Randy Sanders part 2

[mikey]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Oct 3, 2005 10:53 AM
People blame RS because they see his departure as plausible, and hope that it would be a catalyst for change.  On the other hand, CPF has really become the imovable object. 

Some people may say that CPF is the problem, well I say he did not hold Cutcliffe back when he was here.  People actually think replacing the OC is a realistic goal.

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I don't think it's a GOAL at all to anyone outside of this board.

 

[rwemyss]

I think CRS coached better from the box... if Fulmer decided to make a change put him back up high, and let TT call the plays in from the sideline.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by mikey@Oct 3, 2005 11:46 AM
I don't think it's a GOAL at all to anyone outside of this board.

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I would disagree. There are people out there that are tired of paying for a Lexus and only getting to drive a Pinto.

 

[volinbham]

The concerns I have include our decline in the running game - total yards and the running plays (the motion across the line) don't match up to what I've come to expect from the vols over the last 10 years or so.

Many say that PF controls the OC but if that was true, I think we'd see more running. Look at how we started the Ole Miss game - passing.

The second concern is the lack of the big play. Bama showed what it means to stretch the field.

We rely on sustained drives and the percentages aren't too good on those. If defenses are sitting back in 2 deep to keep everything underneath - why not pound the rock? Force them to bring the safeties up.

We seem to be using the pass to establish the run. The result is no big plays.

 

[TJ_dap]

i am going to tell yall something...
now a days you have to throw the ball around because that is what these kids grow up doing in there back yard...
like my dad told me that he played back yard football and that they only threw the ball on third and long...
i play backyard football and we throw the ball to the fastest guy and to the guys that can catch...

we dont run at all... unless the guy has wheels and then we might pitch it out of the backfield once in a while...

 

[holdemvol]

I am not going to try to argue that RS is a great coach, or that the offense has been impressive this year. I will however argue that the lack of production has been 90% lack of execution THIS YEAR. Time after time, game after game this year our WR's are getting behind the opposing secondary only to see a bad throw or dropped pass that would have resulted in a huge gain if not a touchdown this season. Ainge was missing on the deep ball as is Clausen. Go back and watch the games again and count the instances. I do not think it is a stretch at all to say we have missed opportunities for long TD's 10 times this year..70 points because of a bad throw or dropped pass. Now, ultimately the responsibility of getting the most out of our players rests on the coaching staff and it needs to be fixed in a hurry, but I think Sanders has done a good job in his playcalling THIS YEAR. I understand that offensive production has been down since Sanders took over. Part of that has been a drop in talent level and part his playcalling but THIS YEAR I think he has done a good job and I have to give him credit for what he did last year with the QB situation. I am just tired of logging on every week to see a dozen "fire Sanders" threads even when the playcalling has been good. He seems to be changing his ways a bit and I think the guy deserves a little credit for once.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Oct 3, 2005 1:52 PM
I am not going to try to argue that RS is a great coach, or that the offense has been impressive this year.  I will however argue that the lack of production has been 90% lack of execution THIS YEAR.  Time after time, game after game this year our WR's are getting behind the opposing secondary only to see a bad throw or dropped pass that would have resulted in a huge gain if not a touchdown this season.  Ainge was missing on the deep ball as is Clausen.  Go back and watch the games again and count the instances.  I do not think it is a stretch at all to say we have missed opportunities for long TD's 10 times this year..70 points because of a bad throw or dropped pass.  Now, ultimately the responsibility of getting the most out of our players rests on the coaching staff and it needs to be fixed in a hurry, but I think Sanders has done a good job in his playcalling THIS YEAR.  I understand that offensive production has been down since Sanders took over.  Part of that has been a drop in talent level and part his playcalling but THIS YEAR I think he has done a good job and I have to give him credit for what he did last year with the QB situation.  I am just tired of logging on every week to see a dozen "fire Sanders" threads even when the playcalling has been good.  He seems to be changing his ways a bit and I think the guy deserves a little credit for once.

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THIS YEAR our QBS are no better that they were LAST YEAR. In fact one is worse. I would expect a consistent growth rather than regression.

Even worse, is that judging by our offensive production on initial drives, Sanders uses his week wisely, because we go down and score. But after a defensive adjustment, I guess UT needs another week to prepare. THIS YEAR is no different from THE LAST. Sanders continues to get outcoached.

 

[GenNeyland9]

Originally posted by mikey@Oct 3, 2005 9:09 AM
I say again, the point is to win, not win and be exciting offensively to all 2nd year law students.  Noboby has won more consistently than this program...and yes I'm a coach...an OC, as a matter of fact.

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You keep wanting us to name 5 teams that have been more consistent the last 15 years. I'm talking about the last 6 years, the six that Randy's been OC.

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/record...e=on&by=Win+Pct

We're tenth. Not bad, I admit. But how much higher would it be if we didn't have to rely on our defense so much?

