 12 yards.  If your all content with watching game after game like the Mississippi, Florida,  and UAB games then I bet you live one boring life.
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2 key stats that Im watching is "Wins-3, losses-1" and "BCS RANKINGS" (which arent out yet). The rest of it is crap.

Congrats on you having UGA tickets. Now, you dont concern yourself on what level of boredom I am living my life and I wont concern myself with whether or not I give a damn if you get your $60 worth on Saturday.
 
#35
#35
Originally posted by mikey@Oct 2, 2005 12:10 PM
Actually, Vince Lombardi was very unspectacular.  He believed that you ran very few plays, but ran them well.  Yes..I feel certain that I have a deeper understanding of the game than you considering I do it for a living.  I would never claim to know more about doing your job than you after simply WATCHING it be done a few times.  My questions to you would be these:

What would you do differently?
DID THEY WIN?
CAN YOU NAME ME 5 PROGRAMS THAT HAVE BEEN MORE CONSISTENT THAN THIS ONE OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS?
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The Lombardi reference was a joke, and yes, I'm aware that Vince believed in breaking down every aspect of the Packer Sweep and running it perfectly.

With all due respect, you "understand College Football" for a living? I didn't know that job existed. What are you, a coach? Analyst? Work for Rivals.com? Whatever it is, I never claimed I knew your "job" better than you.

"WHAT WOULD YOU DO DIFFERENTLY?" This question is really inapplicable to my argument that UT needs a new OC. My point doesn't concern what I would do differently--I'm not a football coach nor do I claim to be. Your question should be posed in the context of other potential offensive coordinators, not 2nd year law students (my "job"). I only know that I can compare our offensive execution and stats to others run by other offensive coordinators, and well, we don't really measure up all that favorably. It's really a reasonable coach standard--"What would a reasonable/typical offensive coordinator at another top tier school do differently?" I think they would have plenty of answers for you.

As per your other questions:

"DID THEY WIN?" Yes. They did. They beat a crippled Ole Miss team at home. Keep in mind that Ole Miss lost to Vanderbilt (who lost to MTSU last night) and Wyoming, and probably should have lost to Memphis. The defense scored a TD, and caused several other key turnovers to save a stalled offense in the second half that almost completely shut down when they got in the red zone.

"CAN YOU NAME ME FIVE PROGRAMS THAT HAVE BEEN MORE CONSISTENT OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS?" Another question that is really framed inappropriately. My argument concerns Randy Sanders's role as OC. He's held that position for 6 years (this is his 7th). So 15 years really is irrelevant. Secondly, my argument concerns the offense--not the entire team's effort. Our defense and recruiting has more to do with how well the Vols have performed over the past 6 years than our underachieving offense.

Your question would be more accurately worded if it asked "Can you name five programs that have been consistently better offensively than us in the last 6 years?" Yes, I can. Hell, I could probably name 20 or so.
 
#36
#36
Originally posted by Chingchongchang@Oct 2, 2005 4:09 PM
  If your all content with watching game after game like the Mississippi, Florida,  and UAB games then I bet you live one boring life.
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My life isn't boring. My life doesn't even revolve around football , believe it or not. And as for being content with the status quo of UT football, I will never be one of those fans that's expects the team to go undefeated and compete for the national championship every dadgum year. I AM however, a person who enjoys watching and cheering for my team, all the while realizing that other teams aren't just gonna lay down and lose for us because I want them to. In the end, it is just another game in just another season.



* Ok, so maybe I DO expect them to win every game, but I DON'T jump ship if they lose or if they look pitiful winning. :wink2:
 
#37
#37
Originally posted by LadyinOrange@Oct 3, 2005 8:03 AM
My life isn't boring. My life doesn't even revolve around football , believe it or not. And as for being content with the status quo of UT football, I will never be one of those fans that's expects the team to go undefeated and compete for the national championship every dadgum year. I AM however, a person who enjoys watching and cheering for my team, all the while realizing that other teams aren't just gonna lay down and lose for us because I want them to. In the end, it is just another game in just another season.
* Ok, so maybe I DO expect them to win every game, but I DON'T jump ship if they lose or if they look pitiful winning. :wink2:
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:thumbsup:
 
#38
#38
Originally posted by GenNeyland9@Oct 2, 2005 7:09 PM
The Lombardi reference was a joke, and yes, I'm aware that Vince believed in breaking down every aspect of the Packer Sweep and running it perfectly.

With all due respect, you "understand College Football" for a living?  I didn't know that job existed.  What are you, a coach? Analyst? Work for Rivals.com?  Whatever it is, I never claimed I knew your "job" better than you. 

"WHAT WOULD YOU DO DIFFERENTLY?"  This question is really inapplicable to my argument that UT needs a new OC.  My point doesn't concern what I would do differently--I'm not a football coach nor do I claim to be.  Your question should be posed in the context of other potential offensive coordinators, not 2nd year law students (my "job").  I only know that I can compare our offensive execution and stats to others run by other offensive coordinators, and well, we don't really measure up all that favorably.  It's really a reasonable coach standard--"What would a reasonable/typical offensive coordinator at another top tier school do differently?"  I think they would have plenty of answers for you.

As per your other questions:

"DID THEY WIN?" Yes.  They did.  They beat a crippled Ole Miss team at home.  Keep in mind that Ole Miss lost to Vanderbilt (who lost to MTSU last night) and Wyoming, and probably should have lost to Memphis.  The defense scored a TD, and caused several other key turnovers to save a stalled offense in the second half that almost completely shut down when they got in the red zone.

"CAN YOU NAME ME FIVE PROGRAMS THAT HAVE BEEN MORE CONSISTENT OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS?"  Another question that is really framed inappropriately.  My argument concerns Randy Sanders's role as OC.  He's held that position for 6 years (this is his 7th).  So 15 years really is irrelevant.  Secondly, my argument concerns the offense--not the entire team's effort.  Our defense and recruiting has more to do with how well the Vols have performed over the past 6 years than our underachieving offense.

Your question would be more accurately worded if it asked "Can you name five programs that have been consistently better offensively than us in the last 6 years?"  Yes, I can.  Hell, I could probably name 20 or so.
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I say again, the point is to win, not win and be exciting offensively to all 2nd year law students. Noboby has won more consistently than this program...and yes I'm a coach...an OC, as a matter of fact.
 
#39
#39
Originally posted by mikey@Oct 3, 2005 9:09 AM
I say again, the point is to win, not win and be exciting offensively to all 2nd year law students.  Noboby has won more consistently than this program...and yes I'm a coach...an OC, as a matter of fact.
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The point is to make money, which is a by product of winning. In highschool athletics, that is not as important. Let me tell you that Hal Mumme puts more butts in seats than Rich Brooks. Exciting offenses sell tickets.

Tennessee Ranks 103 out of 113 in total offense, and has shown digression rather than improvement. Our society does not reward digression, and this will eventually cost Tennessee one or two games. I was part of teams that had no offense, that the defense had to carry, and I can tell you that wears on morale eventually. Bottom line, RS is consistently outcoached. If you cannot admit that then I would question your faculties as well.
 
#40
#40
Originally posted by Lexvol@Oct 3, 2005 9:32 AM
The point is to make money, which is a by product of winning.  In highschool athletics, that is not as important.  Let me tell you that Hal Mumme puts more butts in seats than Rich Brooks.  Exciting offenses sell tickets. 

Tennessee Ranks 103 out of 113 in total offense, and has shown digression rather than improvement.  Our society does not reward digression, and this will eventually cost Tennessee one or two games.  I was part of teams that had no offense, that the defense had to carry, and I can tell you that wears on morale eventually.  Bottom line, RS is consistently outcoached. If you cannot admit that then I would question your faculties as well.
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I never said Randy is never outcoached. My main point in this whole argument has been...Why does everybody blame Randy? This is UT's offense and Phillip puts as much into it as Randy. You don't really think Phillip is not in on the play calling do you? Everybody said the same thing about Phillip...and the same thing about David...the sad fact is that it used to be about winning games. Do you think UT had exciting games when Coach Neyland was around? If you want to go watch Hal Mumme then you go right ahead. For my money I'd rather watch a good 14-10 game than a 67-65 game. Kentucky sucked with Mumme and without Mumme because they don't play defense. If that's what you want to see...go right ahead. That's not the way the legends such as Neyland and Bryant played because that's not the way you win championships. I'd rather win championships than get a tingly feeling watching Hal Mumme that you seem to get.
 
#41
#41
Originally posted by Lexvol@Oct 3, 2005 9:32 AM
The point is to make money, which is a by product of winning.  In highschool athletics, that is not as important.  Let me tell you that Hal Mumme puts more butts in seats than Rich Brooks.  Exciting offenses sell tickets. 

Tennessee Ranks 103 out of 113 in total offense, and has shown digression rather than improvement.  Our society does not reward digression, and this will eventually cost Tennessee one or two games.  I was part of teams that had no offense, that the defense had to carry, and I can tell you that wears on morale eventually.  Bottom line, RS is consistently outcoached. If you cannot admit that then I would question your faculties as well.
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...by the way...I think UT makes a dollar or two off of football....because they DO win as consistently as anyone in the country. Maybe not as much as Kentucky though. :banghead:
 
#42
#42
I'm not a huge RS fan but I was at the game on Saturday (I have the sunburn to prove it) and I noticed something that might not be very popular on this sight. I think the problem on Saturday was not RS but instead RC (Rick Clausen). I know Rick is the favorite son of Tennessee right now but I always look down field and follow the multiple receivers during games that I am in attendance at. Rick missed many opportunities for huge yardage gains on Saturday. The pass routes were very impressive many times yet Rick either didn't see them wide open or when he did see them, the ball was repeatedly overthrown. In every pass play, there are multiple receivers that try to position themselves for the ball. Rick has the responsibility to find the open receiver. Numerous times on Saturday and in the past games, Rick goes to the hot route when he has open receivers downfield. I noticed many times on Saturday the frustration of one of our receivers that had his man beat yet never was thrown the ball. You could see it in their body language.
My point is that even though RS may be responsible for some bonehead plays now and then, the quarterback is responsible for "finding" and "hitting" the open receiver. If Clausen had hit just a few of the open receivers downfield, we could have scored two to three more touchdowns and RS would not have looked as bad and we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.
 
#43
#43
Originally posted by obxvol@Oct 3, 2005 10:23 AM
I'm not a huge RS fan but I was at the game on Saturday (I have the sunburn to prove it) and I noticed something that might not be very popular on this sight. I think the problem on Saturday was not RS but instead RC (Rick Clausen). I know Rick is the favorite son of Tennessee right now but I always look down field and follow the multiple receivers during games that I am in attendance at. Rick missed many opportunities for huge yardage gains on Saturday. The pass routes were very impressive many times yet Rick either didn't see them wide open or when he did see them, the ball was repeatedly overthrown. In every pass play, there are multiple receivers that try to position themselves for the ball. Rick has the responsibility to find the open receiver. Numerous times on Saturday and in the past games, Rick goes to the hot route when he has open receivers downfield. I noticed many times on Saturday the frustration of one of our receivers that had his man beat yet never was thrown the ball. You could see it in their body language.
My point is that even though RS may be responsible for some bonehead plays now and then, the quarterback is responsible for "finding" and "hitting" the open receiver. If Clausen had hit just a few of the open receivers downfield, we could have scored two to three more touchdowns and RS would not have looked as bad and we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.
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No question Clausen missed some plays down the field.
 
#44
#44
Originally posted by obxvol@Oct 3, 2005 10:23 AM
I'm not a huge RS fan but I was at the game on Saturday (I have the sunburn to prove it) and I noticed something that might not be very popular on this sight. I think the problem on Saturday was not RS but instead RC (Rick Clausen). I know Rick is the favorite son of Tennessee right now but I always look down field and follow the multiple receivers during games that I am in attendance at. Rick missed many opportunities for huge yardage gains on Saturday. The pass routes were very impressive many times yet Rick either didn't see them wide open or when he did see them, the ball was repeatedly overthrown. In every pass play, there are multiple receivers that try to position themselves for the ball. Rick has the responsibility to find the open receiver. Numerous times on Saturday and in the past games, Rick goes to the hot route when he has open receivers downfield. I noticed many times on Saturday the frustration of one of our receivers that had his man beat yet never was thrown the ball. You could see it in their body language.
My point is that even though RS may be responsible for some bonehead plays now and then, the quarterback is responsible for "finding" and "hitting" the open receiver. If Clausen had hit just a few of the open receivers downfield, we could have scored two to three more touchdowns and RS would not have looked as bad and we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.
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:bow:
 
#45
#45
I think you are probably right. I'll say something else unpopular . . . right now, Rick Clausen is probably just the better of two very medicore QBs, but Rick is the one that is willing to play within himself.
 
#46
#46
Originally posted by TitanVol@Oct 3, 2005 10:33 AM
No question Clausen missed some plays down the field.
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Hey Titanvol...anybody screaming for the Titan's staff's heads? Talk about a team the sucks :D
 
#47
#47
Originally posted by mikey@Oct 3, 2005 10:37 AM
Hey Titanvol...anybody screaming for the Titan's staff's heads?  Talk about a team the sucks    :D
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By the way...I don't think the Titans should fire anybody...except maybe Pacman.
 
#48
#48
It's not pretty, especially after that pounding yesterday. That have some serious issues.
 
#49
#49
Originally posted by TitanVol@Oct 3, 2005 10:41 AM
It's not pretty, especially after that pounding yesterday. That have some serious issues.
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It's Randy's fault the Titans are bad. :yahoo:
 
#50
#50
Originally posted by mikey@Oct 3, 2005 9:49 AM
I never said Randy is never outcoached.  My main point in this whole argument has been...Why does everybody blame Randy?  This is UT's offense and Phillip puts as much into it as Randy.  You don't really think Phillip is not in on the play calling do you?  Everybody said the same thing about Phillip...and the same thing about David...the sad fact is that it used to be about winning games.  Do you think UT had exciting games when Coach Neyland was around?  If you want to go watch Hal Mumme then you go right ahead.  For my money I'd rather watch a good 14-10 game than a 67-65 game.  Kentucky sucked with Mumme and without Mumme because they don't play defense.  If that's what you want to see...go right ahead.  That's not the way the legends such as Neyland and Bryant played because that's not the way you win championships. I'd rather win championships than get a tingly feeling watching Hal Mumme that you seem to get.
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People blame RS because they see his departure as plausible, and hope that it would be a catalyst for change. On the other hand, CPF has really become the imovable object.

Some people may say that CPF is the problem, well I say he did not hold Cutcliffe back when he was here. People actually think replacing the OC is a realistic goal.
 
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