And by the way, this law student doesn't care how exciting we are; he just wants us to put the ball in the end zone against UAB and Ole Miss, and score more than 20 points per game (our current average, which is near the bottom of the SEC).

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Oct 3, 2005 2:02 PM
THIS YEAR our QBS are no better that they were LAST YEAR.  In fact one is worse.  I would expect a consistent growth rather than regression. 

Even worse, is that judging by our offensive production on initial drives, Sanders uses his week wisely, because we go down and score.  But after a defensive adjustment, I guess UT needs another week to prepare.  THIS YEAR is no different from THE LAST.  Sanders continues to get outcoached.

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Why is it Sanders fault that our QB's forgot how to throw the ball? How do bad passes and dropped balls equate to "being outcoached"? Have you watched a game this year? If so how can you even argue against the fact that if it were not for bad play from our QB's and WR's we would be putting up big time numbers? I understand his playcalling has not been up to par at times but playcalling has not been the issue this year, lack of execution has. Some of you are so bent on Sanders being the antichrist that it would not matter if we won by 80 every week, you would still log on to start the weekly Sanders bashing. I am not even a big Sanders fan and have been very critical of him in the past but I am also willing to give credit where credit is due.

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by GenNeyland9@Oct 3, 2005 2:18 PM
You keep wanting us to name 5 teams that have been more consistent the last five years.

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/record...a=on&by=Win+Pct

We're tied for 12th.  Not bad, I admit.  But how much higher would it be if we didn't have to rely on our defense so much?

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You would also have to admit we had a drop off in talent for a couple of those years.

 

[GenNeyland9]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Oct 3, 2005 2:20 PM
You would also have to admit we had a drop off in talent for a couple of those years.

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I was only answering the question posed earlier.

 

[holdemvol]

understood.

 

[GenNeyland9]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Oct 3, 2005 2:19 PM
Why is it Sanders fault that our QB's forgot how to throw the ball?  How do bad passes and dropped balls equate to "being outcoached"?  Have you watched a game this year?  If so how can you even argue against the fact  that if it were not for bad play from our QB's and WR's we would be putting up big time numbers?  I understand his playcalling has not been up to par at times but playcalling has not been the issue this year, lack of execution has.  Some of you are so bent on Sanders being the antichrist that it would not matter if we won by 80 every week, you would still log on to start the weekly Sanders bashing.  I am not even a big Sanders fan and have been very critical of him in the past but I am also willing to give credit where credit is due.

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I'm not really even that upset with the playcalling. It is a lack of execution, but I think that is also the responsibility of an OC. Obviously I'm not a coach and I don't want to assume too much, but I'd like to think that the OC also has a lot to do with execution of plays in addition to playcalling.

Also, mikey, I give it to you that you can't name 5 programs that have won more than UT in the last 15 years (we're 4th). However, again, for this argument the more accurate comparison is the last six years, (the Randy Sanders years) where we are 10th. Again this is good, but how much higher would we be, and how many more wins would we have had if the offense was more efficient and productive?

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Oct 3, 2005 2:19 PM
Why is it Sanders fault that our QB's forgot how to throw the ball?  How do bad passes and dropped balls equate to "being outcoached"?  Have you watched a game this year?  If so how can you even argue against the fact  that if it were not for bad play from our QB's and WR's we would be putting up big time numbers?  I understand his playcalling has not been up to par at times but playcalling has not been the issue this year, lack of execution has.  Some of you are so bent on Sanders being the antichrist that it would not matter if we won by 80 every week, you would still log on to start the weekly Sanders bashing.  I am not even a big Sanders fan and have been very critical of him in the past but I am also willing to give credit where credit is due.

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Sanders is the QB coach.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by GenNeyland9@Oct 3, 2005 2:31 PM
I'm not really even that upset with the playcalling.  It is a lack of execution, but I think that is also the responsibility of an OC.  Obviously I'm not a coach and I don't want to assume too much, but I'd like to think that the OC also has a lot to do with execution of plays in addition to playcalling.

Also, mikey, I give it to you that you can't name 5 programs that have won more than UT in the last 15 years (we're 4th).  However, again, for this argument the more accurate comparison is the last six years, where we are 10th.

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We are tenth, but have put as many kids in the NFL as anybody. What does that say? We should have been second or third.

 

[tvolsfan]

CRS just needs to be aggressive. with a great defesne sometimes it is okay to be a little agressive. we have a good defense.

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Oct 3, 2005 2:32 PM
Sanders is the QB coach.

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OK, fine. Sanders is the QB coach, so you are telling me that his poor QB coaching is causing the bad throws? Do you honestly believe that? These kids are not in junior high, they are SEC football players and if you really think Sanders is causing the bad throws and dropped balls you need to put the pipe down. Again, everything ultimately falls on the coaching staff, but why is it just Sanders' fault? Last I checked we had a head coach and it seems if these players were this bad in practice CPF would step in and change some things. They are falling apart on gameday and trying to put it all on Sanders is oversimplifying.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Oct 3, 2005 2:46 PM
OK, fine.  Sanders is the QB coach, so you are telling me that his poor QB coaching is causing the bad throws?  Do you honestly believe that?  These kids are not in junior high, they are SEC football players and if you really think Sanders is causing the bad throws and dropped balls you need to put the pipe down.  Again, everything ultimately falls on the coaching staff, but why is it just Sanders' fault?  Last I checked we had a head coach and it seems if these players were this bad in practice CPF would step in and change some things.  They are falling apart on gameday and trying to put it all on Sanders is oversimplifying.

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Don't you think that making a good throw depends on footwork and technique? Not putting enough on Sanders is also a problem. Ainge should be a top 10 qb this year. If he had a better coach, there is a good chance that he would be.

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Oct 3, 2005 3:24 PM
Don't you think that making a good throw depends on footwork and technique?  Not putting enough on Sanders is also a problem.  Ainge should be a top 10 qb this year.  If he had a better coach, there is a good chance that he would be.

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There is also a chance that Ainge would be a better QB if he pulled his head out of his ass. Has Ainge's technique been worse than last year? I don't think so, I think his problems have been in his head. From what I understand Ainge has hit everything in practice but then falls apart on gameday. Listen, I agree that some blame should be put on Sanders, but I also believe it should be spread and not just all pinned on him. One week his playcalling is inept and when that improves the argument turns to teaching bad technique. When we play well it is all because of the players, but when the players play not so well it is all Randy's fault. I just wonder if there is anything the man could ever do to get at least an ounce of respect or credit.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Oct 3, 2005 3:41 PM
There is also a chance that Ainge would be a better QB if he pulled his head out of his ass.  Has Ainge's technique been worse than last year?  I don't think so, I think his problems have been in his head.  From what I understand Ainge has hit everything in practice but then falls apart  Listen, I agree that some blame should be put on Sanders, but I also beleive it should be spread and not just all pinned on him.  One week his playcalling is inept and when that improves the argument turns to teaching bad technique.  When we play well it is all because of the players, but when the players play not so well it is all Randy's fault.  I just wonder if there is anything the man could ever do to get at least an ounce of respect or credit.

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I actually give RS credit when he calls well. He deserves credit for what he did last year especially. I would just love to see consistancy. This is nothing personal to RS, it just seems as though he is the weak link in the chain. I would love for RS to turn things around (diagnose the Cranium Butt disease sooner) and develop some players. If it happened, I would be the first to congradulate him.

UTs 103 offensive ranking should be a red light for everyone. Considering all the talk being done by Fulmer and QBs before the season, the finger must point to the leader of the offense.

 

[mikey]

Originally posted by TJ_dap@Oct 3, 2005 1:03 PM
i am going to tell yall something...
now a days you have to throw the ball around because that is what these kids grow up doing in there back yard...
like my dad told me that he played back yard football and that they only threw the ball on third and long...
i play backyard football and we throw the ball to the fastest guy and to the guys that can catch...

we dont run at all... unless the guy has wheels and then we might pitch it out of the backfield once in a while...

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Yeah...kids in the backyard have a lot to do with calling a college game :crazy: ...you win by running...period.

 

[mikey]

Originally posted by volinbham@Oct 3, 2005 12:59 PM
The concerns I have include our decline in the running game - total yards and the running plays (the motion across the line) don't match up to what I've come to expect from the vols over the last 10 years or so.

Again...let the line get healthy

 

[volbrian]

Originally posted by mikey@Oct 3, 2005 9:50 PM
Yeah...kids in the backyard have a lot to do with calling a college game  :crazy:  ...you win by running...period.

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Good point. Its the reason they call it "ORGANIZED" football.

 

[GAVol]

Originally posted by mikey@Oct 3, 2005 10:50 PM
Yeah...kids in the backyard have a lot to do with calling a college game  :crazy:  ...you win by running...period.

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I usually run the Flexbone or Option I in my backyard games, how about you Mikey? :tease2:

Using backyard football as a basis for analysis is bad even for a Randy Sanders thread. lol:

 

[mikey]

Originally posted by GAVol@Oct 3, 2005 10:07 PM
I usually run the Flexbone or Option I in my backyard games, how about you Mikey?  :tease2:

Using backyard football as a basis for analysis is bad even for a Randy Sanders thread.  lol:

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One of my buddies dad use to be all time QB and spot the ball with his beer can...maybe they should try that on Sat. Oh yeah...we used to play shirts and skins in b-ball..maybe the lady Vols would be up for a new look. :birgits_giggle: